I like nice headphones too, but... $550

[User.45]

I for one am a fan of salty fries. Beats feeds a craving that a specific audience desires. One person's too salty fries are another's bland boring wet sticks of potatoes. Beats addresses a market that others didn't well enough & they were amply rewarded. That shouldn't be the thing that irritates others. It's the thing that clearly demonstrates there are different strokes for different folks.

Well, it's sorta like addressing the weed market by selling oreganos. I don't care that much though, as everybody survived. Some headphones even look better now.

Some want and/or need neutral, some what bright or shiny, some will want broad or airy sound stages, others want artificially stimulated thumping bass.

Well, if you want that BASS, you're better off getting a snug closed HP with a large membrane and boost it slightly EQ if needed (even better cut everything else slightly if there's enough headroom for volume.

To each their own & their own spending.

Of course. But honestly, it's just empty marketing that Beats is great for Hiphop. Hip hop is generally so awfully mastered it's not even worth it to listen to it lossless. There are some exceptions like the Roots, or Beneath the Surface from GZA which I consider the gold standard of a hiphop album master. But in general, well, anything could do for the genre.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Of course. But honestly, it's just empty marketing that Beats is great for Hiphop. Hip hop is generally so awfully mastered it's not even worth it to listen to it lossless. There are some exceptions like the Roots, or Beneath the Surface from GZA which I consider the gold standard of a hiphop album master. But in general, well, anything could do for the genre.

I have to imagine as you've pointed out what Rap you listen to is the level of mix & master, just like any genre.

If you're a fan of the likes of Mad Lib or other DJs who are fond of their craft, there is enormous pride & quality in their mixes.

But as I said, for basic commercial product that Beats is marketed to, it does a basic commercial job.

From the vitriol I would read on forums when Beats were mentioned that seemed to sponsor aneurysms, it often feels like the complaints are lazy punching down. Like saying why buy a Kia Stinger or Hyundai whatever luxury model, Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti instead of a BMW or Mercedes or Jaguar? It's because you wanted to? Isn't that enough, no matter the difference in quality to whatever the price?

You spend your dollars on whatever makes your endorphins happy, even if it's a placebo.

 

[User.45]

I have to imagine as you've pointed out what Rap you listen to is the level of mix & master, just like any genre.

If you're a fan of the likes of Mad Lib or other DJs who are fond of their craft, there is enormous pride & quality in their mixes.

I like Madlib (at least used to I haven't heard his new stuff), but he never sounded great. Classic hiphop = MPC60, and its beauty is that it was really really dirty, 12bit and Lo-Fi. Or Wu-Tang's classics Triumph or C.R.E.A.M. they never sounded great in the classical sense. The best MPC60 remasters you'll hear is Dj Shadow's 1994 Entroducing.

But as I said, for basic commercial product that Beats is marketed to, it does a basic commercial job.

From the vitriol I would read on forums when Beats were mentioned that seemed to sponsor aneurysms, it often feels like the complaints are lazy punching down. Like saying why buy a Kia Stinger or Hyundai whatever luxury model, Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti instead of a BMW or Mercedes or Jaguar? It's because you wanted to? Isn't that enough, no matter the difference in quality to whatever the price?

You spend your dollars on whatever makes your endorphins happy, even if it's a placebo.

The analogy's pretty good. Beats is like the plastic version of Hummers (H2?!) sold at the price of a Mercedes. Usually the large Beats cans cost $200, Sennheiser's Momentums priced the same. I bought mine 7 years ago, changed the cable 3 times, but otherwise it's good as new.

(I agree the beats bashing is boring, but it's important to point out how many more options are that are way better bang for the buck).

 

[chengengaun]

The stars aligned today and I manage to acquire a pair of used Sennheiser HD-650 and JDS Labs EL II DAC and Amp for US$550. I hope that is a much more satisfactory solution than adding a pair of AirPods Max.

The senny HD6XX series are the best sounding open headphones I've used to date. The only drawback is that these are open headset so your noise floor will really be determined by the noise level of your environment. Your surroundings will also hear everything you're listening to so this headphone sorta loses it's magic if it's used in shared space.

Apogee Groove is a nice all in one DAC/amp solution that works on android Ios and macos. You can snatch it for <200.

Happy to report that I received the Sennheiser HD-650* and JDS Labs stack (I bought these earlier before your Apogee Groove recommendation) and boy, they sound really good. I don't really know the correct terminology in describing sound quality, but the first thing that struck me was the flatness of the sound profile; it's not especially heavy on treble or bass, just well balanced. Instrument separation is really good, and I can finally hear the pizzicato and distinctly recognise the double bass while other sections (e.g. bassoons) are playing, not having to imagine their presence or recall from memory. The performance is consistent across a wide dynamic range - from pianissimo all the way to fortissimo - so they are really well suited for orchestral music. I only dialled the volume to 10-15% so I wonder what will happen at higher level and it gets really loud.

The sensation of wearing a pair of open-back headphones feels a bit strange but I got used to it - just have to stop tapping my fingers. I installed the setup in a quiet room and the new MBP is silent (thankfully I replaced the Intel 16"), so it works well. I think the open design makes the sound more... expansive and lends it (spatial) volume. There is no 'spatial audio' head tracking but I think that might be advantageous in my case.

Oops, I've gone quite a ways off topic...

* The deal almost fell through; the seller had second thoughts and was unwilling to let it go!

 

[User.45]

Happy to report that I received the Sennheiser HD-650* and JDS Labs stack (I bought these earlier before your Apogee Groove recommendation) and boy, they sound really good. I don't really know the correct terminology in describing sound quality, but the first thing that struck me was the flatness of the sound profile; it's not especially heavy on treble or bass, just well balanced. Instrument separation is really good, and I can finally hear the pizzicato and distinctly recognise the double bass while other sections (e.g. bassoons) are playing, not having to imagine their presence or recall from memory. The performance is consistent across a wide dynamic range - from pianissimo all the way to fortissimo - so they are really well suited for orchestral music. I only dialled the volume to 10-15% so I wonder what will happen at higher level and it gets really loud.

The sensation of wearing a pair of open-back headphones feels a bit strange but I got used to it - just have to stop tapping my fingers. I installed the setup in a quiet room and the new MBP is silent (thankfully I replaced the Intel 16"), so it works well. I think the open design makes the sound more... expansive and lends it (spatial) volume. There is no 'spatial audio' head tracking but I think that might be advantageous in my case.

Oops, I've gone quite a ways off topic...

* The deal almost fell through; the seller had second thoughts and was unwilling to let it go!

Congrats, HD600/650/6XX is an engineering marvel. 20+ years, gimmicks came and went (we'll see if spatial audio's here to stay*) yet these headphones remained THE audiophile standard. The ridiculous thing about these is that the sound stage is so wide, you often catch yourself picking up small sounds and thinking it's coming from your surrounding and not the recording. You may even hear the musicians flip pages on their notation sheets. About the volume.... depending on one's needs, HD600s are enjoyable even without a dedicated amp, as long as you are not listening to subbass music (i.e. meaning frequencies persistently going below what an orchestra would produce). I'd love to hear your experience with the MBP's HP output in terms of volume etc.



*A sound engineer I used to work with always said that stereo music encodes a lot more space without the risk of phase cancellation that comes from 5.1 (8.2 whatever) setups that are short of perfect. Since headphones don't run this risk, they might be a good exception.

 

[chengengaun]

Congrats, HD600/650/6XX is an engineering marvel. 20+ years, gimmicks came and went (we'll see if spatial audio's here to stay*) yet these headphones remained THE audiophile standard. The ridiculous thing about these is that the sound stage is so wide, you often catch yourself picking up small sounds and thinking it's coming from your surrounding and not the recording. You may even hear the musicians flip pages on their notation sheets. About the volume.... depending on one's needs, HD600s are enjoyable even without a dedicated amp, as long as you are not listening to subbass music (i.e. meaning frequencies persistently going below what an orchestra would produce). I'd love to hear your experience with the MBP's HP output in terms of volume etc.



*A sound engineer I used to work with always said that stereo music encodes a lot more space without the risk of phase cancellation that comes from 5.1 (8.2 whatever) setups that are short of perfect. Since headphones don't run this risk, they might be a good exception.

Soundstage - yes, that's what I referred to by "more 'spatial' volume" (TIL). Yesterday I listened to Glenn Gould's recording of Goldberg Variations because I remember he hummed during the recording session. I might have heard some faint humming - but it could also be my mind playing tricks on me!

The MBP drives the HD-650 well; I usually set it to 4-5 clicks from zero, which I think is not very different from other headphones. Nonetheless, the external DAC/amp still offers superior clarity; the MBP is good in a pinch, and perfectly adequate for easy listening/pop music.

 

[Edd]

Got the Powerbeats Pro yesterday and took them for a spin on the Peloton today. They were “free” because I had Best Buy gift cards to use. These are a two year old design, originally retailed for $249 and now $179. Bulky case, and as far as I can tell, you need the case to pair to a new device, which annoys me.

But, the sound seems better than my Powerbeats 3 (not truly wireless). Physical design is excellent for working out, nearly impossible to knock out of your ears.