Roe vs. Wade overturned

[rdrr]

What I cannot believe and makes me question the Democrats ability to hold power, is when we Senator "I believe him" Collins was up for re-election, they couldn't take her seat. There is something wrong with the party's messaging or focus if they couldn't grab that seat.

 

[Huntn]

What I cannot believe and makes me question the Democrats ability to hold power, is when we Senator "I believe him" Collins was up for re-election, they couldn't take her seat. There is something wrong with the party's messaging or focus if they couldn't grab that seat.

The Democrats ability to hold power is directly related to average citizen expectations and intelligence. We have a LOT of stupid around these days. I understand the Dems message and their intent, but there is only so much that can be done to make stupid hear you. Make them get a shot to save their lives (based on science, not some manipulative Right Wing pundit) and they cry like ignorant fools, stomp their feet and scream, maybe even want to get their guns and right their imagined wrongs in Stupidville.

For average citizens who want affordable healthcare, reasonable wages, social safety nets, reign in the Corpotacracy, the Democrats/Liberals are a slam dunk, in fact they're the only entity that gives a damn about the welfare of average citizens. The corrupt Right Wing is playing the long con based on racism, xenophobia, LGBT issues, using false socialism/communism labels to scare the good ole boy dummies.

 

[Herdfan]

The Democrats ability to hold power is directly related to average citizen expectations and intelligence. We have a LOT of stupid around these days. I understand the Dems message and their intent, but there is only so much that can be done to make stupid hear you. Make them get a shot to save their lives (based on science, not some manipulative Right Wing pundit) and they cry like ignorant fools, stomp their feet and scream, maybe even want to get their guns and right their imagined wrongs in Stupidville.

For average citizens who want affordable healthcare, reasonable wages, social safety nets, reign in the Corpotacracy, the Democrats/Liberals are a slam dunk, in fact they're the only entity that gives a damn about the welfare of average citizens. The corrupt Right Wing is playing the long con based on racism, xenophobia, LGBT issues, using false socialism/communism labels to scare the good ole boy dummies.

The problem with your theory is that all those things you cite are not what the average American cares about right now. They may in the future, but right now they care about their wallets and how the prices of gas and groceries are rising.

DNyuz - Latest Breaking U.S. News

Latest Breaking News, U.S. and World Politics, Crime, Business, Science, Technology, Autos, Entertainment, Culture, Movie, Music, Sports.

dnyuz.com

 

[SuperMatt]

The problem with your theory is that all those things you cite are not what the average American cares about right now. They may in the future, but right now they care about their wallets and how the prices of gas and groceries are rising.

DNyuz - Latest Breaking U.S. News

Latest Breaking News, U.S. and World Politics, Crime, Business, Science, Technology, Autos, Entertainment, Culture, Movie, Music, Sports.

dnyuz.com

Average Americans don’t want reasonable wages and affordable health care? In that case, the GOP really IS the party for them.

 

[Herdfan]

Average Americans don’t want reasonable wages and affordable health care? In that case, the GOP really IS the party for them.

That isn't what I said or what the article said.

They may want those things, but their top concern is about rising prices. You know the ones Biden said are transitory only to be contradicted by his own Fed Chairman.

And contrary to what you may think, there are quite a few Americans who have good jobs and are happy with their healthcare.

As far as the article, the second concern was education. And not whether CRT is being taught or not being taught, but the population sees Dems being OK with schools being closed while they see the GOP fighting to keep them open.

 

[Huntn]

The problem with your theory is that all those things you cite are not what the average American cares about right now. They may in the future, but right now they care about their wallets and how the prices of gas and groceries are rising.

DNyuz - Latest Breaking U.S. News

Latest Breaking News, U.S. and World Politics, Crime, Business, Science, Technology, Autos, Entertainment, Culture, Movie, Music, Sports.

dnyuz.com

And we will deserve what we collectively choose and I will have no sympathy when stupid prevails, apropos. Did I mention many are completely short sided and snarl like caged dogs when prices go up, ignoring their chains, something that’s been in the works for 5 years, but they’ll turn on Biden and forget all about the long con.

 

[SuperMatt]

That isn't what I said or what the article said.

Hmm…

For average citizens who want affordable healthcare, reasonable wages, social safety nets, reign in the Corpotacracy, the Democrats/Liberals are a slam dunk, in fact they're the only entity that gives a damn about the welfare of average citizens.

The problem with your theory is that all those things you cite are not what the average American cares about right now.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

and with the facts. Too many quotables to quote, although I am rather fond of "star spangled boners".

 

[rdrr]

The Democrats ability to hold power is directly related to average citizen expectations and intelligence. We have a LOT of stupid around these days. I understand the Dems message and their intent, but there is only so much that can be done to make stupid hear you. Make them get a shot to save their lives (based on science, not some manipulative Right Wing pundit) and they cry like ignorant fools, stomp their feet and scream, maybe even want to get their guns and right their imagined wrongs in Stupidville.

For average citizens who want affordable healthcare, reasonable wages, social safety nets, reign in the Corpotacracy, the Democrats/Liberals are a slam dunk, in fact they're the only entity that gives a damn about the welfare of average citizens. The corrupt Right Wing is playing the long con based on racism, xenophobia, LGBT issues, using false socialism/communism labels to scare the good ole boy dummies.

That is why I said messaging. The Democrats cannot get their message across to the average person, or below average person. I wouldn't discount those votes, the Republicans haven't and that is where the Democrats are losing.

 

[Huntn]

That is why I said messaging. The Democrats cannot get their message across to the average person, or below average person. I wouldn't discount those votes, the Republicans haven't and that is where the Democrats are losing.

And maybe average and below average people get what they deserve, and in the process the country and our democracy gets buggered.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And maybe average and below average people get what they deserve, and in the process the country and our democracy gets buggered.

I keep hearing that Republican politicians are being cowards when faced with the more extreme or ignorant elements of their base, but I’m starting to think maybe they are representing those people appropriately. There’s not some politician academy they have to graduate from before they can take office. There’s no law saying they have to be better or more diplomatic, amicable, intelligent, or informed than the people who voted them into office. If you took a group of 10 idiots and one of them is elected their leader that doesn’t mean that person isn’t also an idiot. They’re elected to promote and defend idiots, not to be completely different from them.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Take a look at how the death of Savita Halappanavar was one factor - but a major and highly influential one - in persuading public opinion of the pressing need to overturn (by an overwhelming majority) the constitutional ban on - prohibition of - abortion in Ireland.

 

[Herdfan]

That is why I said messaging. The Democrats cannot get their message across to the average person, or below average person. I wouldn't discount those votes, the Republicans haven't and that is where the Democrats are losing.

No, their message comes across loud and clear, it just pisses some voters off.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

No, their message comes across loud and clear, it just pisses some voters off.

Which message is that? Defund the police/just punitively stop giving them money? Open borders? FREE STUFF? Even as somebody on the left even I can’t think of a Democrat message I received that wasn’t first ground through the right-wing propaganda machine.

But also the Democrats aren't doing themselves any favors by countering that spin with little more than a smug smirk, and as far as people not wed to the Democrat party it seems that words speak louder than actions.

 

[Edd]

What I cannot believe and makes me question the Democrats ability to hold power, is when we Senator "I believe him" Collins was up for re-election, they couldn't take her seat. There is something wrong with the party's messaging or focus if they couldn't grab that seat.

Yeah, I live 20 minutes from Maine and Collins winning re-election blew my mind. She's shown what she is and Maine has alot of liberals. That one was weird.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That is why I said messaging. The Democrats cannot get their message across to the average person, or below average person. I wouldn't discount those votes, the Republicans haven't and that is where the Democrats are losing.

Both parties in the US are comprised of several coalitions that are often in conflict.

This means that neither party is a monolith, and that the preservation of the electorally successful coalition necessitates the skills of consensus building and compromise, and maintenance of the wobbly coalition (all key skills that are no longer much rated, nor respected in the American body politik and wider political culture).

However, Democrats are supposed to prize - or respect - such skills - and respect the existence of differing perspectives and viewpoints in the party.

But - and this is also interesting - it also means that small, sectional and ideologically driven, interests shouldn't be able to capture the party - either party - (as has been seen to have happened recently with the Republicans under the loathsome Mr Trump) to the extent that this has happened, and to the exclusion (and suppression) of any expression of difference, disagreement or dissent.

Democrats will have to learn some degree of party discipline, - at least where House voting is concerned, the idea that while private views can be expressed publicly, policy requires the application of a degree of voting discipline and a recognition that private views sometimes need to be subordinated to the public, or greater, good - while Republicans may need to re-learn the much derided concept of tolerance of opposing viewpoints within the one party.

 

[Herdfan]

Which message is that? Defund the police/just punitively stop giving them money? Open borders? FREE STUFF? Even as somebody on the left even I can’t think of a Democrat message I received that wasn’t first ground through the right-wing propaganda machine.

But also the Democrats aren't doing themselves any favors by countering that spin with little more than a smug smirk, and as far as people not wed to the Democrat party it seems that words speak louder than actions.

Well, I am pretty sure no Republican said Defund the Police until some Progressives did. The came up with it, so they own it and will get it hung with it.

Open Borders? - Can you provide any good reason why you have to be either vaccinated/negative test to fly into this country, yet those who cross illegally are given an appearance date and released into the country? Talk about COVID Stupid. And I understand there are some very pissed Progressives over the Biden Admin re-implementing Trump's Stay In Mexico policy. Got to say, I did not see that coming.

Both give free stuff, the Dems just give it to people, the GOP to corporations.

And you hit the nail on the head with the smug smirk. It is off-putting to to say the least.

 

[Herdfan]

Both parties in the US are comprised of several coalitions that are often in conflict.

Certainly.

But I also think the Dems have more coalitions that might be in opposition to other coalitions than the GOP.

 

[SuperMatt]

Open Borders? - Can you provide any good reason why you have to be either vaccinated/negative test to fly into this country, yet those who cross illegally are given an appearance date and released into the country?

What does COVID have to do with abortion? And this is not an accurate portrayal of what is happening at land borders, but you know that.

Also, you’re just repeating (almost verbatim) a Steve Doocy question, so if you want an answer, search the web for a video of Psaki answering that exact question.

We have a thread for COVID stupidity already; please don’t dump that in here, thanks.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, I am pretty sure no Republican said Defund the Police until some Progressives did. The came up with it, so they own it and will get it hung with it.

Open Borders? - Can you provide any good reason why you have to be either vaccinated/negative test to fly into this country, yet those who cross illegally are given an appearance date and released into the country? Talk about COVID Stupid. And I understand there are some very pissed Progressives over the Biden Admin re-implementing Trump's Stay In Mexico policy. Got to say, I did not see that coming.

Both give free stuff, the Dems just give it to people, the GOP to corporations.

And you hit the nail on the head with the smug smirk. It is off-putting to to say the least.

@Herdfan: Abortion and Covid are two separate topics.

Now, we all (or, most of us) do have strong views on both topics (views that can - perhaps uncomfortably, squirmingly uncomfortably - straddle, and yes, contradict, where we all think the state should intervene on issues such as masks, and indeed, abortion), but they are two separate and distinct issues.

This European liberal (cough) is of the opinion that abortion should be legal as long as the woman in question needs this - trimesters be damned.

And yes, this European liberal is also of the view that the state should be able to determine where and when (and for how long) masks need to be worn.

Do I contradict myself?

Well, yes, but might I also suggest (or recommend) that one read - or otherwise acquaint oneself with - the wonderful writings of (the superb American writer) Walt Whitman....