Roe vs. Wade overturned

You know how republicans always responded to examples of abortion as being “extremely rare” or “uncommon”? I guess they think women need to be punished for one-night stands, or perhaps they think only young black women get abortions, and then they can demonize them later when they seek government assistance.

Now that the dog has caught the car, we’re seeing just how often those “extreme” cases happen.

Should be interesting to see what happens when this starts affecting families of pro-choice conservatives who support this “pro-life” crap.

The irony of determining a 16 year old isn’t mature enough to make a decision on having an abortion, but is mature enough to be a parent, is wild.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Fl. court rules pregnant teen girl isn't 'mature enough' for abortion

A 16-year-old pregnant and parentless Florida girl may be forced to give birth after a judge ruled she was not 'sufficiently mature' enough to make the decision to have an abortion.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 
AZ's 15-week abortion limit takes effect tomorrow. Court just ruled a stricter 1864 near-ban takes precedence and must be enforced. Arizona not even a state in 1864; the ban was codified in 1901.

Honestly wtf wrong with these people.

Arizona Judge Reinstates Strict Abortion Ban From 1864 (NYT, paywall removed)

The stricter ban, which can be traced to 1864, was blocked by a court injunction in 1973 shortly after the Supreme Court, in Roe v. Wade, determined that there was a constitutional right to abortion.

On Friday, Judge Kellie Johnson of Pima County Superior Court lifted that injunction, noting that Roe had been overruled in June and that Planned Parenthood’s request for the court to “harmonize the laws” in Arizona was flawed.

The 1864 law, first established by the state’s territorial legislature, mandates a two- to five-year prison sentence for anyone who helps a woman obtain an abortion. In 1901, the state updated and codified the law.
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Planned Parenthood Arizona had argued that the state’s conflicting laws should be reconciled so licensed physicians could continue providing abortions under the 15-week regulation, with the much earlier law only applying to others performing the procedure.

Judge Johnson, who was appointed by the governor, disagreed. “The court finds that because the legal basis for the judgment entered in 1973 has now been overruled, it must vacate the judgment in its entirety,” she wrote. “The court finds an attempt to reconcile 50 years of legislative activity procedurally improper.”

Abortion rights supporters like Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, the Democratic candidate for governor, were critical of the decision. “Medical professionals will now be forced to think twice and call their lawyer before providing patients with oftentimes necessary, lifesaving care,” she said in a statement.
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Their messaging is all over the map right now. You have conservatives in swing districts who ran as full-on pro-lifers in the primaries, and are now trying to walk back to the middle for the general. In fact, some of them are scrubbing their websites, dodging questions or pretending it isn't even an issue at all.

I have no clue what Senator Graham is doing with this pro-life bill he's introduced. Is it to take heat off of himself in the GA probe? Is it some gamble he's taking that he is going to the be the hero to spin this in a more positive light?

I would LOVE it if republicans failed to take back the house in November. It seems like a longshot, but not outside the realm of possibility. Biden's numbers are going up the highest they've been this year after a string of legislative victories. Trump is dominating the news cycle, and none of it is good news. The people still in the bag for Trump and taking his side on things like all these criminal and civil suits are probably all going to vote republican, but they can't count on those people alone. They seem to want to drive turnout from "the base", but seem to have abandoned the folks in the middle.

It's hard for me to imagine the overturning of Roe v. Wade won't cause a surge of new and swing voters to vote for the democrat candidates this fall, but who knows. It does seem like entirely new territory though... republicans have been trying to accomplish this for fifty years, and now they've accomplished it, but I don't hear very many republicans campaigning on this "victory" - quite the opposite. Good or bad, it IS a pretty big deal and a culmination of a lot of hard work by republicans. Yet they don't seem to be treating it as such... for obvious reasons.
 
GermanSuplex said:
I would LOVE it if republicans failed to take back the house in November. It seems like a longshot, but not outside the realm of possibility. Biden's numbers are going up the highest they've been this year after a string of legislative victories. Trump is dominating the news cycle, and none of it is good news.
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Per 538, Joe the President is very close to where Individual-ONE was at this point 8 years ago (B: -9.6 / T:-12.1, net) when he lost the House.
 
Yoused said:
Per 538, Joe the President is very close to where Individual-ONE was at this point 8 years ago (B: -9.6 / T:-12.1, net) when he lost the House.
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Yeah, but there's always surprises. I'm definitely not betting on it, but what I would hope for if/when republicans win the house is that they may pick up a few close seats - seats that could have went either way - but that any major upsets happen on their side as well. Meaning, they may gain some seats, but lose some influential and well-known members.

I hope the same happens on the senate side, in even grander fashion if the democrats pick up a seat or two to break the tie and give less influence to Manchin and Sinema, as well as the GOP.
 
GermanSuplex said:
I hope the same happens on the senate side, in even grander fashion if the democrats pick up a seat or two to break the tie and give less influence to Manchin and Sinema, as well as the GOP.
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Part of me wants the Dems to win the Senate (But only if the GOP takes the House) because VP Harris has said if they take the Senate, the Filibuster is done. Have at it. Be the party that does away with it because at some point in the future, the GOP will control all 3 again so if there is no Filibuster, they will be able to do basically what they want without having to have been the party that did away with it.
 
Herdfan said:
Part of me wants the Dems to win the Senate (But only if the GOP takes the House) because VP Harris has said if they take the Senate, the Filibuster is done. Have at it. Be the party that does away with it because at some point in the future, the GOP will control all 3 again so if there is no Filibuster, they will be able to do basically what they want without having to have been the party that did away with it.
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I am still not a fan of ditching the filibuster. I get it (and it's frustrating) that the Senate now tends to undervalue the will of constituents of Democratic Senators, because of the population differences in rural states and urban ones.

Still we do see some rural states ending up with at least one Dem in the Senate, and that's likely to be more common over time unless the Republicans can shift gears on some of their past platforms regarding not only social issues but the economic ones that affect equality of opportunity.

Meanwhile though, taking a 60-vote bar for key legislation down to a 50-50 split with a tie-breaking VP in the wings would make it worse for Democrats' representation, not better, whenever the Senate happens to have either a 50-50 split in an R administration or else an outright Republican majority.

So really I don't get why Democrats want to go for killing the filibuster. They'd do better just trying to regain a few more seats to reduce that population weighting unfairness and bring them closer to being able to overcome a filibuster more easily.

Anyway the Rs are aware their favored demographics are on the wane, and yet they don't seem inclined to update their platform or outreach well enough to stem the tide of more blue Senators as time goes on. It's not clear to me that the pro-Trump GOP's craze for legslating state level rigging of election results they don't like is really a big seller in the USA either.
 
GermanSuplex said:
Their messaging is all over the map right now. You have conservatives in swing districts who ran as full-on pro-lifers in the primaries, and are now trying to walk back to the middle for the general. In fact, some of them are scrubbing their websites, dodging questions or pretending it isn't even an issue at all.

I have no clue what Senator Graham is doing with this pro-life bill he's introduced. Is it to take heat off of himself in the GA probe? Is it some gamble he's taking that he is going to the be the hero to spin this in a more positive light?

I would LOVE it if republicans failed to take back the house in November. It seems like a longshot, but not outside the realm of possibility. Biden's numbers are going up the highest they've been this year after a string of legislative victories. Trump is dominating the news cycle, and none of it is good news. The people still in the bag for Trump and taking his side on things like all these criminal and civil suits are probably all going to vote republican, but they can't count on those people alone. They seem to want to drive turnout from "the base", but seem to have abandoned the folks in the middle.

It's hard for me to imagine the overturning of Roe v. Wade won't cause a surge of new and swing voters to vote for the democrat candidates this fall, but who knows. It does seem like entirely new territory though... republicans have been trying to accomplish this for fifty years, and now they've accomplished it, but I don't hear very many republicans campaigning on this "victory" - quite the opposite. Good or bad, it IS a pretty big deal and a culmination of a lot of hard work by republicans. Yet they don't seem to be treating it as such... for obvious reasons.
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The main reason I think it’s not a slam dunk for Democrats is that they want to return us to 2015 completely oblivious (STILL) that it was our failed and corrupt duopoly that made Trump look like an appealing gamble to many. The Republicans want to return us to the 1800’s which no living person has memory of but they do have the memory that 2015 and the decades leading up to it sucked.
 
Yoused said:
idahocapitalsun.com

University of Idaho releases memo warning employees that promoting abortion is against state law • Idaho Capital Sun

The University of Idaho has warned its employees not to provide reproductive health counseling, including abortion, to their students.
idahocapitalsun.com idahocapitalsun.com

they are allowed to provide condoms for disease prevention but not for birth control

🤦🏽
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pregnancy is now a disease I guess. its amazing they dont want unwanted pregancies but they dont want to prevent them either.
 
What pisses me off about this whole thing is that Lindsey Graham, and think of him what you wish because it could have been any Republican member, introduced a bill that would have capped abortions at 15 weeks. Nationwide. And all the left could focus on was the 15-week limit completely ignoring it would legalize it up to 15 weeks Nationwide.

This could have been the stepping stone to a compromise that could have ended at 20 or 24 weeks. Something that 70-80% of the country would have been happy with. But no, the left is too afraid of agreeing to ANY limits. Who or what are they afraid of? Are there that many rabid abortion supporters that want abortion up until her water breaks that they need to appease them?
 
Herdfan said:
What pisses me off about this whole thing is that Lindsey Graham, and think of him what you wish because it could have been any Republican member, introduced a bill that would have capped abortions at 15 weeks. Nationwide. And all the left could focus on was the 15-week limit completely ignoring it would legalize it up to 15 weeks Nationwide.

This could have been the stepping stone to a compromise that could have ended at 20 or 24 weeks. Something that 70-80% of the country would have been happy with. But no, the left is too afraid of agreeing to ANY limits. Who or what are they afraid of? Are there that many rabid abortion supporters that want abortion up until her water breaks that they need to appease them?
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You also realize it completely turns the GOP argument of it being a states right issue on its head too right?

It destroys the message on why they wanted to over turn Roe. Graham now has given the democrats ammo in that’s the GOP is gunning to ban abortion federally.

Also that bill allows states to still ban it outright or have further restrictions. Plus the post-15 week exceptions still doesn’t cover health issues with the fetus. They have to wait until that health issue is literally about to kill the mom or dies on its own before doctors can do anything. No one, but the wackos support abortions all the way to birth as an elective procedure. The right needs to stop pushing that narrative, it’s not even close to being true.
 
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Yoused said:
idahocapitalsun.com

University of Idaho releases memo warning employees that promoting abortion is against state law • Idaho Capital Sun

The University of Idaho has warned its employees not to provide reproductive health counseling, including abortion, to their students.
idahocapitalsun.com idahocapitalsun.com

they are allowed to provide condoms for disease prevention but not for birth control

🤦🏽
Click to expand...

The Catholicization of America 🤣

@Herdfan I wouldn't be opposed to a nationwide 15-week limit, provided that it applies to all states and no full bans are allowed.
 
TBL said:
The Catholicization of America 🤣

@Herdfan I wouldn't be opposed to a nationwide 15-week limit, provided that it applies to all states and no full bans are allowed.
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I would be. The previous line that Roe established of viability is the best cut off for elective abortions and anything past viability is purely a medical decision due to defect, life of the mother, etc.
 
In either case, staunch pro-lifers would not have been happy with this either. If you think abortion is murder, then 15 weeks, the next day, it doesn't matter.
 
We all know a National 15-week abortion cutoff ain't happening. As @quagmire already said, it contradicts the GOP's States Rights BS. And if flies in the face of states that have more expansive abortion rights. I can't imagine New York, California and many others allowing harsh restrictions to hamstring the rights of women.

The GOP would rather hide the issue and run on social BS.
 
Herdfan said:
What pisses me off about this whole thing is that Lindsey Graham, and think of him what you wish because it could have been any Republican member, introduced a bill that would have capped abortions at 15 weeks. Nationwide. And all the left could focus on was the 15-week limit completely ignoring it would legalize it up to 15 weeks Nationwide.
Click to expand...
The left probably completely ignored that it would legalize it up to 15 weeks nationwide because it absolutely wouldn’t legalize it nationwide at all. It would leave stricter state-level bans in place. Where did you get the idea that it would legalize it up to 15 weeks nationwide?

www.lgraham.senate.gov

Graham Introduces Legislation to Protect Unborn Children, Bring U.S. Abortion Policy in Line with Other Developed Nations

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today introduced the Protecting Pain-Capable Unborn Children from Late-Term Abortions Act in the United States Senate. The legislation would set a federal minimum protection for unborn children that is in line with European limits and...
www.lgraham.senate.gov

The Graham legislation:
  • Prohibits doctors from performing abortions after 15 weeks gestation – when an unborn child can feel pain – except in situations involving rape, incest, or risks to the life and physical health of the mother.
  • Leaves in place state laws that are more protective of unborn life.
Click to expand...
 
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