Electric Vehicles: General topics

[quagmire]

Wow, a long time member posted a bunch of crazy political nonsense, got called out, and they actually cancelled their account.

Looks like there's a queue of anti-EV goons though, the new one (only a member for a few months) looks like fun

Guess I should take the blame for cancelling her..... I reported her posts for going political.

Sorry everyone!

Seriously speaking...... Some people really can't help but bring in politics into non-political threads or when the forum has no politics rules then bitch they are getting censored when said rules are enforced. I reported the posts due to breaking the rules than disagreeing with her political posts. Bet she doesn't see it that way.

Same crap happened when I was a mod at a GM message board. Deleted political posts that had no bearing to the industry, members claiming censorship.

 

[fischersd]

Looks like there's a queue of anti-EV goons though, the new one (only a member for a few months) looks like fun

All the rednecks with their pickup trucks. How will they feel manly if they're not spewing diesel fumes everywhere???

 

[DT]

Speaking of "MUH TRUCK", I saw my first Rivian out in the wild last week, it really has quite a presence, it's unique and stylized while having a very traditional truck design, really nice lines, muscular fenders, definitely quick, driver stepped on it a bit coming out of this slow area and it shot forward in a sort of physics defying way

 

[Nycturne]

Yeah, I saw my first Rivian when I was driving to work in the rented Ioniq 5. Also saw my second Ioniq 5 on the road (the rented one being the first) during that commute. It seems like I’ve been seeing more non-Tesla BEVs lately. Mach Es, a couple ID.4s, etc. Maybe I just know what to look for after scoping out the field.

It’s not bad looking, I am just not a truck person so don’t have much of an educated opinion on them other than I am not a fan of the headlights. I probably would have gone with circular headlights myself.

 

[rdrr]

Speaking of "MUH TRUCK", I saw my first Rivian out in the wild last week, it really has quite a presence, it's unique and stylized while having a very traditional truck design, really nice lines, muscular fenders, definitely quick, driver stepped on it a bit coming out of this slow area and it shot forward in a sort of physics defying way

I have seen two Rivian in the wild in the metro Boston area. I like the looks and wondered how they handle.

 

[Yoused]

Rivians have that weird bootleg mode, where you can make the motors on side reverse relative to the other.

 

[Hrafn]

Holy heck, hahaha, the MR EV thread ...

*FRESH DUMB HAS ENTERED THE CHAT*

Holy crap! And now she's cancelled? Something went down I missed.

 

[Herdfan]

All the rednecks with their pickup trucks. How will they feel manly if they're not spewing diesel fumes everywhere???

Sad.

Actually my SCR truck spews very little fumes. It can be hard to tell it is a diesel standing next to it. Well by smell, the tapping of the rockers is a dead give away.

But after pulling 10K# of large enclosed trailer through the mountains this past weekend and still averaged close to 14 MPG, I was glad to have it over a gasser.

 

[DT]

Holy crap! And now she's cancelled? Something went down I missed.

Without taking this thread too far off topic, she jumped into the EV thread, made a few technically inaccurate posts (you could tell their was an underlying anti-EV sentiment ...) and was corrected, but then made a few posts about drump, something about the current admin disparaging her Hispanic heritage[?], just inappropriate and way off topic - but I looked at a few other recent posts and they were all the same sort of rantings/ramblings, I think she was really on the edge before that thread. For the record, that status is self-imposed, it's a request by the user to terminate their account.

 

[Hrafn]

Without taking this thread too far off topic, she jumped into the EV thread, made a few technically inaccurate posts (you could tell their was an underlying anti-EV sentiment ...) and was corrected, but then made a few posts about drump, something about the current admin disparaging her Hispanic heritage[?], just inappropriate and way off topic - but I looked at a few other recent posts and they were all the same sort of rantings/ramblings, I think she was really on the edge before that thread. For the record, that status is self-imposed, it's a request by the user to terminate their account.

I've been looking at EVs, and with the price of modestly used ICE, it's hard to tell what makes sense now. For years I went with Click and Clack's suggestion to buy a junker and run it into the ground, but now that's not always easy to do.

Sucks that folks lie to push an ideology.

 

[DT]

Livestream for the Polestar 3 press event:

 

[Nycturne]

Polestar 3 looks interesting, but a bit out of my desired price range. The Honda Prologue doesn't look half bad though. Need more details.

ID.4 is still in the queue with an estimated delivery window of Dec-Feb. Earliest manufacturing can start is mid-Nov because of parts shortages for the 360 camera system and (for some reason) the power folding mirrors on the high end trim of the 2023. Fun.

 

[DT]

Which model/variant did you reserve?

 

[Yoused]

It may be time for an elecrtic beetle. I, personally, would enjoy having a BEV that lacks all of the computerized bullshit (and is practical to repair), and I suspect that I may not be the only luddite around.

 

[Nycturne]

It may be time for an elecrtic beetle. I, personally, would enjoy having a BEV that lacks all of the computerized bullshit (and is practical to repair), and I suspect that I may not be the only luddite around.

The irony is that EVs bring the computerization even deeper into the drivetrain. Battery controllers for charging and heat management. Cooling/heating loops to manage battery temperature for better range and faster charging in more weather conditions meaning the battery controllers need to talk to the controllers for the HVAC system. Regen means more drive-by-wire systems, either via one-pedal driving modes, or blended braking. That horse is unfortunately truly dead, I think.

Repairability though should still be a priority, I agree. The MEB platform VW uses at least has some ability to pull apart the battery pack and replace individual modules or the battery controller which helps a bit when it comes to repair costs, and may or may not help with replacement costs down the road. VW seems keen on repurposing old MEB batteries into energy storage projects and the like down the road.

Which model/variant did you reserve?

It was a 2022 AWD Pro S that got converted to a 2022 AWD Pro S, and when I was asked to lock, I decided to splurge on the AWD Pro S Plus instead.

Kinda kicking myself because those that locked on the same day as I did but kept the AWD Pro S trim have their vehicles on trains. Getting a 2023 ID.4 before Dec 31st is going to be the only way to get it with the tax credit, and unless production starts on mine in Nov, it‘s definitely not happening.

 

[DT]

Putting this here as it really applies to all EVs, especially when you mostly charge from home

 

[Nycturne]

Yeah, I was doing the math a while back comparing the cost per mile in fuel. It was eye-opening, to be honest.

My Outback was 20.9c a mile for fuel at the last fill up (5.30$/gal). A conservative estimate is that I should be able to get about 3mi/kWh, at 10.47c/kWh, or about 3.49c/mi. Savings per year would be very similar to your numbers.

Since the Ioniq 5 I rented was able to do a bit better than 3.2mi/kWh during my commute, this seems like a reasonable estimate.

 

[Apple fanboy]

As I charge about 98% for free at work it’s fine. But the electric price hike here in the UK isn’t helping the shift. Especially when you factor in the car cost as well.

 

[DT]

Yeah, I was doing the math a while back comparing the cost per mile in fuel. It was eye-opening, to be honest.

My Outback was 20.9c a mile for fuel at the last fill up (5.30$/gal). A conservative estimate is that I should be able to get about 3mi/kWh, at 10.47c/kWh, or about 3.49c/mi. Savings per year would be very similar to your numbers.

Since the Ioniq 5 I rented was able to do a bit better than 3.2mi/kWh during my commute, this seems like a reasonable estimate.

I should probably qualify my stats a bit:

We do a trip several times a year down to Orlando, where the destination has free charging.

Also, that was at some peak gas costs, so compared to what I'm seeing at gas prices right now, instead of 4.4x more gas cost, at the moment it's probably more like 3.8-ish (and obviously dependent on the MPG of the ICE vehicle being compared).

I also like using the $ per mile like you referenced, it's an easy comparison, I'm at about $0.035, so I guess $0.04 round up, that's with me pulling about 305-310 Wh/mile average (i.e., being a little heavy footed around town, and getting out of the MPH sweet spot on the highway, like 77-78), and going back to our previous cars, they'd be over $0.12, so a good 4:1 cost difference (though those weren't super efficient ICE vehicles).

Bottom line is unless gas get under $2/g and/or you're driving an ICE vehicle with exceptional efficiency (50MPG+), I don't see the BEV losing it's consumables cost advantage any time soon (and that doesn't even factor in other ICE consumables like oil).

 

[DT]

Kia and Hyundai seemed to be providing a more "entry level" EV, but for '23 Kia has dropped their base model EV6, so now the starting price is ~$50K

2023 Kia EV6 Base Trim Dropped, Starting Price Jumps To $50,000

This situation is becoming all too common among new electric cars and SUVs. Cheaper trims are going away and prices are climbing. Hopefully, it will stabilize.

insideevs.com

And I guess they're losing the $7500 tax credit in the short term, to be replaced by the IRA, but I'm reading there's some kind of rule that means the EV6 isn't applicable (under the new plan, something about sourcing rules).

Holy smokes, that model when factoring in the previous tax credit may have gone up as much as $15,000