Roe vs. Wade overturned

SuperMatt said:
What is your problem with Muslims?
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In general, nothing. One of my daughter's best swim friends was Muslim. She spent the night here and my daughter at her house many times. We had many dinners at away meets with her family. I consider their dad a good friend. Even have a funny story about when their youngest got into the bacon. :)

I do have a problem with those who seek to harm us using Islam as the basis. Sorry if that is not PC, but it is what it is and I will not apologize.
 
Herdfan said:
In general, nothing. One of my daughter's best swim friends was Muslim. She spent the night here and my daughter at her house many times. We had many dinners at away meets with her family. I consider their dad a good friend. Even have a funny story about when their youngest got into the bacon. :)

I do have a problem with those who seek to harm us using Islam as the basis. Sorry if that is not PC, but it is what it is and I will not apologize.
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Do you have a problem with people seeking to do harm using Christianity as the basis? I’ve never seen you say you dislike a politician for being a “Christian sympathizer” - only for being a “Muslim Sympathizer.” What I’m seeing is straight-up anti-Muslim bigotry, which has been a big problem in America ever since 9/11.
 
Herdfan said:
Well, I am pretty sure no Republican said Defund the Police until some Progressives did. The came up with it, so they own it and will get it hung with it.

Open Borders? - Can you provide any good reason why you have to be either vaccinated/negative test to fly into this country, yet those who cross illegally are given an appearance date and released into the country? Talk about COVID Stupid. And I understand there are some very pissed Progressives over the Biden Admin re-implementing Trump's Stay In Mexico policy. Got to say, I did not see that coming.

Both give free stuff, the Dems just give it to people, the GOP to corporations.

And you hit the nail on the head with the smug smirk. It is off-putting to to say the least.
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Defund the police was/is a stupid slogan and they do need to own it because they coined it, but every time they try to explain it means divert some funds to other services that the police aren't really equipped or trained for the right goes "Shut your pie hole! We're sticking with 'defund the police' at face value. La lalalalla aaa lalala I'm not listening to you! lal alallalall ala la".

"Open borders" predates covid and even if covid didn't happen it would still be constantly trukpeted by the right despite the fact that nobody on the left (with the power) is advocating open borders. It's the same thing as 'defund the police' but also with the distinct difference that there has never been a protest march with people chanting "open borders!". It's a complete fabrication by the right and they will never concede that there are many levels of differences between executing or imprisoning every person who steps over the border uninvited and handing them all a fast track pass to our tax dollars. They'll only say that everybody on the left wants the latter.

Both Democrats and Republicans give free stuff to corporations and the rich. Democrats try to give more free stuff to lower than rich classes but that largely gets blocked by Republicans. So the wins just continue for the rich and corporations. The Democrats attempting to level the playing field by going after the rich and corporations is on par with telling the poor they are going to have to pay their fair share by paying $0.15 more a year in taxes. Oh the suffering!
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
Defund the police was/is a stupid slogan and they do need to own it because they coined it, but every time they try to explain it means divert some funds to other services that the police aren't really equipped or trained for the right goes "Shut your pie hole! We're sticking with 'defund the police' at face value. La lalalalla aaa lalala I'm not listening to you! lal alallalall ala la".
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I have some things to say but I will move them over to an appropriate thread….

Post in thread 'Police Brutality'
https://talkedabout.com/threads/police-brutality.1214/post-76717
 
Herdfan said:
Yes. I think this whole religious right movement against abortion is going to hurt a lot of people.
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And yet you voted for Trump who explicitly promised to nominate judges that would overturn Roe v Wade. Congrats.

www.cnbc.com

Trump: I'll appoint Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion case

Trump says he wants abortion legality to be decided by individual states, while Clinton vows to defend abortion rights.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

www.vox.com

The presidential debates haven't asked any direct questions about abortion — until now

And it led to a fascinating, revealing exchange between Trump and Clinton.
www.vox.com www.vox.com
 
SuperMatt said:
And yet you voted for Trump who explicitly promised to nominate judges that would overturn Roe v Wade. Congrats.
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Sometimes compromises have to be made. It sucks, but it is what it is with our 2-party system and no legitimate other choices.
 
Herdfan said:
Sometimes compromises have to be made. It sucks, but it is what it is with our 2-party system and no legitimate other choices.
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Many anti-abortion voters said the same thing about Trump’s anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, xenophobic, and misogynistic rhetoric. Trump focused a lot more on the hateful rhetoric than on the abortion issue.

IMHO, it’s hard to believe everybody that claims “well I had to hold my nose and vote for him anyway.” He beat out every other GOP nominee in the primaries. They had similar policy positions other than the openly xenophobic, racist stuff… so that was the differentiator.
 
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I am watching Meet the Press and Republican Senator Mike Braun from Indiana is going full-on “States Rights” with the abortion question. No matter how much Chuck Todd presses him on what his state will do to change the abortion laws in his state, he just refuses to answer. I think Republican politicians are petrified that they will get destroyed in 2022 when abortion becomes a crime in many states.

It makes zero sense to have abortion rights different in every state in this country.
 
Herdfan said:
I did your work for you:

www.pewforum.org

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.
www.pewforum.org www.pewforum.org



Reality is that is only in the US.
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Not even sure why that whole issue came up. We're talking about abortion in the US.

SuperMatt said:
I think Republican politicians are petrified that they will get destroyed in 2022 when abortion becomes a crime in many states.
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Maybe they're scared, but I don't think they have reason to be.

It used to be the prevailing thought that overturning Roe v. Wade would lead to the party's doom. I hate to be this pessimistic, but the country's going to be so gerrymandered I don't think that's nearly as likely as it once was.

We're barreling ahead into a faux democracy where one party wins all the time and the other one exists only to give the illusion of choice.
 
Thomas Veil said:
We're barreling ahead into a faux democracy where one party wins all the time and the other one exists only to give the illusion of choice.
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I am sure you are referring to the GOP. Ironic since the WH, House and Senate are all controlled by the Dems.

SuperMatt said:
I think Republican politicians are petrified that they will get destroyed in 2022 when abortion becomes a crime in many states.
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That should make you happy in a sense. Dems add to their majorities and you get BBB.
 
Herdfan said:
I am sure you are referring to the GOP. Ironic since the WH, House and Senate are all controlled by the Dems.
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Sure. Now.

Given the way the GOP is rigging things for subsequent elections--extreme gerrymandering, hyperpartisan officials running to become the vote certifiers in states, state legislatures all too willing to set up competing slates of electors, a SCOTUS firmly in GOP hands, and Mitch McConnell ready to kill everything via the filibuster from Jan. 2023 on--I don't see a genuine democracy anywhere on the horizon.
 
Herdfan said:
I am sure you are referring to the GOP. Ironic since the WH, House and Senate are all controlled by the Dems.



That should make you happy in a sense. Dems add to their majorities and you get BBB.
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1. He’s talking about the future, not the present. You can’t hand-wave away the problem of gerrymandering because Democrats (barely) got control of the federal government as a backlash to one of America’s worst presidents in history. All signs point to GOP Senate and House in 2022… and many states have set up gerrymandering to the point where 45% of the vote (or less in some cases) would allow a majority in the statehouse. That is NOT democracy.

2. Not going to count chickens before they hatch. Dems took this issue for granted too long and now women’s rights and health are at risk. Maybe this will lead to federal abortion laws or a constitutional amendment… but maybe not (see also gerrymandering above). And this thread is not about “build back better” or COVID… it’s about Roe v Wade.
 
Herdfan said:
I am sure you are referring to the GOP. Ironic since the WH, House and Senate are all controlled by the Dems.
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This is an illusion, the level of control and I predict based on energetic patriotic gerrymandering, in 2022 the Democratic majority (largest single group) will no longer be in a position to win elections. :oops: (I’d be thrilled to be wrong about this).
 
Huntn said:
This is an illusion, the level of control and I predict based on energetic patriotic gerrymandering, in 2022 the Democratic majority (largest single group) will no longer be in a position to win elections. :oops: (I’d be thrilled to be wrong about this).
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According to 538, the gerrymandering has actually slightly benefited the Democrats thus far, with them gaining a 6 extra seats vs. the Republican's 2.
 
Huntn said:
This is an illusion, the level of control and I predict based on energetic patriotic gerrymandering, in 2022 the Democratic majority (largest single group) will no longer be in a position to win elections. :oops: (I’d be thrilled to be wrong about this).
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I don’t understand why Manchin and Sinema aren’t on board with the voting rights bills. If they want to oppose everything else, whatever. But if nothing is done at a federal level to control voting restrictions and gerrymandering, Democrats have no future. Democrats comprise a majority of Americans. But Republicans keep power by manipulation of the system. We need to fix the system so that it is TRULY “of the people, by the people, for the people” as it was intended to be.
 
Renzatic said:
According to 538, the gerrymandering has actually slightly benefited the Democrats thus far, with them gaining a 6 extra seats vs. the Republican's 2.
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That’s not exactly how it is working out though (from 538):

At this point, redistricting has created six new Democratic-leaning seats nationally, two new Republican-leaning seats and five fewer highly competitive seats. However, because many of those newly blue seats are already held by Democrats, it’s actually Republicans who have gained a handful of House seats through the redistricting process so far. Republicans have also converted light-red districts into safer seats in states like Indiana, Oklahoma and Utah.
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projects.fivethirtyeight.com

What Redistricting Looks Like In Every State

An updating tracker of proposed congressional maps — and whether they might benefit Democrats or Republicans in the 2022 midterm elections and beyond
projects.fivethirtyeight.com projects.fivethirtyeight.com
 
SuperMatt said:
I don’t understand why Manchin and Sinema aren’t on board with the voting rights bills. If they want to oppose everything else, whatever. But if nothing is done at a federal level to control voting restrictions and gerrymandering, Democrats have no future. Democrats comprise a majority of Americans. But Republicans keep power by manipulation of the system. We need to fix the system so that it is TRULY “of the people, by the people, for the people” as it was intended to be.
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No they don't. That is patently false.
 
Herdfan said:
No they don't. That is patently false.
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When it comes to identifying with or registering for a party, you are correct. 40+% of America self-identify as independents now, and less than 30% identify with Dems, and the same for the GOP.

What I should have said is that Democrats get more votes than Republicans, every presidential election going back to 2008. The point is that the Democrats are getting more votes nationwide and in many states, but due to gerrymandering, that majority of votes doesn’t translate to majority representation in government. In 2018, at least 5 states had minority rule by Republicans:

1638755491880.png

As you can see, the most egregious is Wisconsin, but all 5 states are led by a government that does NOT represent the will of the people.

Another trend we see is that higher turnout - more votes for Democrats. That’s another indication that the Democrats are more appealing to voters. So if you go by identifying with or registering for a party, neither party has a majority. But more people have been voting Democrat than Republican for well over a decade.
 
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