COVID Stupid

P_X said:



This absolutely belongs here. He as a paramedic is definitely accountable for spreading disinformation that literally infected his family. HCA mostly makes me sad, but this one made me angry.
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Unbelievable, you see this time and time again and I get the anger toward these people, at this point dying from it is nearly 100% avoidable. He said in one of the posts that he chose "life over fear" but if you simply get the vaccine you don't need to live in fear any more, remove the "choice" with common sense preventative measures. I don't wish this thing on anyone but will never understand their logic.
 
Eric said:
Unbelievable, you see this time and time again and I get the anger toward these people, at this point dying from it is nearly 100% avoidable. He said in one of the posts that he chose "life over fear" but if you simply get the vaccine you don't need to live in fear any more, remove the "choice" with common sense preventative measures. I don't wish this thing on anyone but will never understand their logic.
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Virtue signaling without the competence to meet basic professional standards met with a paradoxically inflated sense of competence. It usually takes an environment where none of your colleagues call you out for being an ass.

I've had a FB argument with a classmate from med school who pulled some antivaxx/mask BS last year. I asked him to provide supportive data to his claims so he very quickly descended into using ad hominems (which is sad because we used to be friends back in the days). Looked a few weeks ago...he deleted it all because it was embarrassing for him.
 

The Parable of the Drowning Man in the Age of COVID​

The joke goes something like this: A ferocious storm sweeps through a town, and in the aftermath, a man clambers onto his roof to escape the floodwaters. As he sits there, someone in a canoe comes by and offers to carry him to safety. “No, thanks,” the man replies. “God will save me.” The man paddles off, and the waters continue to rise. Shortly afterward, someone in a boat pulls up to offer help. “No, thank you,” the man says again. “God will deliver me.” The waters rise higher. Finally, a Coast Guard helicopter appears; someone with a megaphone offers to drop a ladder. “No, thank you,” the man says for a final time. “I prayed for God to save me.” The helicopter flies off, the waters engulf the roof, and the man drowns. When the man arrives in heaven, he asks in confusion, “What happened, God? Why didn’t you rescue me?” God replies, “I sent you a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?”


The joke goes something like this: A ferocious storm sweeps through a town, and in the aftermath, a man clambers onto his roof to escape the floodwaters. As he sits there, someone in a canoe comes by and offers to carry him to safety. “No, thanks,” the man replies. “God will save me.” The man paddles off, and the waters continue to rise. Shortly afterward, someone in a boat pulls up to offer help. “No, thank you,” the man says again. “God will deliver me.” The waters rise higher. Finally, a Coast Guard helicopter appears; someone with a megaphone offers to drop a ladder. “No, thank you,” the man says for a final time. “I prayed for God to save me.” The helicopter flies off, the waters engulf the roof, and the man drowns. When the man arrives in heaven, he asks in confusion, “What happened, God? Why didn’t you rescue me?” God replies, “I sent you a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?”


If you ever regularly attended a Christian church, you’ve probably heard a version of this story, sometimes called the “parable of the drowning man.” But in the last year, a new version has cropped up. In it, a man ignores advice to wear masks, avoid large gatherings, and get the COVID vaccine. When he dies after contracting the virus at a party, God tells the confused Christian that he gave public health officials the intelligence to develop the vaccine and to educate the public about social distancing, hand-washing, masks, and other measures. “I imparted wisdom to your leaders, who realized the dangers of COVID-19 and how humans could protect themselves,” this version of God says in a Florida newspaper column in July, in one of a number of similar editorials in local and regional newspapers. “Many of your leaders made sure they communicated to everyone. What more could I have done?”
 
Herdfan said:
No, it was developed for treating River Blindness in HUMANS.

www.webmd.com

Ivermectin Oral: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings & Dosing - WebMD

Find patient medical information for ivermectin oral on WebMD including its uses, side effects and safety, interactions, pictures, warnings and user ratings.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ivermectin, ‘Wonder drug’ from Japan: the human use perspective

Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So here you have a reputable news organization calling it horse dewormer. So what happens when a Dr. prescribes it for one of the conditions it is indicated for and the patient won't take it because CNN said it was for horses. 100% irresponsible reporting.

It is also used on horses. Ever hear of Ketamine? It is also used on both Humans and horses. There is a whole list of drugs that can and are used on humans, horse and other animals.
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Your own link says that Ivermectin was "originally introduced as a veterinary drug," as it "kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals.

...It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a 'wonder' drug.
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Now, to go further, while there's no evidence that the anti-parasitic is effective against COVID-19, people on the right-wing have been pushing the drug, and unfortunately, because of this, people have been taking the version meant for horses and livestock.

Now, CNN's Don Lemmon should not have made the crack that Rogan was taking "horse dewormer."

And, CNN's reporting should always be devoted to clarity on the subject: Rogan's promoting a drug as a cure-all when there's no evidence it helps, and probably pushing people away from the vaccines, which will risk lives.

Rogan's a crackpot, who has been given into snake-oil nonsense on a dozen other subjects, and has no education, training or clarity on any of these subjects.

As CNN put it to the Washington Post:

....The heart of this debate has been purposely confused and ultimately lost. It’s never been about livestock versus human dosage of Ivermectin. The issue is that a powerful voice in the media, who by example and through his platform, sowed doubt in the proven and approved science of vaccines while promoting the use of an unproven treatment for COVID-19—a drug developed to ward off parasites in farm animals.
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Meanwhile, Fox News continues to espouse deranged nonsense on vaccines and masks, despite their own corporate mandates for both.

CNN keeps following Fox News' complete lack of standards and accountability. And, Rogan's has no credibility on any of this, either.
 
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hulugu said:
And, CNN's reporting should always be devoted to clarity on the subject: Rogan's promoting a drug as a cure-all when there's no evidence it helps, and probably pushing people away from the vaccines, which will risk lives.
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And this exactly is the issue. My interest is how to use biomarkers to design clinical trials that are much more likely to succeed (or if they fail we understand exactly why), and there isn't really a quicker avenue than drug repurposing for turning hypotheses into clinical evidence. But now if I wanna run a trial with another dewormer (which I was considering before this ivermectin craze), it will come with a lot of totally unnecessary connotations and potential sources of bias I wasn't trained to deal with. All thanks to schmucks like Rogan, or Musk.
 
P_X said:
And this exactly is the issue. My interest is how to use biomarkers to design clinical trials that are much more likely to succeed (or if they fail we understand exactly why), and there isn't really a quicker avenue than drug repurposing for turning hypotheses into clinical evidence. But now if I wanna run a trial with another dewormer (which I was considering before this ivermectin craze), it will come with a lot of totally unnecessary connotations and potential sources of bias I wasn't trained to deal with. All thanks to schmucks like Rogan, or Musk.
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I hadn't thought of that, but that makes some unfortunate sense. Anyone wanting to run a study on Ivermectin has to manage all these outside biases, even just to see if the drug works.

And, this gets compounded too because most people aren't just taking Ivermectin, but a constellation of other compounds at the same time
 
hulugu said:
I hadn't thought of that, but that makes some unfortunate sense. Anyone wanting to run a study on Ivermectin has to manage all these outside biases, even just to see if the drug works.

And, this gets compounded too because most people aren't just taking Ivermectin, but a constellation of other compounds at the same time
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Let's say I sketch up a trial concept and apply for NIH funding. Even though there's at least 5 years worth of bench and 3 years of clinical data generated in my institution [i.e., the basic science and clinical feasibility are both there], I suspect it would impact the score my grant would get.
 

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