Classified documents found in former Biden office

Citysnaps said:
Who do you think it could be?
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That is a tough call. Newsom is probably the frontrunner, but I also think it will depend on when and where it happens.

It would be a horrible look to just dump Kamala, so I don't think the DNC can do that if they are ones making the decision. So if something happens post-convention, then Kamala will be the nominee.

But if it is an open convention where the electors from each state make call, then Newsom with Whittmer a semi-distance second.

Eric said:
Even if that were the case I don't see how he can do it gracefully. He either endorses Kamala or just walks away saying nothing and letting the chips fall where they may, I would opt for the latter and let the Dems quickly get Newsom on the ballot.
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The biggest problem is that most of the states have already closed primary ballots. So as long as Biden keeps racking up delegates, he is the one who decides where they go. He would have to drop out and release his delegates to make their own choice. Which creates an issue for the DNC because they should endorse Kamala, but they also probably know Newsom is a better candidate.
 
Citysnaps said:
Forgetful that the information he passed to his ghostwriter was highly classified, with his ghostwriter not being cleared to receive or publish such information? That's pretty egregious, as well as dangerous.

Again, I'm still happy with the outcome.
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Not defending the actions, or even denying they are criminal (seems obvious it is). But other presidents have done illegal things with classified docs - intentionally or unintentionally, forgetful or not - and the precedent has been to not charge, and that is probably the biggest reason they didn’t charge, and the other examples (like Biden’s age, mental faculties or a jury perception) seem superfluous.

I do agree that these cases have shown a light on the handling of classified documents. It shows that many laws we have in place are not being followed. The Logan act - Trump’s stunt with having RNC events from the White House and Pompeo appearing for the event while overseas on official duty was a joke. Biden, Pence and Trump being able to take and keep classified docs, among probably many past presidents. Defying subpoenas, the Supreme Court code of ethics..

While we remain divided, little is being done to truly address these issues. Some work is being done by the Supreme Court (allegedly) and they’ve codified the VP duties to prevent another Mike Pence situation (if they follow their own rules, anyways, and I don’t trust they will). Still, these situations prove we have a long way to go.
 
Herdfan said:
That is a tough call. Newsom is probably the frontrunner, but I also think it will depend on when and where it happens.

It would be a horrible look to just dump Kamala, so I don't think the DNC can do that if they are ones making the decision. So if something happens post-convention, then Kamala will be the nominee.

But if it is an open convention where the electors from each state make call, then Newsom with Whittmer a semi-distance second.



The biggest problem is that most of the states have already closed primary ballots. So as long as Biden keeps racking up delegates, he is the one who decides where they go. He would have to drop out and release his delegates to make their own choice. Which creates an issue for the DNC because they should endorse Kamala, but they also probably know Newsom is a better candidate.
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Yep, that ship has sailed but that's my what if pick. This whole thing is definitely a gaffe but in the bigger scheme of things I don't think it'll make a big difference, we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Biden will be able to campaign this year, so we will see how he does. People bashed him for campaigning from his basement and mocking him for having small events, oblivious to the fact those of us who took COVID seriously saw that as a positive, not a negative.

But that’s done, and he can campaign normally. People will be able to see and hear both candidates and make their pick. I still assert that a lot of people with concerns about Biden don’t actually watch him (not necessarily here, but the general public). Perception is a reality and people will go to the polls regardless of their view or breadth of knowledge, but if nothing else, Biden will be forced to be on top of his game and judged accordingly.

I still am of the opinion that I don’t know how people could think Trump even in 2015 was anywhere close to being more rational, sane or sharp than Biden of today, but that’s what the voters will decide.

Which, every time I say that, am reminded of the question “then what?”, because it’s not like republicans are going to accept a Biden victory.
 
GermanSuplex said:
I still am of the opinion that I don’t know how people could think Trump even in 2015 was anywhere close to being more rational, sane or sharp than Biden of today, but that’s what the voters will decide.
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Sadly, I think a lot of voters will vote merely on optics in the general.

And that will be judged most noticeably in the first debate. With Biden walking slowly/cautiously from stage left, trump walking briskly/confidently (despite being overweight by 100 lbs) from stage right, with both meeting at center stage for the traditional handshake.

With respect to the meat of the debate, I don't know. A ton of shit will forcefully and confidently fly out of trump's mouth. With respect to Biden, I'm not sure. His cadence, whether good or bad, will be noticed and scrutinized.
 
Citysnaps said:
Sadly, I think a lot of voters will vote merely on optics in the general.

And that will be judged most noticeably in the first debate. With Biden walking slowly/cautiously from stage left, trump walking briskly/confidently (despite being overweight by 100 lbs) from stage right, with both meeting at center stage for the traditional handshake.

With respect to the meat of the debate, I don't know. A ton of shit will forcefully and confidently fly out of trump's mouth. With respect to Biden, I'm not sure. His cadence, whether good or bad, will be noticed and scrutinized.
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Agreed, and I believe when you put up "old man who forgets some stuff" against "man who is indicted on 91 felonies, was convicted of sexual assault and has several concurrent trials going on for everything from financial fraud to insighting an insurrection, who may actually be in prison during his first term" the American people won't have too hard of a time sussing out which is worse.
 
Citysnaps said:
And that will be judged most noticeably in the first debate. With Biden walking slowly/cautiously from stage left, trump walking briskly/confidently (despite being overweight by 100 lbs) from stage right, with both meeting at center stage for the traditional handshake.
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You’re right, perception is reality.

However, I doubt there will be a handshake. That should be the most noticeable thing, and only one person on stage will be the cause of that rancor. “Why don’t they shake hands anymore” should be what voters ask, and we all know why and who’s to blame.

I wouldn’t trust Trump even if he was willing to shake hands, he’d probably yank Biden off the stage purposefully just to “prove the guy couldn’t even take a strong handshake”.

It’s TDS until it happens, then we’re off to debating with people who think Trump yanking someone off a stage is ok.
 
Eric said:
Agreed, and I believe when you put up "old man who forgets some stuff" against "man who is indicted on 91 felonies, was convicted of sexual assault and has several concurrent trials going on for everything from financial fraud to insighting an insurrection, who may actually be in prison during his first term" the American people won't have too hard of a time sussing out which is worse.
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I sure hope so. Though for me, that's an unacceptable risk we're taking. Something that's *never* happened before.

GermanSuplex said:
However, I doubt there will be a handshake. That should be the most noticeable thing, and only one person on stage will be the cause of that rancor. “Why don’t they shake hands anymore” should be what voters ask, and we all know why and who’s to blame.
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That's been on my mind, wondering if Biden's handlers will be demanding the traditional opening brisk stage walk and handshake not occur. I hope the debate committee doesn't cave on that. That's a piece of information that shouldn't be hidden from voters. I guess the press hiding the fact that Roosevelt was paralyzed waist down and wheelchair-bound comes close in day to day activities.
 
Citysnaps said:
I sure hope so. Though for me, that's an unacceptable risk we're taking. Something that's *never* happened before.
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Fair enough and while most here are partisan Democrats, we also have some of the partisan Republicans and each side is slamming the other. However, in the end it will come down to independents, as it always does, and it's hard to imagine a folksy older man with memory problems would lose out to Trump when considering everything, at least to most sane people and they're going to be the ultimate deciding factor.
 
Herdfan said:
I will predict the charges against Trump for the same thing will ultimately be dropped. While I do understand what you are saying about the drone pilot and know that this is how things work, they don't necessarily work that way when the public is watching. The average voter isn't going to differentiate the nuances between them.

I also predict Biden will NOT be the D's nominee. Time will tell on both.
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Herdfan said:
And what is going on over at CNN? They have been as brutal as any conservative leaning outlet on this story.
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If you haven't already done so, I urge you to read Hur's report, at least the 14 page executive summary. Here's an excerpt:

With one exception, there is no record of the Department of Justice prosecuting a former president or vice president for mishandling classified documents from his own administration. The exception is former President Trump. It is not our role to assess the criminal charges pending against Mr. Trump, but several material distinctions between Mr. Trump's case and Mr. Biden's are clear. Unlike the evidence involving Mr. Biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment of Mr. Trump, if proven, would present serious aggravating facts.

So even Hur, who is being criticized as partisan, highlighted significant differences between the two cases that warrant the documents case against Trump continuing, regardless of what the public thinks. (Aileen Cannon will continue to do her best to make that difficult, but that's a different story.)

This is yet another example of attempts to claim the candidates aren't so different, regardless of overwhelming evidence that Trump presents a far greater danger than Biden, regardless of one's fiscal and other policy preferences. And, yeah, I agree with you about CNN and much of the other mainstream media. I think when it comes down to it, they care more about clicks and revenue than anything.
 
I've been thinking more about Biden's press conference after the Hur report was released.

When a reporter asked about his memory, Biden should have responded with a "Huh?" Followed a couple seconds later with a laugh.

The rest of the journalists in the room would have joined in with a good laugh, and Biden could then have pivoted the discussion in a different direction.
 
Citysnaps said:
I've been thinking more about Biden's press conference after the Hur report was released.

When a reporter asked about his memory, Biden should have responded with a "Huh?" Followed a couple seconds later with a laugh.

The rest of the journalists in the room would have joined in with a good laugh, and Biden could then have pivoted the discussion in a different direction.
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That might have helped a bit, though he did himself the most harm when he turned around to speak about Gaza. But Biden was clearly enraged about the comments in the report about his recollection of when his son Beau died. I imagine intense emotion could have affected Biden's response during his interview. Unfortunately, none of us will ever know the circumstances, including his frame of mind, so in the report it comes across as a clinical pronouncement that Biden couldn't remember the date of this life-changing event. I don't know about y'all, but sometimes forget even important facts in highly stressful situations.

This isn't to deny that Biden's cognitive ability is less than it once was, as one would expect for anyone who is 81-years-old. Whether it goes beyond age-related decline none of us can say for certain.

But what infuriates me is how the press has focused on this for days and mostly given a Trump a pass when he repeatedly spouts nonsense in public. And I'm not just referring to his confusing Haley with Pelosi -- much of it is even crazier.
 
First CNN and now the NYT. In a couple of recent editorials they basically question whether or not he is up to the task not only now, but in 5 years.

Did someone send out a memo that it was now OK to go after him?

I am joking there, but it almost does seem like once one door opened to bring it up, multiple doors opened to discuss it.
 
Roller said:
But Biden was clearly enraged about the comments in the report about his recollection of when his son Beau died. I imagine intense emotion could have affected Biden's response during his interview. Unfortunately, none of us will ever know the circumstances, including his frame of mind, so in the report it comes across as a clinical pronouncement that Biden couldn't remember the date of this life-changing event. I don't know about y'all, but sometimes forget even important facts in highly stressful situations.
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I understand him being outraged, but how many times has he publicly said Beau died in Iraq? I don't see much difference in not knowing how vs when.
 
Herdfan said:
First CNN and now the NYT. In a couple of recent editorials they basically question whether or not he is up to the task not only now, but in 5 years.
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That's on my mind as well. Even 1, 2, 3, 4 years from now.

What really angers me, is there was a solution. Bow out gracefully and endorse Newsom or any one of a half dozen excellent choices.

He would have been greatly admired by the public for his selfless act, being more concerned about the country than himself. Instead, he'll likely be remembered for his selfishness.
 
Herdfan said:
First CNN and now the NYT. In a couple of recent editorials they basically question whether or not he is up to the task not only now, but in 5 years.

Did someone send out a memo that it was now OK to go after him?

I am joking there, but it almost does seem like once one door opened to bring it up, multiple doors opened to discuss it.
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Biden’s age has been talked about constantly since he first announced he was running. How often have we discussed his age on here? When was this door not ever open? I’ve listened to countless hours of talking heads discussing his faculties on every news network.

When is the door to Trump’s mental health going to open up on right-wing media as much as Biden’s has been on mainstream media, long before this report came out?
 
From the NYT editorial:

However, there is no easy way for Biden to drop out of the race now because of "his own terrible vice-presidential choice" in Kamala Harris, he argued.

She is "even more likely" to lose to Donald Trump than Biden is, Douthat said. But if Biden didn't endorse Harris, it would only fuel more controversy and intra-party fighting.

"[H]e’d be opening himself to a narrative of identitarian betrayal — aging White president knifes first woman-of-color veep — and setting his party up for months of bloodletting and betrayal, a constant churn of personal and ideological drama," the Times columnist feared.

Actual quotes in italics.

But this is brutal. It really is.

But don't worry. Kamala came out and said she is ready to serve. I'm sure that calms everyone's anxiousness.
 
Would Al Gore have beaten Dole? Cheney beaten Kerry? Biden beat Romney? Pence beat Biden?

Who cares? I also doubt support wouldn’t materialize if it needed to. Harris is smart and competent, two things that definitely can’t be said of their GOP counterpart.
 
Herdfan said:
"[H]e’d be opening himself to a narrative of identitarian betrayal — aging White president knifes first woman-of-color veep — and setting his party up for months of bloodletting and betrayal, a constant churn of personal and ideological drama," the Times columnist feared.
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Identitarian. Nice... I learned a new word. :)

Every once in awhile leaders have to make really difficult decisions. That would be one of them for Biden. For sure there would be controversy. But I believe Newsom forcefully stepping forward (assuming he could at this point in time - very questionable) and taking charge as the Dem candidate who could easily beat trump, would tamp that down.
 
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