Which will cause more protests, riots, fisticuffs, and other uncivilized behavior?

[yaxomoxay]

So Trump keeps telling us... as they continue to dismantle machines.

They are slowly removing 671 old sorting machines, which will not affect Priority mail (ballots) in any way whatsoever, and it has been earmarked already.

Considering how Covid has also reduced general mail usage, this is truly a non-issue.

 

[Eric]

They are slowly removing 671 old sorting machines, which will not affect Priority mail (ballots) in any way whatsoever, and it has been earmarked already.

Considering how Covid has also reduced general mail usage, this is truly a non-issue.

Yes, 3 months before the election as Trump makes questioning mail-in voting his core issue. You se NO problem or partisanship with this?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They are slowly removing 671 old sorting machines, which will not affect Priority mail (ballots) in any way whatsoever, and it has been earmarked already.

Considering how Covid has also reduced general mail usage, this is truly a non-issue.

In itself, it may indeed, be a non-issue as far as the election is concerned (but, is most certainly not a non-issue where provision of necessary services are under discussion, especially in areas already lacking such infrastructure).

However, when taken in conjunction with other factors, (lack of polling stations in some districts, inadequate or aged machines, the state of the voters' register, re-districting, the number of people behind bars - in percentage terms and in absolute terms, disproportionately from certain ethnic groups, to cite a few of my concerns - some of which have already been set out in the ODIHR/OSCE final report on the mid-term elections in 2018), which, when combined, when taken together, all add up to a clear policy which serves to render the physical action of exercising the franchise more difficult for some, this may be of some concern.

I truly regret that it seems very unlikely that there will be a full ODIHR/OSCE EOM (election observation mission) in the US this year.

I didn't apply in 2016, as I had just returned from Russia, and most likely, would not have been selected (for, the US was considered an "easy" mission at that time, and I was not usually selected to observe elections in "easy" countries or political environments) - and, although I was invited to consider submitting an application to observe the elections in 2018, I decided not to submit one.

 

[Renzatic]

Yes, 3 months before the election as Trump makes questioning mail-in voting his core issue. You se NO problem or partisanship with this?

He does have a point here, Yax.

 

[yaxomoxay]

However, when taken in conjunction with other factors, (lack of polling stations in some districts, inadequate or aged machines, the state of the voters' register, re-districting, the number of people behind bars

None of the above is a Federal government issue.

 

[Renzatic]

None of the above is a Federal government issue.

In normal situations, no. But when you have a singular group of people with common goals and interests working in concert to commit to enforcing similar restrictions across the various states under their purview, it becomes something a little more.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Yes, 3 months before the election as Trump makes questioning mail-in voting his core issue. You se NO problem or partisanship with this?

1) The issue for Trump is automatic mail-in voting, and the issue is not on the "mailing in" side but on the receiving (voter's) end. The issue is not absentee voting.

2) The machines removal thing has been going on for at least a decade.

Read this Politico (left-leaning and certainly not Pro-Trump) article:

Opinion | 5 Myths About the Postal Crisis

And why Congress might be coming back to fix all the wrong problems.

www.politico.com

Can we now call this BS, on both sides, for what it is? Bullshit.

 

[yaxomoxay]

In normal situations, no. But when you have a singular group of people with common goals and interests working in concert to commit to enforcing similar restrictions across the various states under their purview, it becomes something a little more.

Groups can try as much as they want, but things are not so easy to do especially when it comes to voting. While some shady practices are undeniable, the voting process is somewhat solid.

 

[yaxomoxay]

He does have a point here, Yax.

See the Politico article. Also, if I recall correctly, they stopped all the operations.

 

[Eric]

1) The issue for Trump is automatic mail-in voting, and the issue is not on the "mailing in" side but on the receiving (voter's) end. The issue is not absentee voting.

2) The machines removal thing has been going on for at least a decade.

Read this Politico (left-leaning and certainly not Pro-Trump) article:

Opinion | 5 Myths About the Postal Crisis

And why Congress might be coming back to fix all the wrong problems.

www.politico.com

Can we now call this BS, on both sides, for what it is? Bullshit.

Absolutely not, this is not a case of "both sides need to stop". It's 100% Trump's fault. The willingness to say it's not partisan or political under these circumstances is frankly mind boggling.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Absolutely not, this is not a case of "both sides need to stop". It's 100% Trump's fault. The willingness to say it's not partisan or political under these circumstances is frankly mind boggling.

As the Dude said... well, your opinion, man.

 

[Renzatic]

Groups can try as much as they want, but things are not so easy to do especially when it comes to voting. While some shady practices are undeniable, the voting process is somewhat solid.

Once someone's in the booth, the process itself is solid. You can assure that their vote will be counted as intended 99.847% of the time. The problem is it can be rather easy to stymie some people's attempts to involve themselves in that process.

Nothing the Republicans do has been outright illegal. But it is obvious that they do, on occasion, try to make it more difficult for some people to cast their votes. I'm not talking about voter IDs, which I've always been rather neutral on, but closing precincts, or making last minute changes to voter rolls.

And then there's Trump, who's claims and actions are undermining our faith in the system entirely.

 

[yaxomoxay]

And then there's Trump, who's claims and actions are undermining our faith in the system entirely.

I don’t disagree with this, but I can’t fail to notice that it’s now extended to both parties, which was my simple, initial point.

 

[Eric]

Once someone's in the booth, the process itself is solid. You can assure that their vote will be counted as intended 99.847% of the time. The problem is it can be rather easy to stymie some people's attempts to involve themselves in that process.

Nothing the Republicans do has been outright illegal. But it is obvious that they do, on occasion, try to make it more difficult for some people to cast their votes. I'm not talking about voter IDs, which I've always been rather neutral on, but closing precincts, or making last minute changes to voter rolls.

And then there's Trump, who's claims and actions are undermining our faith in the system entirely.

To top this off, those who have either lost the ability to vote by mail or have lost confidence in it will stand in lines which will lead to more cases of COVID and subsequently more deaths. Their goal is to keep everyone from having a voice, it helps them and even Trump only admitted to this and their ability to legally block lower income/class voters has been very successful. The problem is that democracy as a whole is the biggest loser.

 

[yaxomoxay]

To top this off, those who have either lost the ability to vote by mail or have lost confidence in it will stand in lines which will lead to more cases of COVID and subsequently more deaths

They can request an absentee ballot, no one is arguing with that.

 

[Renzatic]

I don’t disagree with this, but I can’t fail to notice that it’s now extended to both parties, which was my simple, initial point.

Democrats have bitched about potentially unfair disadvantages since SCOTUS nixed part of the Voting Rights Act in 2013, but they've never gone so far as to claim it's outright rigged against them like Trump has.

 

[SuperMatt]

They can request an absentee ballot, no one is arguing with that.

Some states are sending everybody a ballot this year because it's assumed the virus won't be contained by Nov 3. That is the best choice for protecting public health. Considering lots of people already vote by mail and everybody's voter registration includes their address, the implication that it will lead to fraud is a straight-up lie. Just Trump thinking if he limits voting, he might win.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Democrats have bitched about potentially unfair disadvantages since SCOTUS nixed part of the Voting Rights Act in 2013, but they've never gone so far as to claim it's outright rigged against them like Trump has.

Well, I recall some issues in 2000
And trump is dead wrong on this, let me repeat it. Dead wrong.

 

[Renzatic]

To top this off, those who have either lost the ability to vote by mail or have lost confidence in it will stand in lines which will lead to more cases of COVID and subsequently more deaths. Their goal is to keep everyone from having a voice, it helps them and even Trump only admitted to this and their ability to legally block lower income/class voters has been very successful. The problem is that democracy as a whole is the biggest loser.

Right now, I'd say Trump's primary goal isn't to prevent people from voting specifically, but to spread enough FUD about the process to justify him pitching a fit if he loses in November.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Some states are sending everybody a ballot this year because it's assumed the virus won't be contained by Nov 3. That is the best choice for protecting public health. Considering lots of people already vote by mail and everybody's voter registration includes their address, the implication that it will lead to fraud is a straight-up lie. Just Trump thinking if he limits voting, he might win.

People will move and die between the time the ballot is sent and between the time the ballot arrives at home. Voter registration rolls are quite bad records in many parts of the country.