Roe vs. Wade overturned

GermanSuplex said:
Ari Melber had the best breakdown of this I've seen yet. Old white men making calls and citing previous "intent" of founders and outdated rulings. As he said, its like using "intent" of slaveowners to debate voting rights. Fucking stupid.

The last few years have totally wiped out the facade of America being some progressive beacon of diversity and unity. Don't get me wrong, there's few other places I'd rather live, but we've got a large contingent of folks who really want to make this country an oppressive hell hole like Russia. And the people pushing for it the hardest will be the first ones bitching when they have to suffer under the regime they helped create. You think these Christian crusader gun nuts will be walking the streets with rifles if people like Trump have real, actual power?

It will be based on race, sex and class. You must past all three tests, and there's a lot of white guys who don't have the money to hang with Trump, and they'll be treated the same as a black woman in modern America at that point - if they're lucky. Maybe then they'll get it.
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It’s going to be funny when all the poor white trailer trash in the south that voted for a trump realize they won’t be safe under that regime.
 
ronntaylor said:
This is exactly why I wouldn't want a vote on whether certain groups should have certain rights. These same voters are voting in "a small group of state ideologues" that restrict rights already.
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I can see that, but making people vote for these things also rubs people's noses in it.

It's a lot easier for someone to not feel so bad about voting for a representative who votes for things they disagree with, if on the whole they agree more than they disagree with that representative. A solid majority of Americans support the right of a woman to receive an abortion in at least some cases — it is the Republican Party that’s increasingly espousing positions that a majority of Americans — hell, even their own constituents — disagree with but still earning their votes.

That’s why Democrats need to quit with the “when they go low, we go high” nonsense. It sounds great, sure, but look where it’s gotten us.
 
cant I imagine how this could go wrong. a Lying president with the help of a lying Moscow Mitch ignored the lying nominees and the lying judges showed us how honest they were. Of course they ill go after other things even though they deny it. just a great big bunch of liars.
 
ronntaylor said:
This is exactly why I wouldn't want a vote on whether certain groups should have certain rights. These same voters are voting in "a small group of state ideologues" that restrict rights already.
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This is the argument for the bill of rights in the first place. The 14th amendment expanded this. I agree wholeheartedly that we cannot allow majority rule to decide rights. If we did that, the religion of Islam would have certainly been banned after 9/11/2001 - the sentiment in America was that negative. The majority often has no problem taking away rights from minorities. We cannot just put it to a vote when it comes to human rights.
 
SuperMatt said:
This is the argument for the bill of rights in the first place. The 14th amendment expanded this. I agree wholeheartedly that we cannot allow majority rule to decide rights. If we did that, the religion of Islam would have certainly been banned after 9/11/2001 - the sentiment in America was that negative. The majority often has no problem taking away rights from minorities. We cannot just put it to a vote when it comes to human rights.
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We have always heard that women amount to about 51% of the population, so that would make them not-a-minority.

us-population-by-age-and-gender-20151.png

What we see in this image, the dark blue on the left is "excess" males, and where it is dark red on the right, there aremore females. Do the math: A woman's childbearing years are typically between 18 and 40, during almost all of which, there are more men than women in the age group.

Viewed as a whole, the people directly affected by this – women (and girls) who can carry a fetus – are by far a minority of the overall population. Even if you push the bracket of affected from 13~55, they still amount to what looks to me like no more than a third of the country.
 
I wonder how much of this will happen that we don't hear about, and what it's long term effects will be?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540491567336751105/

I wonder how much outcry there would be if say a popular athlete when their contract ended with a team, chose to go elsewhere over the ban?

We know people already lose their shit when celebs speak their mind either way on the topic.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540351738292539393/

I just wonder what happens when more & more businesses, celebs, maybe even athletes act on their beliefs against this ban?
 
ronntaylor said:
Black people, Latinos and queer people would be up shit's creek if our rights depended on white people voting on us being equal. There is no question in my mind. That includes tons of so-called progressives/liberals.
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That doesn’t answer the question. What’s the solution if the supreme court puts them up shit‘s creek?
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
That doesn’t answer the question. What’s the solution if the supreme court puts them up shit‘s creek?
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I think it does. There isn't supposed to be a solution. That's why conservatives were so obsessively focused on stacking the courts, even if they had to blatantly shit on any pre existing norms that both parties previously followed. The only solution isn't possible because the party that is supposed to be standing up for the disenfranchised, has members among them who won't. Because those members won't be affected by the havoc this supreme court will bring now & in the future, so they don't have to give a f- about anyone else.

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As a selfish note, I'm interested in all the things that uncle thomas has indicated he wants to go after next, he somehow left out 'Loving Vs Virginia. That shows anyone what a flaming d- he is towards any other groups.
 
These abortion bans could be overcome through massive civil disobedience by the medical profession.

All the associations of doctors opposed this ruling, filing briefs against it. Well, time to do something about it. Every doctor in the nation steps up and says “we will still perform abortions; try locking us all up.” 78% of doctors believe there should be zero restrictions on abortion. I believe it’s less than 1% who support it being banned.

Remember when the Republicans were screaming about Obamacare and how their health care choices should only be between them and their doctor(s)? What the F ever happened to that line of thinking?
 
JayMysteri0 said:
I wonder how much of this will happen that we don't hear about, and what it's long term effects will be?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540491567336751105/

I wonder how much outcry there would be if say a popular athlete when their contract ended with a team, chose to go elsewhere over the ban?

We know people already lose their shit when celebs speak their mind either way on the topic.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540351738292539393/

I just wonder what happens when more & more businesses, celebs, maybe even athletes act on their beliefs against this ban?
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Imagine if every top recruit for college athletics refused to go to colleges in abortion-ban states. They love college football more than anything in Alabama. How long would they accept being relegated to the dregs of the NCAA instead of winning championships all the time?

As @ronntaylor has made many posts about unions, they are proof that even in a rigged political system, the people do have the power, if they choose to exercise it.

The right-wingers made fun of Obama for being a “community organizer” but that is exactly what we need, and it’s how he kicked their butts 2 straight elections in his tan suit.
 
fooferdoggie said:
there is no way anyone can trust a republican not to totally ban abortion if they get into office and have a chance now.
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While I can understand the sentiment since the likes of Susie Van Collins, Joe, and Murkowski are known to be full of shit.

I don't believe EVERY republican is on board with this, it's just those all out conservative or pandering to them. We have to remember that abortion wasn't always republican staple nor even an Evangelical one. It just became one as a way to unite on an ideology over something for the good of the country. Remember even Reagan, even 45 was on board with abortion & Biden against it, until it was politically expedient not to be.

For some it's a cause, for other it's what's good for their careers.

www.nytimes.com

The Man Most Responsible for Ending Roe Worries That It Could Hurt His Party

Former President Donald J. Trump has privately told friends and advisers that a ruling overturning Roe v. Wade will be “bad for Republicans.”
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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When a draft copy of the decision leaked in May, Mr. Trump began telling friends and advisers that it would anger suburban women, a group who helped tilt the 2020 race to President Biden, and would lead to a backlash against Republicans in the November midterm elections.

In other conversations, Mr. Trump has told people that measures like the Texas state law banning most abortions after six weeks and allowing citizens to file lawsuits against people who enable abortions are “so stupid,” according to a person with direct knowledge of the discussions. The Supreme Court let the measure stand in December 2021.

For the first hours after the decision was made public on Friday, Mr. Trump was muted in response, a striking contrast to the conservatives who worked in his administration, including former Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Pence issued a statement saying, “Life won,” as he called for abortion opponents to keep fighting “in every state in the land.”

For weeks in advance of the ruling, Mr. Trump had been just as muted. In an interview with The New York Times in May, Mr. Trump uttered an eyebrow-raising demurral in response to a question about the central role he had played in paving the way for the reversal of Roe v. Wade.
“I never like to take credit for anything,” said Mr. Trump, who has spent his career affixing his name to almost anything he could.

Pressed to describe his feelings about having helped assemble a court that was on the verge of erasing the 1973 ruling, Mr. Trump refused to engage the question and instead focused on the leak of the draft opinion.

“I don’t know what the decision is,” he said. “We’ve been reading about something that was drawn months ago. Nobody knows what that decision is. A draft is a draft.”

By early afternoon on Friday, Mr. Trump put out a statement taking a victory lap, including applauding himself for sticking by his choice of nominees. All three of Mr. Trump’s appointees to the court — whom he pushed through with help from Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader — were in the majority in the 6-to-3 ruling. He left unspoken the fact that he repeatedly attacked the court for not interceding on his behalf after he lost the 2020 election.
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You can tell who's full of it, by their walking around this decision ( collins, manchin, murkowski ), and others like Pence who are proud of it.
 
SuperMatt said:
These abortion bans could be overcome through massive civil disobedience by the medical profession.

All the associations of doctors opposed this ruling, filing briefs against it. Well, time to do something about it. Every doctor in the nation steps up and says “we will still perform abortions; try locking us all up.” 78% of doctors believe there should be zero restrictions on abortion. I believe it’s less than 1% who support it being banned.

Remember when the Republicans were screaming about Obamacare and how their health care choices should only be between them and their doctor(s)? What the F ever happened to that line of thinking?
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Sounds great in theory, but more difficult in practice. People often speak of "organized medicine" in the U.S., but in reality, it's not well organized at all. The healthcare system in this country is massively fragmented. Physicians who work for academic and other large institutions are already being advised to consult corporate counsel when caring for pregnant patients who may need an abortion or evacuation of a non-viable embryo or fetus. Even in states that have an exception where a procedure is permitted to save the mother's life in an emergent situations, decisions will be questioned after the fact.

The situation will also be precarious for obstetricians and other physicians who care for patients in private practice. How many will be willing to jeopardize their ability to support their family and/or risk incarceration?

Red states with draconian anti-abortion laws will probably see some physicians leave. And they definitely will be less able to recruit physicians from out-of-state or convince locally-trained ones to stay, though the effects will take time, especially in urban areas that already have an abundance of healthcare providers.

It will be more effective if commercial entities and universities in these states begin to have difficulty attracting skilled non-healthcare people. For example, Alabama touts itself as a haven for high-tech companies, especially in space-related industries around Huntsville. They'll have more difficulty filling positions, though I'm sure they'll be able to find some locals who will be perfectly fine living in Gilead.
 
I saw McConnell saying this week that the gun control bill, in his mind, was a way to draw suburban voters closer to the GOP, who own small towns and rural areas, but suburbs not so much.

If he’s correct about that, overturning Roe would wipe that progress out, I’d think.
 
One of the whispered fears of white supremecists is that black people will rise up and take revenge for the centuries of oppression. That pretty much describes Clarence "I'm up for oppressing anybody. So bring it!" Thomas while still coloring within the lines of the white taskmasters. They'll just go down the line chopping the rights not in the constitution until they get to his right to marry a white women at which point awkward chuckles will fill the room.
 
Edd said:
I saw McConnell saying this week that the gun control bill, in his mind, was a way to draw suburban voters closer to the GOP, who own small towns and rural areas, but suburbs not so much.

If he’s correct about that, overturning Roe would wipe that progress out, I’d think.
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That gun bill is useless, a gesture that won't make any difference.
 
Roller said:
Sounds great in theory, but more difficult in practice. People often speak of "organized medicine" in the U.S., but in reality, it's not well organized at all. The healthcare system in this country is massively fragmented. Physicians who work for academic and other large institutions are already being advised to consult corporate counsel when caring for pregnant patients who may need an abortion or evacuation of a non-viable embryo or fetus. Even in states that have an exception where a procedure is permitted to save the mother's life in an emergent situations, decisions will be questioned after the fact.

The situation will also be precarious for obstetricians and other physicians who care for patients in private practice. How many will be willing to jeopardize their ability to support their family and/or risk incarceration?

Red states with draconian anti-abortion laws will probably see some physicians leave. And they definitely will be less able to recruit physicians from out-of-state or convince locally-trained ones to stay, though the effects will take time, especially in urban areas that already have an abundance of healthcare providers.

It will be more effective if commercial entities and universities in these states begin to have difficulty attracting skilled non-healthcare people. For example, Alabama touts itself as a haven for high-tech companies, especially in space-related industries around Huntsville. They'll have more difficulty filling positions, though I'm sure they'll be able to find some locals who will be perfectly fine living in Gilead.
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Yes I agree it would be difficult. Would it be more or less difficult than changing things through voting?

Let’s say we elect enough members of Congress to pass a federal law protecting abortion rights. What’s to say this Supreme Court wouldn’t just overturn such a law? You’d then need to amend the constitution, and you can bet that states with abortion bans aren’t going to ratify such an amendment.

Plus, most states have gerrymandered all like-minded voters into districts where they get their “guaranteed” seats. So at some point, organized civil actions become the only way to change things.

When people were denied the right to vote, they were forced into civil disobedience... because otherwise they were simply at the mercy of those who COULD vote. If today’s GOP denies people the right to vote with gerrymandering and restrictive voting laws, such steps will be necessary once again.

Of course, if young people woke up and realized they don’t NEED to live in a world where school shootings are a fact of their life and they have no freedom to choose whether to reproduce… they could change it all. To be perfectly honest though, I was more worried about college and then finding a way to pay college loans at that age than I was about voting, so can I blame them?
 
JayMysteri0 said:
I know it's repetitive, but I really can't express my disgust enough for these two senators

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540352445859127299/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1540529058202746883/

naw-mike-epps.gif


Don't try to duck & run NOW, we've seen you since the beginning. Enjoy your places in history.
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These two would go to a Gallagher show, sit in the front row, and then complain about how shocked they were when they got watermelon juice all over their clothes.
 
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