Russia-Ukraine

[Yoused]

How to paint a big target,

Pope Francis on Sunday made an impassioned appeal to Putin to stop "this spiral of violence and death" in Ukraine and also called on Zelenskiy to be open to any "serious peace proposal". Zelenskiy said on Friday … "We are ready for a dialogue with Russia, but with another president of Russia."​

IOW: Putin or Peace, you decide.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

There is another important aspect at play here. The West has told Ukraine to refrain from launching missile attacks (or, for that matter, troop incursions) into Russian territory (presumably to try to inspire Russians to fight to defend Mother Russia). Now Russia (or at least Vlad) asserts that Donbas is Russian territory, which is not really recognized by the rest of the world. But the "annexation" has now blurred the border. Ukraine is now attacking "into Russia", at least according to Russia, so, do they stop at the original border (lines on a map), or should they take more land, form a truly defensible land? Take back Crimea?

Vlad has dug hisself into a deep corner.

Exactly, and is he going to consprict these new "Russians" to fight against Ukranians which they themselves were a week ago?

Reminds me of Saddam's infamous meeting of party members where he accused random members of being traitors and then rewarded the remaining members with the honor of killing them.

 

[leman]

And now Elon joined the clown team… what a loser

 

[Nycturne]

And now Elon joined the clown team… what a loser

This is my surprised face…

 

[Cmaier]

And now Elon joined the clown team… what a loser

Survey:

Elon should buy back my Model S at full purchase price, give me $50k toward the purchase of a competing car, and feed me peeled grapes.

Yes [. ]
No [. ]

This is going to be the end result, anyway. It’s just a question of how much his reputation will die before then.

 

[Edd]

And now Elon joined the clown team… what a loser

He proposes Ukraine remain neutral. What a fucking joke. He should be punched in the mouth for suggesting it.

 

[lizkat]

Easy peasey, as their military seems to be weakened, people are fleeing the country, protests in their own streets, Russia claims new Ukrainian territory, says they will defend it with Nukes…
How will the screw turn?

Russia vows "full protection" to territories annexed from Ukraine

The referendums could lead to the annexation of nearly 15% of Ukraine.

www.axios.com

Well there's a new journalistic + service endeavor doing reporting and also trying to help people get sorted out on how to avoid ending up cannon fodder or doing time in Russia for desertion...

The Russian language news startup Helpdesk offers service journalism for times of war

Founder Ilya Krasilshchik doesn't know the average age or gender or location of the people seeking help through Helpdesk's chat — he just knows many are terrified.

www.niemanlab.org

“We are joint team of Russian and Ukrainian journalists — a unique situation in current circumstances,” points out founder Ilya Krasilshchik.

Ben Smith, co-founder of Semafor and former media columnist for The New York Times, described Helpdesk as “service journalism for people in a conflict zone” and dubbed the news startup “one of the most interesting media projects to grow out of the Ukraine conflict.”

In addition to operating the hotline, Helpdesk publishes stories about the war in Ukraine on Telegram and Instagram. The number of people turning to the independent news org for information is staggering. Krasilshchik said the Helpdesk Instagram account is reaching 2.5 million users per month, while its Telegram reaches 3 million per day. (Telegram is one of the few platforms where Russians can access independent news sources and has been the most downloaded app in Russia in recent months.)

Krasilshchik started what has become Helpdesk soon after the war in Ukraine broke out. (The English version of the outlet was previously called War.evidence.) Krasilshchik is the former publisher of Meduza, one of the leading independent Russian language news outlets and had taken a break from journalism to work for the Russian tech corporation Yandex.

“I understood that the only thing I can do now is to come back to the media,” Krasilshchik said.

But, Krasilshchik continued, he also wanted to help people directly.

“And this is an eternal conflict: you can’t combine journalism and activism,” he said. “Suddenly we came up with an idea: we can launch a 2-in-1 project. First part will be media on social platforms (and we have 15 years of experience in the best Russian media to do it well). And the second part will be the Helpdesk, launched by professional support specialists which I know from my Yandex years. The second part is pure activism. But in such a scheme these two parts help each other.”

The Helpdesk team sees its journalism — which has included first-person stories about being unwillingly drafted and graphic evidence of torture in Russian-occupied cities — as a funnel for financial support to the Helpdesk.

“Support gives us the ability to understand what is really happening with Russians and Ukrainians, which is really important because almost no Russian journalists are still in the country,” Krasilshchik said.

Fundraising has been difficult because Visa and Mastercard have suspended operations in Russia. The organization can receive money from the West, however, and has raised some funds through the Maryland-based VC firm North Base Media. It’s raised $1.6 million so far, and Krasilshchik expects its annual budget will run about $3 million.

 

[leman]

He proposes Ukraine remain neutral. What a fucking joke. He should be punched in the mouth for suggesting it.

He also proposes that a new “referendum” is held… after thousands of people have been murdered and millions have been displaced. It’s literally a new Munich agreement, which worked so well in the past. And this clown even dares to speak about “lessons in history”.

There was an internationally recognized referendum in 1991 where every single region, Crimea included, has voted to be a part of an independent Ukraine. Russia has recognized this vote and pledged in 1994 to respect and protect Ukrainian border as it was. That’s all one needs to know.

 

[Yoused]

The Russian army is "missing" 1.5 million uniforms.

("missing" almost certainly means they were marked purchased, manufactured and delivered on some ledgers but do not exist and never did exist except for about a thousand that turned up in several random army surplus stores around the world)

​

 

[Yoused]

There was a kerfuffle. Russian army regulars attempted to relieve fresh conscripts of personal items, including phones. Surprisingly, the new guys were not onboard with this idea and set upon the regulars, who had to resort to locking themselves in a room to evade the thrashing.

 

[Macky-Mac]

Well, Ukrainian troops are in Lyman, which is in annexed territory. Still waiting for those nukes...

Perhaps he's still hung over and moving slowly after the big all weekend long annexation party....

In the meantime, things aren't going well for Russia and while it's satisfying to see the Ukrainians have some successes, doesn't it seem likely that the worse things go for Russia, the more likely it becomes that Putin will actually end up doing something with all those nukes that he has?

 

[lizkat]

Perhaps he's still hung over and moving slowly after the big all weekend long annexation party....

In the meantime, things aren't going well for Russia and while it's satisfying to see the Ukrainians have some successes, doesn't it seem likely that the worse things go for Russia, the more likely it becomes that Putin will actually end up doing something with all those nukes that he has?

Hope not. Given some recent issues with trying to fuel a certain rocket, the USA might not be able to ship a crew to the moon again to let the dust settle on a mutually assured destruction scenario. And even if we could... there's nothing up there to sustain human life.

Shame to leave the last barrol of petrol in the ground, right? Hope Putin thinks like that!

Honestly one would wish scientists of the 1940s had had the spine to say F this we know how to split the atom but it would be such a spoiler to write the equation for the end of human history on the blackboard so soon. Let's have a coffee or two first...

We know what Einstein said, right?

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought,​

but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."​

Even that could be an unlikely scenario today, if a country with nuclear warfare options decides to call another "nukes club" member's possible bluff. The planet could end up uninhabitable way before climate change gets to try for the last word.

Such a dangerous option that it's hard for sane people to wrap their minds around the possibility that someone would chose it. That leaves the insane, and accidents, and "accidents."

 

[Macky-Mac]

Hope not....

Yes, I hope not too.

I'm more inclined to think it would be one of the "low yield" battlefield nukes used in Ukraine and not something directed at a NATO country.......and who knows, maybe the Russian military will decide they don't feel like taking the punishment for Putin's continuing errors, maybe they'll step in and change the situation.

Meanwhile, things continue to go in Ukraine's favor. Today's briefing from The Institute for the Study of War starts;

Ukrainian forces continued to make substantial gains around Lyman and in Kherson Oblast in the last 48 hours. Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops made significant breakthroughs in northern Kherson Oblast between October 2 and 3. Geolocated footage corroborates Russian claims that Ukrainian troops are continuing to push east of Lyman and may have broken through the Luhansk Oblast border in the direction of Kreminna....

 

[Citysnaps]

On tonight's news... Zelensky is applying for accelerated ascension into NATO. That poses an interesting dynamic in getting all 30 members to approve with Putin claiming parts of Ukraine now being Russian territory.

EDIT: Perhaps that possibility drove Putin's move to claim that area as Russian territory.

 

[Yoused]

Perhaps that possibility drove Putin's move to claim that area as Russian territory.

No, NATO membership hinges in part on a member having a lack of disputed territory: Crimea has effectively disqualified Ukraine.


(And, has anyone noticed that it is now The Ukraine?)

 

[Deleted member 215]

Yep. "The Ukraine" was terminology used when Ukraine was not a sovereign nation and was part of the Soviet Union. Apparently also Lebanon was called "the Lebanon" when it was a colony of France. Putting "the" in front of the name implies it's a territory rather than a country.

Being born post-Cold War, I didn't grow up with "the Ukraine", but I guess it was pretty widespread for a long time.

 

[AG_PhamD]

And now Elon joined the clown team… what a loser

I’ve never been much of a Musk fan, even before it became popular.

His ideas might have worked 6 months ago, but many of his ideas are just infeasible at this point such as holding another referendum in an area that’s ever changing, with a population most of whom have fled or killed or relocated to Siberia or whatever. Handing over Crimea is however a likely outcome of this at some point. If there was ever a chance for nuclear weapons, Crimea would be it. Russia has also built up defenses for years and it will be the last territory they will give up. Taking it back will likely incur massive losses and serious consequences.

Calling Musk a Putin puppet is ridiculous though considering the amount of aid he has personally given Ukraine. I think it’s important to consider any call for peace as anti-Ukrainian. Ukraine has the right to determine when and where they decide to stop fighting, but the west also has the right when to stop supplying arms. But at the end of the day peace is the reasonable outcome everyone should want. It’s understandable Zelensky wants to conquer all territory back, but at what cost?

 

[Edd]

No, NATO membership hinges in part on a member having a lack of disputed territory: Crimea has effectively disqualified Ukraine.


(And, has anyone noticed that it is now The Ukraine?)

When the war started, there was frequent grammar correction on social media when ever anyone used “The”. It became pretty difficult to get away with using it.

 

[leman]

Calling Musk a Putin puppet is ridiculous though considering the amount of aid he has personally given Ukraine.

He’s not a Putin puppet, he’s just an idiot who read two blog posts and now believes he understands the intricate history of the region.

I think it’s important to consider any call for peace as anti-Ukrainian.

Thank you for saying this. The one-sided nature of this aggression makes any call for a “compromise“ hypocrisy at best and supporting the aggressor at worst.

Ukraine has the right to determine when and where they decide to stop fighting, but the west also has the right when to stop supplying arms.

String agree to both.

But at the end of the day peace is the reasonable outcome everyone should want. It’s understandable Zelensky wants to conquer all territory back, but at what cost?

That’s why Zelenskyy has been repeatedly pointing out that decoupaging of Crimea using military means is less likely. Again, Ukraine is not Russia. They value lives and dignity. They will not start a meaningless costly campaign. But the thing is, you never know. The level of incompetence Russia has showed until now makes me hope that there might be a path into Crimea.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

So it seems not to be outdone by Hitler’s claim of a 1,000 year reich that fell short of about 988 years, a good chunk of Putin’s new “forever” territories are back in Ukrainian hands in under a week. I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up accidentally nuking themselves at some point. In fact I find it suspect that it's mostly our military-industrial complex that is touting what an impressive adversary Russia is. It certainly helps them increase their budget. Historically it seems their biggest military asset is the ability to throw an endless line of bodies at it. I don’t think that’s where we are anymore but clearly that’s the tactic they are relying on and it ain’t going great.