No, for the love of God, No!

[SuperMatt]

Biden ran on it. Manchin didn't. So why should Manchin have to support Biden's agenda simply because he has a D beside his name?

If one puts the D next to their name, they get the support of the party. While not required, if one wants to keep receiving such support, they might want to consider their actions. If he supports nothing that the Democratic Party stands for, putting the D next to his name is plainly dishonest.

There are sometimes disagreements within a party, but there should be an ability to negotiate in good faith, at least within your own party. Manchin has now admitted that he was never going to agree to BBB and had been stringing everybody along for months. He seems to think the D next to his name stands for “Dick” since that’s what he is being.

The stupid thing is that if he ACTUALLY wanted to pass his own agenda, he probably could have written the bill himself and gotten it. Instead, he screwed over his colleagues and has greatly decreased the chances of 2022 success for the Democrats. If Republicans take over both houses in 2022, Manchin will be completely out of the spotlight, and without a single ally in his own party. I hope it was worth it for being on the front page almost every day for a few months.

Even “me first” Ted Cruz sometimes will work WITH his party. How terrible is somebody when they make Cruz look somewhat reasonable?

 

[Edd]

We need someone young(er), sharp as a tack, and liberal to appeal to the masses if such a thing exists and is possible at this point in our decline. Here is the thing, if our option is a vote for Hillary or the typical Right Wing Ass Hat, who would be the better choice?

Hillary. Or a sock puppet. Or any inanimate object.

 

[Huntn]

Biden ran on it. Manchin didn't. So why should Manchin have to support Biden's agenda simply because he has a D beside his name?

Because it is the Democratic, relatively liberal agenda and he claims to be a Democrat. Political parties exist because of like minded views. It is vital for their party that this legislation be passed, or there will be a chorus of do nothing Democrats coming ironically from the Right.

I suspect this man rode to elected office wearing a Democrat cloak because of Senator Byrd before him. Now that his cloak has been removed it will be for the Democrats of West Virginia to decide if they should continue to support the guy who undermined their party of choice’s agenda.

 

[rdrr]

The problem as I see it, is the Democrats don't have any upcoming stars that can change hearts and minds. They just keep rolling out the re-treads. I don't want to see another debate between 80 year olds...

 

[SuperMatt]

The problem as I see it, is the Democrats don't have any upcoming stars that can change hearts and minds. They just keep rolling out the re-treads. I don't want to see another debate between 80 year olds...

In the end, this comes down to the primary voters. There were young candidates in the 2020 primaries, but voters went with Biden (2nd place was Bernie).

If more young people voted, we’d see a big change. But most voters are old; it’s no surprise they pick old candidates.

 

[Huntn]

The problem as I see it, is the Democrats don't have any upcoming stars that can change hearts and minds. They just keep rolling out the re-treads. I don't want to see another debate between 80 year olds...

And Republicans, I’ll just mention, offer a pack of uninspiring, thinly transparent liars, imbeciles, crooks, immoral cheats, anti-Democratic and pro leaning-fascists. Oh for the latter, it’s in there dieing to get out, as they are already orchestrating the subversion of election results, and this bull shit about sueing teachers for teaching real history, is not nearly as low as they can go. When all else fails, expect their favorite, the 2A solution, and be sure to buy your gun now and stock up before the revolution starts.

Btw there are some good young Democrats out there, I like Buttigieg and Beto.

 

[rdrr]

And Republicans, I’ll just mention, offer a pack of uninspiring, thinly transparent liars, imbeciles, crooks, immoral cheats, anti-Democratic and pro leaning-fascists. Oh for the latter, it’s in there dieing to get out, as they are already orchestrating the subversion of election results, and this bull shit about sueing teachers for teaching real history, is not nearly as low as they can go. When all else fails, expect their favorite, the 2A solution, and be sure to buy your gun now and stock up before the revolution starts.

Btw there are some good young Democrats out there, I like Buttigieg and Beto.

Honestly I liked Buttigieg, I voted and supported him in the primaries. But if you want to be honest, his past policies as Mayor make him a long shot. Maybe the current stint at DOT will sanitize some of his past record. The biggest problem with him... is addressing the elephant in the room, America still has a homophobic problem.

I don't know much of Beto, other than he seems like one big PR stunt. A lot of "look at me" and not a lot of sustenance.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Honestly I liked Buttigieg, I voted and supported him in the primaries. But if you want to be honest, his past policies as Mayor make him a long shot. Maybe the current stint at DOT will sanitize some of his past record. The biggest problem with him... is addressing the elephant in the room, America still has a homophobic problem.

I’ll have to do some research, but within the progressive sources I follow they tend to see Buttigieg as another establishment tool masked by the fact that he is gay. I’m not saying he plays the gay card. I’m saying some left leaning voters turn a blind eye to divergence from left values and policies because “Our first black/gay/female etc. President!” This also of course gives the -aphobe heavy voter base on the right an easy target. It becomes a huge unwelcome distraction.

I also believe with Obama and any other "our first!" Presidents there is an element of not wanting to rock the boat too much and potentially ruining it for any potential "our second!". I think Obama was fairly successful in that regard. There will always be racists but you can't really point to anything he did that could be seen as him unfairly giving advantages to black people.

 

[Herdfan]

I suspect this man rode to elected office wearing a Democrat cloak because of Senator Byrd before him. Now that his cloak has been removed it will be for the Democrats of West Virginia to decide if they should continue to support the guy who undermined their party of choice’s agenda.

His family have been Democrats for decades. His uncle was SOS for much of my childhood. Back then being a D, no matter what your actual politics were, was key to being elected to statewide office*. So you could have been a strict conservative, but if you had a D and supported the unions, you were good to go.


* Except for Governor for some reason.

 

[Herdfan]

I don't know much of Beto, other than he seems like one big PR stunt. A lot of "look at me" and not a lot of sustenance.

His stance on taking guns away will not help him.

 

[Herdfan]

In the end, this comes down to the primary voters. There were young candidates in the 2020 primaries, but voters went with Biden (2nd place was Bernie).

If more young people voted, we’d see a big change. But most voters are old; it’s no surprise they pick old candidates.

On the surface this makes perfect sense. Until you realize it was younger voters who supported Bernie.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

His family have been Democrats for decades. His uncle was SOS for much of my childhood. Back then being a D, no matter what your actual politics were, was key to being elected to statewide office*. So you could have been a strict conservative, but if you had a D and supported the unions, you were good to go.


* Except for Governor for some reason.

That's interesting. So while Manchin looks like a big disappointment and hypocrite on the national stage, inside the state they've just accepted this as normal.

I know you've said you've approved of his performance for most of his political career, but how do you account for the state being towards the bottom or at rock bottom of nearly every quality of life metric? Are the people just institutionally fine with that? Is it a pride thing, like some "We're good salt of the earth people and that's all that matters. Our struggles and suffering only makes us stronger."?

 

[Deleted member 215]

West Virginia may be the last state where the Democratic Party still has a conservative wing.

Not sure if the Republicans’ progressive wing still exists anywhere…

 

[SuperMatt]

On the surface this makes perfect sense. Until you realize it was younger voters who supported Bernie.

That’s what he wants everybody to believe.

You’re not the only one tricked by the “Bernie drives young people to turn out and vote” narrative.

What voting patterns tell us about Sanders’ turnout strategy

Bernie Sanders has staked his presidential candidacy on expanding voter turnout. "The key to this election is, can we ge

www.politifact.com

And in the South Carolina primary, a Washington Post analysis found that the most pronounced increases came in precincts that had the most registered voters over 64 years old. In those precincts, turnout almost doubled, although turnout also rose across younger precincts.

McDonald said the evidence suggests that Sanders is not "delivering the turnout revolution he promises."

The early indications from the Super Tuesday states back up this assessment. In fact, youth turnout fell as a share of all voters in every state for which there is comparable exit poll data for 2016 and 2020.

If the Democrats found a way to get most people 18-29 to actually register and vote, they’d dominate. Sanders promised that, but didn’t deliver. Obama increased youth voting turnout only 10% and it was enough to win twice. Biden won due to high youth turnout (53% is low, but it’s high compared to how many young people usually vote). Imagine a candidate that really got youth excited and out to the polls. Democrats would win by a landslide.

Untitled infographic by PolitiFact - Infogram

infogram.com

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

That’s what he wants everybody to believe.

You’re not the only one tricked by the “Bernie drives young people to turn out and vote” narrative.

What voting patterns tell us about Sanders’ turnout strategy

Bernie Sanders has staked his presidential candidacy on expanding voter turnout. "The key to this election is, can we ge

www.politifact.com

If the Democrats found a way to get most people 18-29 to actually register and vote, they’d dominate. Sanders promised that, but didn’t deliver. Obama increased youth voting turnout only 10% and it was enough to win twice. Biden won due to high youth turnout (53% is low, but it’s high compared to how many young people usually vote). Imagine a candidate that really got youth excited and out to the polls. Democrats would win by a landslide.

Untitled infographic by PolitiFact - Infogram

infogram.com

But I thought Biden won because a 1,300% turnout increase of illegals and dead people. Also let's not forget handing out water bottles to people standing in line at the polls means they'll automatically vote Democrat even if they were originally planning to vote Republican. There's a huge percentage of single issue water bottle voters.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Her time has come and gone. Hillary attacks don’t ring the same when they come from Trump supporters though.