Nuvia: don’t hold your breath

[leman]

Hey @RockRock8, appreciate your reply. I’m a bit confused about what you are saying about me being an asshole (not that I disagree), AI, and some other stuff, since I don’t believe that we have ever interacted on these boards. Maybe I am misremembering things, or maybe you took me for someone else? Anyway.

As I said, it’s great that you are enthusiastic and passionate about Apple, and it’s very much appreciated. And while I can’t speak for others, I personally am always happy to exchange with new interesting people. All I’m asking for is some decorum and, if possible, less sensationalism. Your positive attitude is not what’s under criticism.

 

[RockRock8]

Hey @RockRock8, appreciate your reply. I’m a bit confused about what you are saying about me being an asshole (not that I disagree), AI, and some other stuff, since I don’t believe that we have ever interacted on these boards. Maybe I am misremembering things, or maybe you took me for someone else? Anyway.

As I said, it’s great that you are enthusiastic and passionate about Apple, and it’s very much appreciated. And while I can’t speak for others, I personally am always happy to exchange with new interesting people. All I’m asking for is some decorum and, if possible, less sensationalism. Your positivism is not what’s under criticism.

As I mentioned I didn't want to discuss, but since you specifically asked what my feedback was for you, I want to reply because that's encouraging to me.

The comment was a catch-all directed to all people I've found either directly criticized me or have shown me a cold shoulder in discussions. So no, not every single thing literally applies to you, although the specific comment about "subtweeting" for lack of a better phrase was to you specifically, even if others have done it as well. When I start off by replying to @NotEntirelyConfused and mention that I don't think Mellanox will be used etc, and that Apple will -- in my own opinion -- continue using Thunderbolt, you specifically said "Thunderbolt is cute but it's not really the type of thing for servers."

Yes, well, no. To make sure I understood if that was some sort of veiled critique of my knowledge, I directly asked if you were referring to my comment and you ignored it, despite repeatedly interacting with that thread. So there was plenty of chance to have seen it, remembered it, and responded to it. It's a forum, not a chatbot session. While I can't be sure, the only conclusion I could reasonably walk away with was I was being criticized without literally being named. And for a brief summary of that, Apple actually *does* use Thunderbolt in cloud servers to connect them together, ironically. And you didn't know that. And I didn't know that. In fact I only found that out when writing the last comment on that post.

You also "like" (and I cringe at the idea that it matters on my end at all) comments that directly criticize my posts (and those critiques without merit). Given both of those plus your complete non-interaction with my content otherwise, I could only reasonably surmise you were intentionally ignoring and agreed with all criticism of my comments. Given your impassioned reply for what honestly should have been ignored on your part, I take my opinion of what you think about my comments is probably unfortunately true. I say unfortunately because I actually have liked stuff you've written for awhile, and I read it enthusiastically

For your "criticism of your comments aren't because they're positive," well actually that's just a blatant falsehood. They are indeed because they are positive. Multiple people have directly said written that they don't like my fanboyish attitude towards things, or that I am a robot on positive posts, or whatever, and I've said repeatedly that doesn't matter. @Cmaier tells you guys to knock it off repeatedly. I'm allowed to be a fanboy of things I perceive as cool. Please don't bother on this point. The comments (up until the point some were accidentally spam cleaned along with some of my comments) are on here and have been read and ironically to your point even liked by you on some of them, but mostly other people liking them.

 

[leman]

The comment was a catch-all directed to all people I've found either directly criticized me or have shown me a cold shoulder in discussions. So no, not every single thing literally applies to you, although the specific comment about "subtweeting" for lack of a better phrase was to you specifically, even if others have done it as well. When I start off by replying to @NotEntirelyConfused and mention that I don't think Mellanox will be used etc, and that Apple will -- in my own opinion -- continue using Thunderbolt, you specifically said "Thunderbolt is cute but it's not really the type of thing for servers."

Ah, I see, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Just to be clear, I was indeed merely replying to NotEntirelyConfused in that thread and no veiled criticism was intended towards your posts. Sorry that I didn't clear it up back then, I'm going though a rather complex phase of my life, and my attention span was not at it's best these last few months (or longer). And if I don't directly reply to your other posts, it is often simply because I don't have anything much to say on that particular topic.

Regarding the rest, I believe that being positive and being sensationalist is not the same thing. What I really like about techboards is the welcoming and positive attitude of its members, I feel that everyone has a voice here and that differing opinions are treaded graciously and with respect. And I'd like to see this aspect of this community preserved, which means that we need to be mindful how our voice and our tone affect others. I feel that sensationalism and repeated derision towards others (be it Gurman, the ever popular punching bag, or anyone/anything else**) do not contribute constructively. Surely it should be possible to share our passion and interests without resorting to such rhetorics. Btw, I'm happy to continue this conversation in private if you want, it's probably not the best use of the thread space.

**Except windows and HP, f**ck those guys.

 

[RockRock8]

Ah, I see, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Just to be clear, I was indeed merely replying to NotEntirelyConfused in that thread and no veiled criticism was intended towards your posts. Sorry that I didn't clear it up back then, I'm going though a rather complex phase of my life, and my attention span was not at it's best these last few months (or longer). And if I don't directly reply to your other posts, it is often simply because I don't have anything much to say on that particular topic.

Regarding the rest, I believe that being positive and being sensationalist is not the same thing. What I really like about techboards is the welcoming and positive attitude of its members, I feel that everyone has a voice here and that differing opinions are treaded graciously and with respect. And I'd like to see this aspect of this community preserved, which means that we need to be mindful how our voice and our tone affect others. I feel that sensationalism and repeated derision towards others (be it Gurman, the ever popular punching bag, or anyone else) do not contribute constructively. Surely it should be possible to share our passion and interests without resorting to such rhetorics. Btw, I'm happy to continue this conversation in private if you want, it's probably not the best use of the thread space.

I appreciate the clarification on your end. Indeed, I can't speak to you personally, but there are so many problems in the world, and so many stresses. I come not only to talk about Apple but to be able to be a fan of them without being criticized on that point. What may have been for you a criticism of me not meant to blow up like this, honestly kind of sent me over the edge.

I've elaborated in my previous reply why it wasn't *just* the lack of reply. It was the lack of reply, *and* the fact that you like comments directly critiquing me, *and* not engaging at all with me otherwise, *and* the only time you actually engaging with me being this specifically. But I don't know you, and only you know what you were truly thinking and feeling. Both because I'm going to believe you, and because I've already made it clear I've been planning to stop commenting since I started commenting practically, I am going to take your word for it. And I do sincerely hope you feel better, and I do sincerely hope the problems and weirdness you're going through ends. I know what that's like.

As I've said in previous replies, which I'll reiterate, I come here fora few reasons. First is to read stuff people write. Whether I agree with opinions said about a specific Apple technology or feature or not, or whether I even understand the analysis, I still want to read what people here said about Apple. Second (and third and fourth), I write here my comments: I make criticism of tech sites and bloggers I am losing faith in, and I wrote what I wish or would have seen places like AppleInsider write if they behaved without negative clickbait. I don't think I need to state my purpose every time I comment. Either what I write is informative or a home run for you, or it isn't. You either walk away knowing a different perspective, or you don't

What you may perceive as curation for quality is to outsiders like myself curation of what you personally want to read and see. The fact is I am allowed to make any comment within reason about any topic about Apple. You of course can respond. But when clearly satirical comments like my comment about Gurman when he said Siri will be a chatbot was met with a response of "you need to calm down no one is defending Gurman," when in fact I never even implied that, this curation really has nothing to do with quality anymore. It's an in group mentality trying to socially sort who is who here, and with respect, you guys have all known each other for a long time. Any new person, temporary or permanent members of this forum, is going to be jarring. But that doesn't mean that extends to being tribalistic and having 7 total members either directly writing comments that @Cmaier explicitly tells you not to write, or giving me the cold shoulder. There is an outside judge of this giving pause to say, "those comments aren't what we should be saying."

I've tried so hard to be nice, even if I disagree. And I honestly wish I had not written all of this and just ignored it and then let it fade as I said I was going to. But because I'm tired, stressed, or just fed up with this crap, I said this. It may be long, passionate, or whatever, but I've felt it for almost the entire time I've been commenting in this account. I really hope you open up to new people in future on Apple discussions, and if you don't, that you take the advice of privating this forum or just simply creating a group chat and adding who you want in. It leads to less confusion on new people who may use this forum for a different reason than you regarding Apple/tech

I appreciate the continuation of the thread via private message, but this is something generally speaking needed to be said to multiple members and I'm sorry but I just couldn't not write it. I've written what I hope is feedback you'll at least take time to consider.

 

[casperes1996]

Hey, thanks for the comment. I'll say I think that is taking this too seriously still, and this is a small forum. I appreciate you guys have previous group discussions and a tight knit community, but please open yourselves to outside people. While you may come here to show off your knowledge and get affirmation from fellow members you have respect for, others come here to discuss and show an alternate side of discussions about topics. Specifically I only comment about Apple here and that's it, and I was under the impression people actually were fans of Apple. While that doesn't mean everyone agrees or engages with my comments, even the slightest bit of positivity across any of my other posts has been criticized even if it is justified

@Cmaier has repeatedly said to both of you and others that if you really don't like a member, just ignore them. I've demonstrated clear analytical ability, especially in threads like RDMA over Thunderbolt, which to be frank was -- aside from my justified enthusiasm -- about the only actual substantive analysis and fact based comments aside from the announcements themselves and some short reposts of speeds.

I was only ever planning to stay for a few comments, even though I've long read this website and appreciated yours and others comments and analysis. But you guys are pretty shut off to new people, and I encourage you to open yourselves to new stuff. I never wanted to cause specific drama with anyone here, as I've I said I actually enjoy reading stuff you and others write, but let's be clear about something. There is a certain tribalism to this forum that shuns outsiders and outside thinkjng

For whatever reason, you, @mr_roboto and others have this really anti-"AI" attitude, and you know what, the funny thing is that I don't like "AI" either! Pay close attention to what I say and how I write it.
But analysis of stuff like RDMA over Thunderbolt, what it means both for the user and technologically, and for future stuff like Siri warrants serious if not enthusiastic discussion.

It's okay to be positive about stuff. It's okay to disagree with a feature like Chatbots while recognizing the technological breakthrough stuff like RDMA over Thunderbolt is. The fact is, for as much you all do know about stuff, there's a lot of stuff you just don't know. Like how USB 4 -- or Thunderbolt -- is actually used to connect Ensembles of PCC servers to fulfill requests. Yet you clearly, for lack of a better phrase, subtweeted me trying to criticize me like I'm inept or something in that thread.

And while you may have good intentions, the follow through isn't in my experience. This tribalistic mentality combined with the need to boost self esteem through discussion on technology to get recognition on how intelligent you may be in one area of technology really just lends itself to non-productive behavior. Both of you and multiple others (@Jimmyjames @Altaic @exoticspice1 @NotEntirelyConfused ) have been repeatedly warned by @Cmaier for, being blunt, kind of asshole-ish. There's a reason for that. You guys are kind of being asshole-ish.

I was already planning to leave around the time I started commenting because I only ever made this account to comment on the nonsense Gurman wrote. I was literally not going to comment anymore past today and leave in a week or so, just sort of letting the conversations naturally fade so I don't cause drama or bring attention to it

But the fact is no one is saying this to you guys. You guys need to stop the tribal stuff. And you may not even recognize you're doing it, but it's happening, and I don't appreciate it. New members don't appreciate it. The majority of people here are coming from MacRumors, which as I've understood it is at least interested if not outright fans of Apple. I like writing, and while sometimes it may fall flat, I at least always try to be clever and write stuff no one else has. I try anyways

I appreciate the feedback you gave, so I hope you and others appreciate this feedback in return. I'm serious. Had I not already been planning to leave from the moment I made this account I honestly would have felt so discouraged by you guys. What you have in tech knowledge you lack in discussion ability, outside of your in group. And as I've said to @Cmaier, this forum can be closed to outsiders. That's okay, but if you're going to operate anyways as a text message group chat, you may as well literally make a text message group chat

I come here not to convince but to find others that I perceived, perhaps incorrectly, as not hostile to being a fan of Apple. I try to be clever with English and rhetoric. I make criticism of tech sites and bloggers I am losing faith in, and I wrote what I wish or would have seen places like AppleInsider write if they behaved without negative clickbait. I don't think I need to state my purpose every time I comment. Either what I write is informative or a home run for you, or it isn't. You either walk away knowing a different perspective, or you don't

If the biggest problem someone has, as I've had nearly 7 different people critique my comments for specifically aside from this one, is that I'm too positive about stuff I find cool, then that reflects more on others than it does me.

I hope this message finds you well, and I hope you take what I say into consideration. This isn't a discussion on my end. This will be my last comment, and I really hope you take the criticism for other new members who may join

I really don’t see where you’re coming from with this. What was being responded to was an acknowledgement of the achievements of apples chip design teams of the past and the accomplishment of Apple silicon. I think the vast majority of us here care a great deal about Apple and in this case someone defended the engineers behind early Apple silicon from your insults.


This is small forum where the regulars know each other. In my opinion it’s still welcoming enough to newcomers but if there is something that we can do to be better at creating a warm and welcoming atmosphere I would be happy to take constructive feedback. But I don’t know how to improve from the feedback given. I don’t see the tribalism and I don’t see people daring you’re not allowed to be excited. In fact I share the excitement. I don’t care much for generative AI but I am thrilled we got RDMA over thunderbolt. Everyone is however entitled to an opinion on how impactful that’s going to be and while it’s a super cool feature I agree with others that it’s quite niche.

All of this is quite off topic though. I hope we can avoid ad-hominem too much. It’s okay to disagree but as Leman encouraged keep it classy and respectful.

 

[RockRock8]

really don’t see where you’re coming from with this. What was being responded to was an acknowledgement of the achievements of apples chip design teams of the past and the accomplishment of Apple silicon. I think the vast majority of us here care a great deal about Apple and in this case someone defended the engineers behind early Apple silicon from your insults.

Because you're responding within the context of this thread while I'm responding within the context of my entire time commenting on this account across multiple topics.

it's the very issue of classy and respectfulness that I'm taking issue with from other members and how they've treated me. You aren't one of the people, so for better or worse there is little need to reiterate your point. I've already said I've taken the feedback, and I've given feedback in return to specific people. Although ironically your comment is just sort of proving my point: the tribal gang up on people outside of the in group is prevalent. You're the third person to mention "classy and respectfulness," while ignoring my entire comment and searchable posts demonstrating why this is, respectfully, hypocritical. I'm allowed to post direct criticism of public people like Gerard Williams. I've been classy and respectful to all here, thanks.

People change, temporarily or permanently. Just because someone once contributed something great or behaved within a certain expectation doesn't mean they will. This really isn't a discussion I wish to have, as I've said I only followed up with @leman to clarify since I did specifically mention him. But Jony Ive, for example, once heralded and held the values Apple holds dear. And while I don't criticize his work at Apple, I do criticize what he has become for the moment. Someone that close and so involved with the DNA of a company and team like Apple quite literally just betraying all of it for $6.5 billion and acting so out of character I could write an entire essay on it. I have the right to not be happy with what certain people do. If I personally think it's shitty of Gerard to do what he did in the way I perceived it, then I'm allowed to think that. And I am allowed to say that. He isn't part of this forum, as far as I know. And your criticisms of my literal 2 sentence joke completely misses what my point was. It's all actually quite irritating, and so you can surely appreciate that I'm being classy and respectful by not taking this moment to say specific things against people other than giving feedback

 

[casperes1996]

Because you're responding within the context of this thread while I'm responding within the context of my entire time commenting on this account across multiple topics.

it's the very issue of classy and respectfulness that I'm taking issue with from other members and how they've treated me. You aren't one of the people, so for better or worse there is little need to reiterate your point. I've already said I've taken the feedback, and I've given feedback in return to specific people. Although ironically your comment is just sort of proving my point: the tribal gang up on people outside of the in group is prevalent. You're the third person to mention "classy and respectfulness," while ignoring my entire comment and searchable posts demonstrating why this is, respectfully, hypocritical. I'm allowed to post direct criticism of public people like Gerard Williams. I've been classy and respectful to all here, thanks.

To not clutter the thread this will be my last comment on the matter here.

I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience here. I don’t think it’s fair to expect people to know the wider context of all your posts and keeping that in mind when talking in a specific thread without all that context directly present. While I recognize a lot of people here I remember close to 0% of who has said what in threads other than what I’m currently reading and I’d wager a guess most feel the same.

As far as I’m concerned the respectfulness naturally should extend to you too.

 

[RockRock8]

I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience here. I don’t think it’s fair to expect people to know the wider context of all your posts and keeping that in mind when talking in a specific thread without all that context directly present. While

I never expected you to. And I provided enough context for the people I specifically tagged. Please, let it be. I'm really tired of this entire situation now. I only ask consideration of feedback, which was general and everyone should think about

Last thing I'll say. I've written a plethora of high quality, insightful, analytical comments that provided knowledge no one else here had. Those comments were ignored. About the only time I actually get responses is when a comment is negatively perceived. While I don't expect engagement on all of my comments, the feedback for "classy" and "respectful" falls flat when my high quality comments are constantly ignored in favor of comments posted by regular members. You can't expect people to continually post high quality things if you never acknowledge it, and you can't expect people to not be upset if you characterize their comments as all same 2 liner sarcastic comments. It falls flat.

I'll leave you with this. This post really sums up a lot of the underlying philosophical questions with all of this. I hope all of you will visit this post below, read all of it and my response to the post, deeply think about this heavily and what parallels there are. Thanks for reading

R

Thread 'Apple releases beautiful and simple video about human creativity in media'

Tuesday at 2:09 PM

Apple released a beautiful and simple video showing photography of human actors and TV/movie crew members. This comes after Apple purportedly signed a deal for a major fantasy series, giving full creative control to Brandon Sanderson. In a time where companies like Netflix are constantly pumping out content 24/7 with the explicit goal of "restating plot points 3 or 4 times," because no one is actually watching the content, only scrolling social media, and giving up creativity to diffusion based machine learning algorithms; Apple TV stands out as the only and best place...

• RockRock8
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Apple

 

[Cmaier]

@RockRock8: it's great to be enthusiastic abut Apple and technology, but let's not overdo it. We want to keep this place classy and thought-provoking.

Well… thought-provoking, yes. Classy? Shoulda thought of that before I was invited to join this place.

 

[Cmaier]

By the way, this thread started in Nov. 2021. So we’re in year 5. Has Qualcomm surpassed Apple yet? Need to know if I can exhale.

 

[casperes1996]

By the way, this thread started in Nov. 2021. So we’re in year 5. Has Qualcomm surpassed Apple yet? Need to know if I can exhale.

Hehe, the title told you not to hold your breath!

Jest aside though, I do think what's come out of Qualcomm is interesting. It doesn't put a gun to Apple's head, and frankly it was never going to realistically threaten them, but it does add competition to the general PC space. It pushes ARM on Windows and even ARM on Linux to a wider audience and puts more development resources into the software ecosystem for those platforms, and while not surpassing Apple, the Snapdragon X Elite chips are still good chips with different characteristics and strengths to the competing laptops in the market. The PC market is healthier with them existing and they're good products. Even if I disagree with marketting strategies at times, but that's the case for all companies.

 

[Cmaier]

Hehe, the title told you not to hold your breath!

Jest aside though, I do think what's come out of Qualcomm is interesting. It doesn't put a gun to Apple's head, and frankly it was never going to realistically threaten them, but it does add competition to the general PC space. It pushes ARM on Windows and even ARM on Linux to a wider audience and puts more development resources into the software ecosystem for those platforms, and while not surpassing Apple, the Snapdragon X Elite chips are still good chips with different characteristics and strengths to the competing laptops in the market. The PC market is healthier with them existing and they're good products. Even if I disagree with marketting strategies at times, but that's the case for all companies.

I agree.

But to put the thread in context, we have to remember that, at the time this started, Nuvia was being heralded as “Apple killers” and there were claims that they were going to surpass Apple (though it was never clear if they meant “beat what Apple currently has,” or “beat what Apple will have at the time Nuvia’s chip actually comes out.” At various times Nuvia and Qualcomm expressly stated such things, too.

If they had stuck to “we’re going to beat Intel,” this thread would never have been started.

 

[casperes1996]

I agree.

But to put the thread in context, we have to remember that, at the time this started, Nuvia was being heralded as “Apple killers” and there were claims that they were going to surpass Apple (though it was never clear if they meant “beat what Apple currently has,” or “beat what Apple will have at the time Nuvia’s chip actually comes out.” At various times Nuvia and Qualcomm expressly stated such things, too.

If they had stuck to “we’re going to beat Intel,” this thread would never have been started.

Yep. That's what I meant with not agreeing with the marketting strategy. It really rarely pays off to over-hype something beyond what it'll realistically achieve. It gets people talking but it also leaves people underwhelmed. Promising something realistic or even slightly below what you'll deliver, and then actually following through with it, IMO, is a much better strategy, especially when you actually have something good to deliver

 

[Cmaier]

Yep. That's what I meant with not agreeing with the marketting strategy. It really rarely pays off to over-hype something beyond what it'll realistically achieve. It gets people talking but it also leaves people underwhelmed. Promising something realistic or even slightly below what you'll deliver, and then actually following through with it, IMO, is a much better strategy, especially when you actually have something good to deliver

When i was an engineer we called it “sandbagging.” Promise less than you know you can achieve, then deliver more than you promise.

 

[leman]

By the way, this thread started in Nov. 2021. So we’re in year 5. Has Qualcomm surpassed Apple yet? Need to know if I can exhale.

I think Qualcomm execs might have fallen into the popular trap of "let's do what Apple does" without considering the context. Their Android chips were already the best, and Oryon didn't change that. Their bet on making PC hardware didn't really pay off due to the nature of the Windows ecosystem. Interestingly enough, Nuvia's original goal — making server chips, might have actually been a better bet, of course with the caveat that people mostly care about AI nowadays and Nuvia tech does not solve that.

But to put the thread in context, we have to remember that, at the time this started, Nuvia was being heralded as “Apple killers” and there were claims that they were going to surpass Apple (though it was never clear if they meant “beat what Apple currently has,” or “beat what Apple will have at the time Nuvia’s chip actually comes out.” At various times Nuvia and Qualcomm expressly stated such things, too.

Oh, well, Apple is polarizing, nothing new about that. Entire careers and even industries are built on bashing Apple

 

[dada_dave]

I think Qualcomm execs might have fallen into the popular trap of "let's do what Apple does" without considering the context. Their Android chips were already the best, and Oryon didn't change that. Their bet on making PC hardware didn't really pay off due to the nature of the Windows ecosystem. Interestingly enough, Nuvia's original goal — making server chips, might have actually been a better bet, of course with the caveat that people mostly care about AI nowadays and Nuvia tech does not solve that.



Oh, well, Apple is polarizing, nothing new about that. Entire careers and even industries are built on bashing Apple

I think Windows on Arm could still work, marathon not a sprint and all that. But I'll be the first to state that Nuvia's first version was late, the GPU let it down, and MS wasn't on the ball. Let's see how it goes with Nvidia and Qualcomm's next attempts ...

 

[NotEntirelyConfused]

When i was an engineer we called it “sandbagging.” Promise less than you know you can achieve, then deliver more than you promise.

That term is in fairly wide use, not just in engineering.

Interestingly enough, Nuvia's original goal — making server chips, might have actually been a better bet, of course with the caveat that people mostly care about AI nowadays and Nuvia tech does not solve that.

The AI revolution still needs CPUs, and there would have been opportunities there. For example, nVidia could have gone to them instead of Mediatek... though they'd have to be less greedy to get that deal, and for Qualcomm that's a big challenge.

Nuvia's first version was late, the GPU let it down, and MS wasn't on the ball

All true, but they had a window before LNL shipped, despite being late, and the GPU only matters to certain segments of the market.
In the end what screwed them most was their pricing, but MS issues that shouldn't have existed were a factor too.

While there were only a few months between when SXE and LNL shipped, they could have built a LOT of momentum in that time. They (and MS) screwed it up, and they lost the first-mover advantage (in this case, of having a high-efficiency Windows laptop before the competition).

 

[Nycturne]

I think Windows on Arm could still work, marathon not a sprint and all that.

I’d be happy if Microsoft treated it as something more serious than a brisk walk…

 

[dada_dave]

That term is in fairly wide use, not just in engineering.


The AI revolution still needs CPUs, and there would have been opportunities there. For example, nVidia could have gone to them instead of Mediatek... though they'd have to be less greedy to get that deal, and for Qualcomm that's a big challenge.

Nvidia and Qualcomm really, really don’t like each other. That doesn’t always preclude a partnership of course but … it apparently got personal, especially as Qualcomm helped derail Nvidia’s bid to buy ARM.

All true, but they had a window before LNL shipped, despite being late, and the GPU only matters to certain segments of the market.
In the end what screwed them most was their pricing, but MS issues that shouldn't have existed were a factor too.

While there were only a few months between when SXE and LNL shipped, they could have built a LOT of momentum in that time. They (and MS) screwed it up, and they lost the first-mover advantage (in this case, of having a high-efficiency Windows laptop before the competition).

Aye that’s a good point about pricing too. The internal Dell documentation certainly indicated that the Snapdragon processors were less expensive than their x86 competitors to procure and could’ve undercut the X86 variants but whether the OEMs or Qualcomm were to blame for the pricing strategy is unclear. Sometimes people deliberately price things high because they don’t want to be relegated to bargain bin status in the minds of consumers.

 

[Cmaier]

Nvidia and Qualcomm really, really don’t like each other. That doesn’t always preclude a partnership of course but … it apparently got personal, especially as Qualcomm helped derail Nvidia’s bid to buy ARM.

Aye that’s a good point about pricing too. The internal Dell documentation certainly indicated that the Snapdragon processors were less expensive than their x86 competitors to procure and could’ve undercut the X86 variants but whether the OEMs or Qualcomm were to blame for the pricing strategy is unclear. Sometimes people deliberately price things high because they don’t want to be relegated to bargain bin status in the minds of consumers.

In my experience in the industry, the OEMs exert tremendous pressure on the CPU makers to lower prices, and the OEMs would be happy to buy from the cheapest source EXCEPT for where there is monopolistic behavior that prevents it. I don’t know the current state of Intel’s shenanigans, but it was pretty awful back in the day.