The End of the USA

[Huntn]

The title of this thread is not to insist the USA will cease to exist, but asking what are our odds of surviving as a democratic republic?

Sure everything seems normal when you look out your window, but I’ll propose that a shit storm Tsunsmi is forming in DC and it will sweep across the Nation. Authority in DC is basically up for grabs. We have a Congress who are half in on The Con along with a sizable portion of SCOTUS. Right there, we’re in huge trouble,

The Authority of the Federal Government is being subverted to the will of a self serving Gangsta in DC. He has learned from last time. People telling him “no” was bad so he is doing all he can to eliminate this obstacle to finish the job he started last time, installing himself as Supreme Leader. Every vital appointed post is being filled with one qualifier, loyalty to The Emperor. Secondly having a lot of wealth that needs protecting is a plus for The Head Conman’s consideration.

The outcome is that the Federal Govt will no longer be source of truth but one of deceit with the purpose of holding on to power. Lawfulness is a fantasy, instead there is a pretense of lawfulness that acts as a curtain to hide cheating and corruption. When everything starts to fall apart we’re going to get all manner of tall tales from DC.

Yeah, I know some will say this was already the case. My position is whatever it was before, it will be 100x worse and it will lack the intent of maintaining our Republic. The preferred model seems to be Dictator and Oligarchs, our media is converting to Pravda West.

Our civil liberties will suffer when it’s deemed those are a source, not so much of discontentment, but a threat to the power structure, especially free speech. It’s hard not to feel, we’re screwed.

 

[diamond.g]

I'm not sure the US Fed Gov should ever have been considered a source of truth.

 

[Huntn]

I'm not sure the US Fed Gov should ever have been considered a source of truth.

Everything is relative…just don’t make The coup an equivalence argument.

 

[KingOfPain]

I unfortunately cannot find it now, but I recently saw a clip of Chuck Schumer saying that "the roots of democracy run deep".

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record: The constitution of the Weimar Republic was technically still active until the end of WWII, but I bet no one with at least a little bit of knowledge would call Hitler's reign a democracy.
There is definitely precedence of a democracy being undermined to become a fascist dictatorship, which is why I have been warning about this ever since Trump ran again.
Maybe the US constitution is more robust than the Weimar one (I really hope so), but we've already seen lots of cases where the "checks and balances" no longer worked.

 

[Eric]

I'm not sure the US Fed Gov should ever have been considered a source of truth.

Either way they have all of our information and it should be properly protected by those with proper roles and security clearance, not a billionaire madman who has a bunch of his own personal business interests.

The current Republican congress will do nothing when Democrats pushback, but all they can do is try. These fuckers are running this country like the mafia.

 

[Yoused]

In a way, they are bringing the US back to its roots. When the Constitution was ratified, the government was run by a clique of elites. If you did not own a patch of land, you did not vote. Involuntary servitude was not uncommon, especially when one includes indentures. For the most part, the elites were smart enough to understand how much they had to concede in order to keep the plebes reasonably content. It really was closer to fascism than it has been for most of our lives.

Now we have a much smaller clique that has to exert more power than those guys in the 18th/19th century. The reasons for this need for stronger control are kind of complicated, but mostly they need more power because they have been conditioned to need it, in much the same way that we need more things because we have so been conditioned.

The current power elite are not as wise as the founders. They fail to grasp that the more they grab, the tighter they clutch, the harder they stomp, the more difficult the plebes will make it for them. They think all they need is to have all the power, but injudicious use of power is what causes regimes to collapse. This coupled with the economic and environmental failures on the near horizon will result in the kind of organic democracy that brings down he house.

The next few years are not going to be pretty. Americans need to be preparing to get used to things not being like what they are used to.

 

[throAU]

The title of this thread is not to insist the USA will cease to exist, but asking what are our odds of surviving as a democratic republic?

You think you're currently a democratic republic??

Outsider looking in, I don't think that's really been legitimate since at least the turn of the century, probably far before that, but I wasn't politically aware.

 

[Huntn]

You think you're currently a democratic republic??

Outsider looking in, I don't think that's really been legitimate since at least the turn of the century, probably far before that, but I wasn't politically aware.

What’s the label you’d apply?

 

[Huntn]

I unfortunately cannot find it now, but I recently saw a clip of Chuck Schumer saying that "the roots of democracy run deep".

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record: The constitution of the Weimar Republic was technically still active until the end of WWII, but I bet no one with at least a little bit of knowledge would call Hitler's reign a democracy.
There is definitely precedence of a democracy being undermined to become a fascist dictatorship, which is why I have been warning about this ever since Trump ran again.
Maybe the US constitution is more robust than the Weimar one (I really hope so), but we've already seen lots of cases where the "checks and balances" no longer worked.

Checks and balances infer different entities with the same agenda of preserving the status quo. This can easily be argued as the weakness of our democracy.They don’t work now, because there’s a cancer spreading, 50% of Congress, 75% of SCOTUS, and The Head Shitbag who desperately wants to be Emperor nullifies checks and balances.

 

[fooferdoggie]

So forced Christianity on all—nothing like holding up the constitution. Boy the devil is creaming his jeans with his investment in trump.

 

[fooferdoggie]

wrong group

 

[ArgoDuck]

From another outsider looking in, I see what @throAU is getting at…it does seem there was a change in the playbook and methods seen - for example - in (parts of) the house dating back to the 90s. If one considers that period the ‘beginning’ then it’s when the "cancer" - the word @Huntn uses above - started to spread.

Extrapolating from group research, there are many trajectories a society or population can take. A trifling change here or there can make a huge difference decades later. All the worse when a small part of that society sets a long-term goal and plan, especially if it can get hold of some of the levers of power. No group can destroy a society more effectively than one that works from the inside and has all that insider knowledge about the people’s values, aspirations, differences…and hence weak points.

Worse, there’s a hell of a lot here that could hardly have been predicted! Trump!? Plus Musk?! At the same time?!

Last year I expressed a foolhardy hunch, thinking the locked, clearly unbelievable polls reflected a comfortable margin for Harris. @Eric and others were right on the money. Living in a society that in recent decades elected two woman leaders for consecutive terms, I thought it might be Harris’ time…

Since then it strikes me that living in a nation of just 5 million I don’t have the right ‘lens’ to understand your politics or get an accurate ‘feel’ for your people and their concerns. What does strike me though is that the stakes and the lines are surely clearer than ever. Surely those among your population previously disinterested or disillusioned must see the stark choice in front of you all now?

Surely there is something to fight for, now more than ever?

 

[Nycturne]

Surely there is something to fight for, now more than ever?

There always is. But there's never a guarantee of being able to pull it back from the brink. And I'd say it's really hard to accurately judge where we are in the moment. It's also a case that folks will be doing the calculations on protecting their families from the worst of it through flight, or staying and fighting. As both you and throAU point out, this is not a sudden shift, but rather a gradual erosion. And the seeds are probably older than the 90s, although in the 90s you saw the start of the modern obstructionist movement for sure.

It's also a problem that we have what amounts to 3 large economic blocs in the world right now. The US, the EU, and BRICS. I think the real hurdle going forward is what do you do when 2 of the 3 major economic blocs are ostensibly run by authoritarians and oligarchs, and the third is under threat of the same (with help from the other two meddling)? How do you build the momentum required to tear that down? What's required to pull it off (something that's also hard to judge in the moment), and do people have the stomach for it while they are still enamored with the bread and circuses that populism offers?

Since then it strikes me that living in a nation of just 5 million I don’t have the right ‘lens’ to understand your politics or get an accurate ‘feel’ for your people and their concerns.

It's probably better to think of the US as a continent of nations. Because in terms of population, diversity of culture, and economic power, we are. It's just that in the 20th-21st century, our identity to the outside world has been "American". But to label someone "European" when they are really Dutch, German, Norwegian, etc... tends to erase some of the nuance, doesn't it? The same is true here, as my concerns as a Washingtonian are not the concerns of the average Texan. And I don't honestly think that the population as a whole really has a good feel for the things that the nation needs to be doing, but there are a lot of strong opinions on it, and very little of it will ever bring down the price of eggs.

What does strike me though is that the stakes and the lines are surely clearer than ever. Surely those among your population previously disinterested or disillusioned must see the stark choice in front of you all now?

It depends. r/Conservative had a post just the other day of "Why are all these people protesting? We just put on our hat and went to work when we lost." Conveniently ignoring the whole Jan 6th thing, or writing it off as a false flag. And as for the uninterested, how do you convince them that integrity matters if they already believe it's all corrupt and they should just keep their head down and get through the day?

The US population has been the target of a "flood the zone with shit" propaganda effort (both externally and internally). And it's been effective. This is the time where persuasion is basically pointless, and apathy is an all-time high. Because even when you do care your options sometimes feel like leaning into the apathy to make it through, or let the stress eat you alive.

I'll be honest, there are times lately I wonder what things were like in Rome when their "bread and circuses" era was in full swing. What did people talk about, how did they approach the calculus of how to handle it? Same with Germany at the end of the Weimar Republic. I wonder if it was really all that different than what it feels like here in the US.

 

[Katbel]

A lot of people are trying to change the current situation
He can be pretty serious , read the comments too

 

[Huntn]

The Neo-Racist Trump Agenda in all its glory.
This has gone well beyond removing DEI programs, it’s an in our faces attack on social norms, regressive, unbelievable, farscical if it was not actually happening, BUT IT IS HAPPENING.

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/05/nx-s1-5286299/nsa-museum-dei-exhibit-women-people-of-color-trump

https://Twitter or X not allowed/LarryPfeifferDC/status/1885907951132484026?mx=2

The bottom line, removing DEI programs is code word for bring back Racism in all it’s glory. if you are not lilly white, but a lowly minority you will receive no accolades, no recognition, your faces will be covered. See the new directive to wear a bag over your head when you report to work? /S The MAGOTs DON’T WANT TO SEE YOU. They might even have a special place for you to live… or die.

Are we going to allow this to happen? Actually, that remains to be seen.

So forced Christianity on all—nothing like holding up the constitution. Boy the devil is creaming his jeans with his investment in trump.

Man, he is Beelzebub, he does know how to be effectively bad. His supreme accomplishment is revealing all the poor fallen souls who call themselves Christians.

 

[ArgoDuck]

I'll be honest, there are times lately I wonder what things were like in Rome when their "bread and circuses" era was in full swing. What did people talk about, how did they approach the calculus of how to handle it? Same with Germany at the end of the Weimar Republic. I wonder if it was really all that different than what it feels like here in the US.

I love your analysis. I fear your concluding thought may be correct.

 

[throAU]

What’s the label you’d apply?

oligarchy; both parties are just bribed/funded by business.

Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex back in the 60s?

Avalon Project - Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

edit:
to be clear, I'm not singling out the USA on this one, or saying that anywhere else is particularly better.

 

[Huntn]

oligarchy; both parties are just bribed/funded by business.

Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex back in the 60s?

Avalon Project - Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

edit:
to be clear, I'm not singling out the USA on this one, or saying that anywhere else is particularly better.

Ok, I can’t argue with this. When I make arguments about the USA, I’m alluding to how the country was designed by the Founding Fathers, the model it’s supposed to follow, arguably a model we need to return to.

 

[Nycturne]

I love your analysis. I fear your concluding thought may be correct.

Well, the thing is, that concluding thought is me lamenting the loss of this sort of "average person" history. What did people do during the fall of an empire or nation? What worked when trying to organize? What didn’t? Did folks try to strengthen their local communities to look out for each other? Did that help? What hurdles did they face?

It seems like we are seeing people trying to figure this out in real time thanks to the internet, but because history is always about the broad strokes (and who gets to write it), we lost out on these smaller details that could serve as lessons or insight for the next go around. Either on how to prevent it, or ride it out. Something that could certainly help many people who look at the scale of things now and succumb to doom scrolling…

 

[Nycturne]

Ok, I can’t argue with this. When I make arguments about the USA, I’m alluding to how the country was designed by the Founding Fathers, the model it’s supposed to follow, arguably a model we need to return to.

I’m not sure we need to. We don’t need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but even the founding fathers accepted the need for evolution and reform. Those are ideals from the founding of this nation too.