Apple Vision Pro…. Anybody buying?

[throAU]

If I had this much money laying around I'd get one

this. but i’ll buy in at v3

 

[Citysnaps]

Hololens has been playing around with using it in industry: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/industry-manufacturing#tabx528db880a883468fb2f7c24e38d159cf

Question I have is more about the impacts. Making it so AR can walk you through industrial processes you aren't familiar with is interesting, but I half expect it winds up leading folks to think that skilled labor can be reclassified as unskilled and basically go "let the goggles train them".

I'm just spitballing, but...

I can see AR being used in industrial plant inspections doing walkthroughs and being able to quickly summon up procedures, documents, safety requirements, etc., if necessary, and being able to quickly identify potential problems (and solutions) when anomalies are discovered. And being able to make photographs for documentation.

At the other end of the spectrum I can see car insurance adjusters using an AR headset to quickly assess car accident damage and being able to access replacement parts, and produce cost estimates.

Or at some point in time as costs go down and proper software is available, perhaps exterior building/house painters using an AR headset to quickly generate quotations by walking around the exterior/interior and AR software computing square footage (excluding out, say windows), and producing a quote for materials and estimated labor.

 

[throAU]

Hololens has been playing around with using it in industry: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/industry-manufacturing#tabx528db880a883468fb2f7c24e38d159cf

Question I have is more about the impacts. Making it so AR can walk you through industrial processes you aren't familiar with is interesting, but I half expect it winds up leading folks to think that skilled labor can be reclassified as unskilled and basically go "let the goggles train them".

We have a couple of HoloLens units that we used to remotely support mining equipment during Covid restrictions.

Is it an all day every day device? No!

It’s a tool to do a job and sometimes I think that if a device can’t be used all day to replace something else people deem it a failure.

3-5k spend is not a consumer device. It’s a tool. And if that tool can negate the need for say, flying a contractor technician to site on a 1 week trip at 2 grand a day or whatever then it pays for itself in short order. Especially if it means the plant that earns $10,000 an hour is fixed in 4 hours instead of 4 days, too.

HoloLens lets a remote tech see through your eyes over the internet. So you hook the guy on site up with a product expert to help diagnose.

You can literally draw a big arrow pointing at something in his or her vision.

 

[Andropov]

I'd buy one but it's not launching outside the US

 

[Alli]

I'd buy one but it's not launching outside the US

Convenient excuse, eh?

 

[tomO2013]

One thing that struck me as a little strange is that Apple Vision Pro is launching with the M2 processor instead of the M3.

Gotta wonder if it’s a case that other aspects of the product development delayed the launch from an originally intended 2023?!?

 

[Cmaier]

One thing that struck me as a little strange is that Apple Vision Pro is launching with the M2 processor instead of the M3.

Gotta wonder if it’s a case that other aspects of the product development delayed the launch from an originally intended 2023?!?

I doubt it. For a new product category, it’s very typical of Apple to be conservative with the CPU choice. I would imagine that in the future they will be using special variants of M-series chips, optimized for power consumption, but I guess we’ll see.

 

[Andropov]

Convenient excuse, eh?

Hehe, tbh I didn't hate that the decision was taken for me this time around

One thing that struck me as a little strange is that Apple Vision Pro is launching with the M2 processor instead of the M3.

Gotta wonder if it’s a case that other aspects of the product development delayed the launch from an originally intended 2023?!?

First-generation Apple products have always been a little crippled in some aspects. Many 1st gen products were replaced by substantially faster versions: the first iPad, the first Apple Watch... Note for example, how the 1st iPad only got support until iOS 5 while the iPad 2, released the next year, got support up to iOS 9!

I guess with a first generation product many things have to come into place at the same time, and risking including a SoC that may or may not be finished on time is possibly not the highest priority. Imagine the M3 being delayed and Apple failing to release the Apple Vision on time because of this.

 

[theorist9]

I'm just spitballing, but...

I can see AR being used in industrial plant inspections doing walkthroughs and being able to quickly summon up procedures, documents, safety requirements, etc., if necessary, and being able to quickly identify potential problems (and solutions) when anomalies are discovered. And being able to make photographs for documentation.

At the other end of the spectrum I can see car insurance adjusters using an AR headset to quickly assess car accident damage and being able to access replacement parts, and produce cost estimates.

Or at some point in time as costs go down and proper software is available, perhaps exterior building/house painters using an AR headset to quickly generate quotations by walking around the exterior/interior and AR software computing square footage (excluding out, say windows), and producing a quote for materials and estimated labor.

Interesting ideas--it seems the industrial application is how HoloLens is used now:

HoloLens in Manufacturing: Speeding Up Through AR

Increased adoption of HoloLens has paved the way to augmented reality manufacturing. Let's explore the benefits of AR and HoloLens in manufacturing.

www.ediiie.com

Hands on with Apple Vision Pro in the wild - Apple Vision Pro Discussions on AppleInsider Forums

There are a few Apple Vision Pro headsets out in the wild, and recently we got a chance to use one of them. Here's what we thought.

forums.appleinsider.com

I think if you're walking through potentially hazardous industrial sites, you'd want unobstructed downward peripheral vision, to avoid tripping over things or accidentally falling down a flight of stairs whose beginning you didn't see. Based on the side views, Hololens appears to provide some of that, while Apple's Vision appears not to--at least not directly. With Apple's Vision, you'd be relying on its outward-facing sensors to detect such hazards to help keep you safe. It might work reliably, but that would have to be tested and confirmed.

Dermatology diagnosis could be another application. The advantage over scanning with a smartphone is that it ensures nothing is missed as a result of the doctor not scanning everywhere -- it looks everywhere the doctor does.

 

[theorist9]

I think the Vision Pro's tougest sell will be as a replacement for a multi-monitor desktop setup.

1) Typically, people who have multi-monitor desktop setups employ them for all-day use. I personally can lose track of time and forget to take breaks with my current 3-monitor setup, which is only possible because I feel no fatigue using it for an extended period of time (plus with different monitors you need to turn your head and change your focus distance, even though I have them "curved" around me, as it typical). I would expect using AR is going to be inherently more fatiguing, even with frequent breaks:

a) With AR you have an unavoidable vergence-accommodation conflict (VAC). Apple's Vision Pro has methods to mitigate that, but I don't think they'll be able to eliminate it entirely.

I also wonder if this would be exacerbated if you had to work with very small fonts in order to display all your data. Plus, when I need to do that, I'll just move my head closer to the screen to read them, since I don't want to give up displaying the whole spreadsheet, and thus don't want to zoom. Can you "move your head closer" with the Vision Pro?

b) The weight.

c) Just having something resting on your face.

2) It won't be able to offer the tactile feedback, and precision, of a physical keyboard.

So their picture of people working in offices using this in place of a traditional desktop setup seems like a reach--unless those folks are doing 3D design work; and even there I don't think they'd want to do most of their work using AR; it would just be too fatiguing..

Where it would make much more sense for office-type work, at least for me, would be if you are working remotely, and thus have only a laptop, but the laptop's screen is much too small for the work you need to do. There, if you connected it to the laptop, you'd have the physical keyboard and trackpad, and the significant increase in monitor real estate would be worth the tradeoff.

Finally, I'd be interested to see how sharp this really is. It's supposed to offer pixels-per-degree comparable to that of a Retina external display at normal viewing distances. But if you are dealing with small fonts, is it really as sharp? E.g., do you lose some sharpness because of VAC?

 

[Cmaier]

I think the Vision Pro's tougest sell will be as a replacement for a multi-monitor desktop setup.

1) Typically, people who have multi-monitor desktop setups employ them for all-day use. I personally can lose track of time and forget to take breaks with my current 3-monitor setup, which is only possible because I feel no fatigue using it for an extended period of time (plus with different monitors you need to turn your head and change your focus distance, even though I have them "curved" around me, as it typical). I would expect using AR is going to be inherently more fatiguing, even with frequent breaks:

a) With AR you have an unavoidable vergence-accommodation conflict (VAC). Apple's Vision Pro has methods to mitigate that, but I don't think they'll be able to eliminate it entirely.

I also wonder if this would be exacerbated if you had to work with very small fonts in order to display all your data. Plus, when I need to do that, I'll just move my head closer to the screen to read them, since I don't want to give up displaying the whole spreadsheet, and thus don't want to zoom. Can you "move your head closer" with the Vision Pro?

b) The weight.

c) Just having something resting on your face.

2) It won't be able to substiute for the tactile feedback, and the precision, of a physical keyboard.

So their picture of people working in offices using this in place of a traditional desktop setup seems like a reach--unless those folks are doing 3D design work; and even there I don't think they'd want to do most of their work using AR; it would just be too fatiguing..

Where it would make much more sense for office-type work, at least for me, would be if you are working remotely, and thus have only a laptop, but the laptop's screen is much too small for the work you need to do. There, if you connected it to the laptop, you'd have the physical keyboard and trackpad, and the significant increase in monitor real estate would be worth the tradeoff.

Finally, I'd be interested to see how sharp this really is. It's supposed to offer pixels-per-degree comparable to that of a Retina external display at normal viewing distances. But if you are dealing with small fonts, is it really as sharp? E.g., do you lose some sharpness because of VAC?

At least on the “move your head closer to zoom” thing, I think the answer is yes? My understanding is that windows are pinned in space, not pinned relative to your face. In that case you should be able to get closer to them and hopefully they get bigger as appropriate?

But, like you, I have my doubts about all of this.

 

[Citysnaps]

Interesting ideas--it seems the industrial application is how Hololens is used now:

HoloLens in Manufacturing: Speeding Up Through AR

Increased adoption of HoloLens has paved the way to augmented reality manufacturing. Let's explore the benefits of AR and HoloLens in manufacturing.

www.ediiie.com

Hands on with Apple Vision Pro in the wild - Apple Vision Pro Discussions on AppleInsider Forums

There are a few Apple Vision Pro headsets out in the wild, and recently we got a chance to use one of them. Here's what we thought.

forums.appleinsider.com

I think if you're walking through potentially hazardous industrial sites, you'd want unobstructed downward peripheral vision, to avoid tripping over things or accidentally falling down a flight of stairs whose beginning you didn't see. Based on the side views, Hololens appears to provide some of that, while Apple's Vision appears not to--at least not directly. With Apple's Vision, you'd be relying on its outward-facing sensors to detect such hazards to help keep you safe. It might work reliably, but that would have to be tested and confirmed.

Dermatology diagnosis could be another application. The advantage over scanning with a smartphone is that it ensures nothing is missed as a result of the doctor not scanning everywhere -- it looks everywhere the doctor does.

That was a very thoughtful and thorough (for this point in time) review. No doubt more will come later as apps come to the market. Personally, I'm not that interested in multi-computer displays (just don't have a need); but rather AR/VR applications, similar to what I spitballed above.

Thanks!

 

[dada_dave]

I think the Vision Pro's tougest sell will be as a replacement for a multi-monitor desktop setup.

1) Typically, people who have multi-monitor desktop setups employ them for all-day use. I personally can lose track of time and forget to take breaks with my current 3-monitor setup, which is only possible because I feel no fatigue using it for an extended period of time (plus with different monitors you need to turn your head and change your focus distance, even though I have them "curved" around me, as it typical). I would expect using AR is going to be inherently more fatiguing, even with frequent breaks:

a) With AR you have an unavoidable vergence-accommodation conflict (VAC). Apple's Vision Pro has methods to mitigate that, but I don't think they'll be able to eliminate it entirely.

I also wonder if this would be exacerbated if you had to work with very small fonts in order to display all your data. Plus, when I need to do that, I'll just move my head closer to the screen to read them, since I don't want to give up displaying the whole spreadsheet, and thus don't want to zoom. Can you "move your head closer" with the Vision Pro?

b) The weight.

c) Just having something resting on your face.

2) It won't be able to substiute for the tactile feedback, and the precision, of a physical keyboard.

So their picture of people working in offices using this in place of a traditional desktop setup seems like a reach--unless those folks are doing 3D design work; and even there I don't think they'd want to do most of their work using AR; it would just be too fatiguing..

Where it would make much more sense for office-type work, at least for me, would be if you are working remotely, and thus have only a laptop, but the laptop's screen is much too small for the work you need to do. There, if you connected it to the laptop, you'd have the physical keyboard and trackpad, and the significant increase in monitor real estate would be worth the tradeoff.

Finally, I'd be interested to see how sharp this really is. It's supposed to offer pixels-per-degree comparable to that of a Retina external display at normal viewing distances. But if you are dealing with small fonts, is it really as sharp? E.g., do you lose some sharpness because of VAC?

From what I’ve heard, I think the weight will be a significant issue for use over an hour or even more than 30 minutes depending on the user’s comfort. Of course that’s a very personal thing so some people may get the full 2 hours of battery life and feel fine.

I liked your AppleInsider hands on link - mostly because it reinforced my preconceptions : it’s a really cool device with some already neat applications but it’ll be future iterations of the Vision Pro that will determine if it’s a mass market success. We should expect a slow burn of adoption rather than a wildfire.

 

[exoticspice1]

From what I’ve heard, I think the weight will be a significant issue for use over an hour or even more than 30 minutes depending on the user’s comfort. Of course that’s a very personal thing so some people may get the full 2 hours of battery life and feel fine.

People won't do AAA gaming on this device or even basic story games, movies longer than 2hrs have to plugged and that also means forget binge watching shows.

This device needs at least the battery life of an MBA for the price. There is only 1% more that this device does that Mac/iPad can't already do. I think it may take 10 years for this to mature.

 

[Herdfan]

Am I misremembering this movie?

In one of the Pro Vision commercials, it is a clip of Michael J Fox and Christopher Lloyd and a girl from Back to the Future. They are in the Delorean.

It looks to be the last scene of the movie when he says "Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads."

But the girl on MJF's lap is Elisabeth Shue. The problem is Claudia Wells played Jennifer in original. Shue played Jennifer in II.

Did they use the same line in II?

 

[Cmaier]

People won't do AAA gaming on this device or even basic story games, movies longer than 2hrs have to plugged and that also means forget binge watching shows.

Who binge watches a show without sitting down near an outlet?

Just like my MBP is always plugged in, and my iPad is usually plugged in, I imagine my Vision Pro will generally be plugged in.

 

[exoticspice1]

Who binge watches a show without sitting down near an outlet?

Just like my MBP is always plugged in, and my iPad is usually plugged in, I imagine my Vision Pro will generally be plugged in.

My concern is the weight too. With a Mac/iPad you can watch for hrs without any issue. I guess Apple's next priority would be reducing the weight of the device and still make it look premium.

 

[dada_dave]

People won't do AAA gaming on this device or even basic story games, movies longer than 2hrs have to plugged and that also means forget binge watching shows.

This device needs at least the battery life of an MBA for the price. There is only 1% more that this device does that Mac/iPad can't already do. I think it may take 10 years for this to mature.

Prognostication that far out is out of my wheelhouse. I find technology to move faster, slower, and sideways more often than expected to predict hard numbers for anything past a couple of years out.

As for what will the use cases be for this 1st generation device I tend to think at the price point and general characteristics, I agree with @theorist9 that this 1st generation will be utility (and enthusiast) device first but also we’ll see the first generation of broader applications as people experiment.

I can see all sorts of paths the Vision Pro might take, but honestly which of those paths, the utility that people will discover, and especially specific timetables for maturation are beyond me.

 

[dada_dave]

Am I misremembering this movie?

In one of the Pro Vision commercials, it is a clip of Michael J Fox and Christopher Lloyd and a girl from Back to the Future. They are in the Delorean.

It looks to be the last scene of the movie when he says "Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads."

But the girl on MJF's lap is Elisabeth Shue. The problem is Claudia Wells played Jennifer in original. Shue played Jennifer in II.

Did they use the same line in II?

I can’t remember exactly but I think they may have repeated the last scene of the first move at the beginning of the second.

 

[tomO2013]

I doubt it. For a new product category, it’s very typical of Apple to be conservative with the CPU choice. I would imagine that in the future they will be using special variants of M-series chips, optimized for power consumption, but I guess we’ll see.

That’s a really good point actually! Makes sense.