Trump incited a mob to storm the Capitol because he wanted his VP to help him steal an election, he told the proud boys to stand back and stand by, he repeatedly claims he didn't lose in 2020 to inflame his followers, he declares any attempt to make him account for his actions a witch hunt, and he said he'd be a dictator on day 1, to name just a few. What about that makes you think he isn't a threat to democracy? Remember when he won in 2016 and the talking heads assured us he'd pivot toward being presidential? That sure worked out well for the country.
Classified documents found in former Biden office
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MEJHarrison
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That's fair. While not a medical professional, he should be a good judge of how someone might appear to a jury. I'll give you that one.
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How is a man who denies elections, does not commit to a peaceful transfer of power, clings to disproven conspiracy theories, constantly praises dictators, tried to have a military parade in his honor, obstructs attempts to retain classified documents, and consistently lies and attacks anyone he disagrees with not a threat to democracy? How? This is the part I don’t understand.
What would Trump have to do for those who don’t believe he’s a threat democracy to prove it? Most dictators or wannabe fascists aren’t going to say “My goal is to subvert democracy and win regardless of what the voters want.” No, they will do what Trump does, which is everything but say it out loud.
Someone help me here. I want to be wrong and believe he’s just a narcissist. That’s not what the evidence shows. Most dictators are narcissists, so calling him “just a narcissist” while ignoring what he does because of that character trait is the problem.
Forgetfulness is different than fitness for trial. One could be forgetful of something and still stand trial. The report even suggests itself how Biden could be forgetful without it being a cognitive issue, such as his tenure and routine of being exposed to classified material. They mention how the evidence doesn’t meet standards to prosecute based on precedent, irrespective of his mental faculties.
The report seemed to go a step beyond by emphasizing his forgetfulness. The truth is, much of that could have been left out and not changed the results that much, if at all, which begs the question of why it was put there in the first place. Saying “the jury could view him as forgetful and sympathetic” is true, but enough. I doubt the prosecutor is trained beyond that point.
If there’s usually a trained expert to assess those types of things, it seems odd that he would have those same capabilities, but I could always be wrong.
What would Trump have to do for those who don’t believe he’s a threat democracy to prove it? Most dictators or wannabe fascists aren’t going to say “My goal is to subvert democracy and win regardless of what the voters want.” No, they will do what Trump does, which is everything but say it out loud.
Someone help me here. I want to be wrong and believe he’s just a narcissist. That’s not what the evidence shows. Most dictators are narcissists, so calling him “just a narcissist” while ignoring what he does because of that character trait is the problem.
Forgetfulness is different than fitness for trial. One could be forgetful of something and still stand trial. The report even suggests itself how Biden could be forgetful without it being a cognitive issue, such as his tenure and routine of being exposed to classified material. They mention how the evidence doesn’t meet standards to prosecute based on precedent, irrespective of his mental faculties.
The report seemed to go a step beyond by emphasizing his forgetfulness. The truth is, much of that could have been left out and not changed the results that much, if at all, which begs the question of why it was put there in the first place. Saying “the jury could view him as forgetful and sympathetic” is true, but enough. I doubt the prosecutor is trained beyond that point.
If there’s usually a trained expert to assess those types of things, it seems odd that he would have those same capabilities, but I could always be wrong.
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CNN has a pretty good piece on age-related cognitive decline:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/09/health/cognitive-ability-age/index.html
It includes the following from Dr. Angela Roberts, an assistant professor of communication sciences and computer science at Western University who researches aging and speech signatures that detect cognitive decline:
Roberts described the report’s claims as “very troubling” and not rooted in science. “It’s not the comments I have concern with; it’s the attributing it to age and what that does from an ageist perspective in society,” she said. She also said that trouble with word recall is not automatically indicative of memory problems.
“We have a special counsel describing this as a memory issue, and it may or may not be a memory issue. It may be that, in that moment when the question was asked, the individual just had difficulty retrieving the word or didn’t retrieve it fast enough,” Roberts said. “Whether or not it’s a memory issue is really a clinical judgment.”
Society has spent a lot of time shifting how we talk about one another from a racial, cultural or gender perspective, Roberts said, but ageism remains very much codified.
And multiple legal experts have commented that Hur had no business making statements about Biden's memory in his report, especially since he's not qualified to draw the conclusions he did.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/09/health/cognitive-ability-age/index.html
It includes the following from Dr. Angela Roberts, an assistant professor of communication sciences and computer science at Western University who researches aging and speech signatures that detect cognitive decline:
Roberts described the report’s claims as “very troubling” and not rooted in science. “It’s not the comments I have concern with; it’s the attributing it to age and what that does from an ageist perspective in society,” she said. She also said that trouble with word recall is not automatically indicative of memory problems.
“We have a special counsel describing this as a memory issue, and it may or may not be a memory issue. It may be that, in that moment when the question was asked, the individual just had difficulty retrieving the word or didn’t retrieve it fast enough,” Roberts said. “Whether or not it’s a memory issue is really a clinical judgment.”
Society has spent a lot of time shifting how we talk about one another from a racial, cultural or gender perspective, Roberts said, but ageism remains very much codified.
And multiple legal experts have commented that Hur had no business making statements about Biden's memory in his report, especially since he's not qualified to draw the conclusions he did.
I was told his mix ups and forgetting of words was due to his stutter.
I don’t disagree in principle with Dr. Roberts comments here regarding the fact word retrieval is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline or any deficit to cognition.
I also agree that misspeaking, such as confusing two countries or peoples names, is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline. This happens all the time for people, including those in their prime. The stress/anxiety/preoccupation of public speaking makes this all the more likely. And when you’re a world leader, there’s so many names of people it’s understandable names may get mixed up.
That said, my assessment of Biden’s cognitive health is based on a constellation of symptoms. Dr. Roberts is cherry picking the language component. The inability to recall content (rather than verbalize it) is like forgetting his son’s year of death or what years he served as VP are troubling because they are some of the most profound event’s in Biden’s life. It’s not a trivial question like “what year did you replace that faucet in your house”. When it comes to his date
There’s also the behavioral dimension such as him routinely “getting lost” when exiting the stage. This happens quite often. There’s been reports Biden has quite a temper with his staff- this could be entirely normal for him. What’s seems less normal is when he has outbursts with constituents (ie calling a guy fat and challenging him to push-ups, challenging another to a fight)- that’s not typical for politicians campaigning. He appears to be rather irritable at times (and in situations he should be able to control it) which is a common facet of dementia.
He alap displays an alarming level of confabulation- episodic: the creation of false stories from real memories and semantic: false stories from commonly known info. Biden routinely tells stories or things that did not happen- like his son dying in Iraq. Confabulators do not know their memories are false/inaccurate. It seems to be a mechanism to fill gaps in memory. This symptom is most commonly seen in dementia and is commonly exhibited early in the progression.
Separate from this is how Biden’s administration has shielded him from the public- long after COVID. Sit down interviews are few and far between. His aids frequently stop him from answering questions. There have been the cheat sheets that contain awfully specific details well beyond basic notes like when to sit down and what question a journalists will ask. He’s taken more vacation than any president- including Trump who was widely mocked. All of this suggests they believe Biden is a liability. I don’t know what else explains this behavior, especially given
From a legal standpoint I do find it interesting the prosecutor made the an assessment regarding his memory recall without ordering a medical evaluation. Medical evaluations are not uncommon in legal cases. I would be curious to know to what extent prosecutors are able to make their own assessments
That said, Dr. Roberts seems to be putting considerable spin on this. Her accusation of “ageism” is tawdry and demonstrates her own bias. Other politicians are the same age as Biden or older- like Liz Warren and Bernie. No one has said either is too old. Some people’s minds age better than others.
What I don’t think some people understand and what his admin likes to exploit is that dementia is not a static condition. There are good days, there are bad days. Things can change throughout the day. But a president is needs to be competent all the time.
My concern of Biden’s health has nothing to do with his or my politics, but out of concern for him and frankly the country having a sound leader - even if I didn’t vote for him. I think HRC is a disgusting human being, but I vehemently defended her against the absurd claims about her health and the bizarre criticism about her use of Amor Thyroid.
MAGA, MAGA, MAGA!I was told his mix ups and forgetting of words was due to his stutter.
I don’t disagree in principle with Dr. Roberts comments here regarding the fact word retrieval is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline or any deficit to cognition.
I also agree that misspeaking, such as confusing two countries or peoples names, is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline. This happens all the time for people, including those in their prime. The stress/anxiety/preoccupation of public speaking makes this all the more likely. And when you’re a world leader, there’s so many names of people it’s understandable names may get mixed up.
That said, my assessment of Biden’s cognitive health is based on a constellation of symptoms. Dr. Roberts is cherry picking the language component. The inability to recall content (rather than verbalize it) is like forgetting his son’s year of death or what years he served as VP are troubling because they are some of the most profound event’s in Biden’s life. It’s not a trivial question like “what year did you replace that faucet in your house”. When it comes to his date
There’s also the behavioral dimension such as him routinely “getting lost” when exiting the stage. This happens quite often. There’s been reports Biden has quite a temper with his staff- this could be entirely normal for him. What’s seems less normal is when he has outbursts with constituents (ie calling a guy fat and challenging him to push-ups, challenging another to a fight)- that’s not typical for politicians campaigning. He appears to be rather irritable at times (and in situations he should be able to control it) which is a common facet of dementia.
He alap displays an alarming level of confabulation- episodic: the creation of false stories from real memories and semantic: false stories from commonly known info. Biden routinely tells stories or things that did not happen- like his son dying in Iraq. Confabulators do not know their memories are false/inaccurate. It seems to be a mechanism to fill gaps in memory. This symptom is most commonly seen in dementia and is commonly exhibited early in the progression.
Separate from this is how Biden’s administration has shielded him from the public- long after COVID. Sit down interviews are few and far between. His aids frequently stop him from answering questions. There have been the cheat sheets that contain awfully specific details well beyond basic notes like when to sit down and what question a journalists will ask. He’s taken more vacation than any president- including Trump who was widely mocked. All of this suggests they believe Biden is a liability. I don’t know what else explains this behavior, especially given
From a legal standpoint I do find it interesting the prosecutor made the an assessment regarding his memory recall without ordering a medical evaluation. Medical evaluations are not uncommon in legal cases. I would be curious to know to what extent prosecutors are able to make their own assessments
That said, Dr. Roberts seems to be putting considerable spin on this. Her accusation of “ageism” is tawdry and demonstrates her own bias. Other politicians are the same age as Biden or older- like Liz Warren and Bernie. No one has said either is too old. Some people’s minds age better than others.
What I don’t think some people understand and what his admin likes to exploit is that dementia is not a static condition. There are good days, there are bad days. Things can change throughout the day. But a president is needs to be competent all the time.
My concern of Biden’s health has nothing to do with his or my politics, but out of concern for him and frankly the country having a sound leader - even if I didn’t vote for him. I think HRC is a disgusting human being, but I vehemently defended her against the absurd claims about her health and the bizarre criticism about her use of Amor Thyroid.
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I want a fully-detailed report of Trump - who incited an insurrection and tried to overturn a presidential election - and his mental faculties and cognitive abilities based on a similar “constellation of symptoms”, like tens of thousands of inane social posts, all-caps rants, affinity for dictators, dinner with anti-semites. stutters, misstatements, white replacement theory, disrespect of veterans, disregard for the rule of law and incessant lying.
Where is the detailed analysis? Let’s hear that first, then revisit whether or not Biden is merely too old and incapacitated, which is a magnitude of difference between being both of those in addition to a criminal lunatic who seeks to dismantle the same system he uses to protect himself to assume power for himself.
Seriously.
Where is the detailed analysis? Let’s hear that first, then revisit whether or not Biden is merely too old and incapacitated, which is a magnitude of difference between being both of those in addition to a criminal lunatic who seeks to dismantle the same system he uses to protect himself to assume power for himself.
Seriously.
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“At trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,”
In a perfect world, the above should be required. Instead, we're 10 months from the presidential election. And with loads of obfuscation thrown out there to maximally delay his criminal trials, with no certainty trump will even be facing justice for the 91 felonies he's been charged with. That, with the current level of support trump appears to have is totally insane.
If I were confident that trump has a zero chance of winning the election I wouldn't be worried. But... for me, that's not where we're at today.
The late evening of election night 2016, with George Stephanopoulos breaking the news ashen faced and having trouble speaking, reporting trump had won the election, is still fresh in my mind.
I want a fully-detailed report of Trump - who incited an insurrection and tried to overturn a presidential election - and his mental faculties and cognitive abilities based on a similar “constellation of symptoms”, like tens of thousands of inane social posts, all-caps rants, affinity for dictators, dinner with anti-semites. stutters, misstatements, white replacement theory, disrespect of veterans, disregard for the rule of law and incessant lying.
Where is the detailed analysis? Let’s hear that first, then revisit whether or not Biden is merely too old and incapacitated, which is a magnitude of difference between being both of those in addition to a criminal lunatic who seeks to dismantle the same system he uses to protect himself to assume power for himself.
Seriously.
In a perfect world, the above should be required. Instead, we're 10 months from the presidential election. And with loads of obfuscation thrown out there to maximally delay his criminal trials, with no certainty trump will even be facing justice for the 91 felonies he's been charged with. That, with the current level of support trump appears to have is totally insane.
If I were confident that trump has a zero chance of winning the election I wouldn't be worried. But... for me, that's not where we're at today.
The late evening of election night 2016, with George Stephanopoulos breaking the news ashen faced and having trouble speaking, reporting trump had won the election, is still fresh in my mind.
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From what I can discern, not as a lawyer, the prosecutor had to determine whether or not Biden had intent. Did he knowingly take the documents and share classified info (ie with his ghost writer). One aspect of that to explore, especially given his age, is would he been likely able to remember what was classified and what on was not. And while reviewing evidence relevant to the case there were signs of memory impairment.
I still think it would have been appropriate to have a medical evaluation or consult a doctor.
I do wish the document excluded the comment about forgetting Boe’s year of death… or at least rephrase it be less specific. Just to have some respect and compassion.
So either Biden’s memory is poor and this was all an honest mistake, or he pretended to have a poor memory to manipulate the prosecutors which would suggest criminal intent.
I think it’s pretty shameful of the democratic elite to use every excuse in the book to discredit the reports findings. The gaslighting needs to stop already. It only makes it worse.
The DNC had every opportunity to find another candidates. Instead they made it as hard as possible for any primary challengers to run. Some states, like mine, outright refused to hold primaries despite contenders meeting the criteria. Talk about being Democratic.
Biden’s mental acuity is a well recognized problem. 70% of Americans now report having concerns. I suspect we’ll learn a more in the coming months. Clearly his administration knows he’s not doing so hot. But they decided he was the one and only option. They could have run someone else. They shot themselves in the foot on this one and have no one to blame for themselves.
You really have to wonder what they were thinking.
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As mentioned, I could not recall the year (let alone month) of the death of both of my parents, does that mean I'm on the decline? I would ask anyone of those judging this to be put on the spot without prior knowledge to the questions to recall specific dates, even of a tragedy like that, that happened so long ago. Sorry, but this is a load of bullshit.I was told his mix ups and forgetting of words was due to his stutter.
I don’t disagree in principle with Dr. Roberts comments here regarding the fact word retrieval is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline or any deficit to cognition.
I also agree that misspeaking, such as confusing two countries or peoples names, is not necessarily indicative of cognitive decline. This happens all the time for people, including those in their prime. The stress/anxiety/preoccupation of public speaking makes this all the more likely. And when you’re a world leader, there’s so many names of people it’s understandable names may get mixed up.
So you are qualified somehow? Do tell.
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I couldn’t tell you, but whatever it was, it required several more IQ points and brain cells than the decision run Trump.
My low-IQ mind is probably assuming “because he beat Trump before and has done a good job”.
Herdfan
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But do you
He does.
And I would bet my house you remember what country they were in when they died.
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Look, we all have differing opinions on some of this. That is expected. But the one thing most of us have in common is that we are Americans (no offense to our foreign members) and as such it affects all of us.
I remember when Biden was elected on thing that was forefront was he was going to restore our image on a national stage. Now I generally don't care what the EU thinks about us. But I do care what our enemies do.
So how do you all think the world is looking at us right now? Our allies, but more importantly our enemies. Do you think all this reporting is being ignored? What does China, NK, Iraq etc think about this?
I bet they are laughing their asses off all the while knowing we have a weak and hampered leader.
He sure restored us on the national stage.
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As much as I like Biden, which is a LOT... from the Hur report Biden is alleged to have committed a crime. Something I don't take lightly, considering he's the President of the United States.
Hur's assessment of his memory and age, whether proper or improper (I'm not a doctor trained in identifying such issues), saved him from being indicted and prosecuted. In the end, that's a good thing, considering the alternative.
Hur's assessment of his memory and age, whether proper or improper (I'm not a doctor trained in identifying such issues), saved him from being indicted and prosecuted. In the end, that's a good thing, considering the alternative.
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Wow man, you’re seething over this stuff. Lack of any sort of compassion is the MAGA way, you’ve outdone yourself here.But do youtalklie about your parent's deaths on a regular basis? Probably not. I know I don't.
He does.
And I would bet my house you remember what country they were in when they died.
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Look, we all have differing opinions on some of this. That is expected. But the one thing most of us have in common is that we are Americans (no offense to our foreign members) and as such it affects all of us.
I remember when Biden was elected on thing that was forefront was he was going to restore our image on a national stage. Now I generally don't care what the EU thinks about us. But I do care what our enemies do.
So how do you all think the world is looking at us right now? Our allies, but more importantly our enemies. Do you think all this reporting is being ignored? What does China, NK, Iraq etc think about this?
I bet they are laughing their asses off all the while knowing we have a weak and hampered leader.
He sure restored us on the national stage.
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The decision to not prosecute wasn’t solely because of Biden’s age or memory.
The report also mentioned precedent of other presidents doing similar things (crimes) and not being charged. So yes, the crime was alleged to have been committed, but the reason not to charge was not based solely on his age and memory or a jury perception. In fact, just from reading the first few pages of the report, the age/memory thing seemed the least important. They also emphasized someone who works with and around classified documents a lot would have more reason to be forgetful of them.
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This is pure speculation on my part. Hur doesn't strike me as a stupid person who makes casual decisions lightly or carelessly. He's a graduate of both Harvard (magna cum laude), Cambridge, and Stanford Law School.
*Assuming* a clinical evaluation of Biden was in order (I'd like an experienced MD who practices in that field to weigh in on that), perhaps he considered (rightly or wrongly) asking a sitting (rather than a past) President to submit to such an evaluation being over the top.
In any event, Biden will not be prosecuted. I'm OK with that.
*Assuming* a clinical evaluation of Biden was in order (I'd like an experienced MD who practices in that field to weigh in on that), perhaps he considered (rightly or wrongly) asking a sitting (rather than a past) President to submit to such an evaluation being over the top.
In any event, Biden will not be prosecuted. I'm OK with that.
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Forgetful that the information he passed to his ghostwriter was highly classified, with his ghostwriter not being cleared to receive or publish such information? That's pretty egregious, as well as dangerous.
Again, I'm still happy with the outcome.
Herdfan
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You can have you opinion.
But the fact is there is a post on here almost daily about Trump lying about this or that.
But Biden lies about the nature of Beau's death and nothing. You call me out all the time on not being willing to discuss Trump's lies or other misdeeds.
Why will you not call out Biden's lies?
He lied 3 times in his PC per CNN:
The one that baffles me is where he claimed that all the classified docs were in sealed locked cabinets. Really? We saw pics of the boxes of classified stuff in his garage way back when the story broke.
This is a flat out lie.
I will now ask you a question you frequently ask me: Will you call him out on these lies?
I will predict the charges against Trump for the same thing will ultimately be dropped. While I do understand what you are saying about the drone pilot and know that this is how things work, they don't necessarily work that way when the public is watching. The average voter isn't going to differentiate the nuances between them.
I also predict Biden will NOT be the D's nominee. Time will tell on both.
And what is going on over at CNN? They have been as brutal as any conservative leaning outlet on this story.
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Who do you think it could be?
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Even if that were the case I don't see how he can do it gracefully. He either endorses Kamala or just walks away saying nothing and letting the chips fall where they may, I would opt for the latter and let the Dems quickly get Newsom on the ballot.