Electric Vehicles: General topics

[Nycturne]

In any event, Rivian, Lucid, polestar, etc. are not something I would consider simply because there are two possibilities: the company goes out of business, in which case good luck with service. Or the company gets successful, in which case good luck with service. For my next car I definitely want to stick with a company that has a real service network, where you can talk to human beings and don’t have to do everything through the app, where they have a clear loaners policy that doesn’t change every year, etc.

Polestar is owned by Volvo at this point, isn’t it? I’m a bit surprised that isn’t being leveraged to quickly expand the service network.

But in general I think Tesla’s strongest point right now is that they have really good range for a variety of reasons, paired with an in-house charging network in North America that is fast, and isn’t EA. Some of those other manufacturers can/will catch up on (drag coefficients, preconditioning, hopefully the charging network because of NEVI), and some they may choose not to follow on (modular battery packs vs structural battery packs, other weight-saving measures). And with other manufacturers starting to ramp up their EV lineups, options are still pretty limited, to be honest.

I mean, there’s only been a couple EVs that even meet my requirements, and they’re all compromises from the ICE I’ve driven. And they also happen to be rare as hen’s teeth for the most part.

 

[Eric]

In typical Tesla fashion, my tesla app just gave me a notification of progress on my car’s repairs - the first since it was towed in last monday. They want $1700 for the brake. Looks like they will replace both caliper assemblies. (I found that out by clicking on text that turned out to be a link, even though it does not differ in appearance from other text. Otherwise all I would know is “if you want it fixed give us $1700.”)

It's as intuitive as their inferior replacement for CarPlay.

There was also an indication that they could not reproduce a problem with my passenger-side rear window switch, which is silly, because it happens literally every time I try it. (it either works just enough to lower the window a couple inches and then stops, or it won’t work at all). I figure if they tried it once a day for the week they’ve had the car, they’d have seen the behavior by now.

Whatever. No communication as to when the car will be done, nothing from any human being at all. Just an automated “approve this estimate” message.

This happened to me when I reported the squeaky brakes issue, they "could not reproduce" even though when I'm driving through the streets it's loud enough to wake the dead. I finally just took video of it but don't have the patience to wait for their extremely long wait times in the shop.

We now know why their service centers are overloaded and defensive, their CEO has obviously thrown any and all real QA out the window and these things roll off the assembly line in bad shape much of the time.

 

[Cmaier]

It's as intuitive as their inferior replacement for CarPlay.


This happened to me when I reported the squeaky brakes issue, they "could not reproduce" even though when I'm driving through the streets it's loud enough to wake the dead. I finally just took video of it but don't have the patience to wait for their extremely long wait times in the shop.

We now know why their service centers are overloaded and defensive, their CEO has obviously thrown any and all real QA out the window and these things roll off the assembly line in bad shape much of the time.

Yep. It’s a real disappointment. They used to have great service. As another example of today’s Tesla, for giggles I clicked on their website to get a trade-in estimate for my current tesla. In the past they’d send me a quote within a day or two (it’s never been very good - always about half bluebook trade-in value). Anyway, this time I get a phone call from some sales lady asking a bunch of jibberish questions. “Do you want to use your trade in as down payment?” After I explained to her that the way it works is that the trade in comes off the purchase price and it shouldn’t matter whether it is ”down payment” she finally told me that someone completely different would send a “low high trade-in estimate” (whatever that means.). She was only in charge of trying to up-sell me into a model X. Anyway, i was only interested in the trade-in value as a comparison point against other means of disposing of the car if i end up getting a new car this year, so whatever.

I also wonder why they think I’d be impressed enough with their service to actually buy a new tesla at this point.

It does look like it’s not a good time to replace the car, though. There are some alternatives in the ballpark, but they all have compromises or supply-chain issues. It looks like by the end of 2023 there might be more alternatives.

 

[Cmaier]

Polestar is owned by Volvo at this point, isn’t it? I’m a bit surprised that isn’t being leveraged to quickly expand the service network.

Are they? I really know very little about them. They have a store in the mall over here. Nobody ever in it - reminds me of the old Microsoft Store.

You see a lot of niche cars on the road in Silicon Valley, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen a polestar. Lots of rivians, though.

 

[Eric]

Yep. It’s a real disappointment. They used to have great service. As another example of today’s Tesla, for giggles I clicked on their website to get a trade-in estimate for my current tesla. In the past they’d send me a quote within a day or two (it’s never been very good - always about half bluebook trade-in value). Anyway, this time I get a phone call from some sales lady asking a bunch of jibberish questions. “Do you want to use your trade in as down payment?” After I explained to her that the way it works is that the trade in comes off the purchase price and it shouldn’t matter whether it is ”down payment” she finally told me that someone completely different would send a “low high trade-in estimate” (whatever that means.). She was only in charge of trying to up-sell me into a model X. Anyway, i was only interested in the trade-in value as a comparison point against other means of disposing of the car if i end up getting a new car this year, so whatever.

I also wonder why they think I’d be impressed enough with their service to actually buy a new tesla at this point.

It does look like it’s not a good time to replace the car, though. There are some alternatives in the ballpark, but they all have compromises or supply-chain issues. It looks like by the end of 2023 there might be more alternatives.

Right, the way I see it is that Elon already has my money so cutting out early and paying for it is just more egg on my face. I'm holding out for now, been looking at Ford as well, next time I want to go with an actual car manufacturer that's been tried and true and not part of some company's beta plan with shitty quality control.

 

[Nycturne]

It does look like it’s not a good time to replace the car, though. There are some alternatives in the ballpark, but they all have compromises or supply-chain issues. It looks like by the end of 2023 there might be more alternatives.

Agreed. I'd just say that if you are looking to jump on a new model, expect early supply constraints, no matter the brand. I don't see that changing in in the next 12-18 months.

Are they? I really know very little about them. They have a store in the mall over here. Nobody ever in it - reminds me of the old Microsoft Store.

You see a lot of niche cars on the road in Silicon Valley, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen a polestar. Lots of rivians, though.

Wikipedia says Volvo bought them back in 2015, and they've been working with Volvo on production hybrids for longer than that.

 

[Citysnaps]

Mid last year Honda announced they're working on 30 electric vehicles - an astonishing number. Presumably some of those are hybrids.

There's also a rumor floating around Honda will be announcing a full-electric Ridgeline. That's what I'm waining for. Right now I have a Toyota Highlander and a Ford F-150 truck. The Ridgeline would replace both for my needs going forward.

Just hope it has a real spare tire (even a limited use one) instead of an air-compressor and bottle of goop sealant. My wife was looking to purchase a CR-V hybrid this year until we discovered the spare tire was replaced with the compressor and sealant.

 

[Cmaier]

So I’m at Tesla in Santa Clara to pick up my car. They bring it around. “Hey, did you know your driver side door handle doesn’t present?”

Me: “it did when I brought it in here a week ago!”

So I’ll be sitting here for the next couple of hours while they fix it (I hope)

 

[Eric]

So I’m at Tesla in Santa Clara to pick up my car. They bring it around. “Hey, did you know your driver side door handle doesn’t present?”

Me: “it did when I brought it in here a week ago!”

So I’ll be sitting here for the next couple of hours while they fix it (I hope)

JFC man I would've lost it on them.

 

[Cmaier]

So I’m at Tesla in Santa Clara to pick up my car. They bring it around. “Hey, did you know your driver side door handle doesn’t present?”

Me: “it did when I brought it in here a week ago!”

So I’ll be sitting here for the next couple of hours while they fix it (I hope)

Still negotiating on who PAYS for that, by the way.

 

[Cmaier]

JFC man I would've lost it on them.

I kind of did. I restrained myself a bit. Took it to maybe 60%.

I mean they told me at 1pm the car was done and that it just needed to go through “quality inspection.” That took 4 hours.

That must be some quality inspection.

 

[Eric]

I kind of did. I restrained myself a bit. Took it to maybe 60%.

I mean they told me at 1pm the car was done and that it just needed to go through “quality inspection.” That took 4 hours.

That must be some quality inspection.

I almost feel bad for them because you know they're probably driven beyond their ability to keep up by someone like Musk. Quality of service and QA off the line are their last priorities.

 

[Cmaier]

I almost feel bad for them because you know they're probably driven beyond their ability to keep up by someone like Musk. Quality of service and QA off the line are their last priorities.

Yep. When he said it will take a couple of hours I pointed out that’s past closing time. Response: “we’ll be here.” He clearly wasn’t happy about it.

 

[diamond.g]

I almost feel bad for them because you know they're probably driven beyond their ability to keep up by someone like Musk. Quality of service and QA off the line are their last priorities.

I wonder if Tesla would have been better off with franchise dealerships.

 

[Eric]

I wonder if Tesla would have been better off with franchise dealerships.

One thing I can say about them is the buying experience was next level awesome for me, took all of a half hour on my iPhone and I was ready to pick it up off the lot. However, that's where it ends, dealing with their servicing is bad enough that I'm just living with the issues I have.

I personally think there's something to be said for known car manufacturers who have been around for decades dealing with the car industry, servicing, etc. Tesla is by far the worst I've ever experienced.

 

[Cmaier]

I wonder if Tesla would have been better off with franchise dealerships.

Hard to say. I found Tesla’s front end purchasing experience to be a big plus. (But, then, I was once physically prevented from walking out of a Mitsubishi dealership, so…)

 

[diamond.g]

Seems like a bad buying experience is okay if the servicing experience is good.

 

[Cmaier]

Well i just got home. They agreed to pay for the door handle, and while they swear it will be done tonight, they still need another hour or so, so tthey gave me a loaner model s.

It drives itself. I turned that on. I still find it terrifying and it really doesn’t drive itself. (This one can steer and follow nav - though you have to acknowledge turns - but it doesn’t know about stop signs and traffic lights, and it frequently got confused and told me that auto steer was temporarily unavailable).

anyway….

 

[Cmaier]

Just drove back to get my “completed” car.


Fuckers didn’t even put the dash back together.

Lost all my profile info.

Sirius radio doesn’t work.

It’s 9:30 and I’m dealing with this bullshit.

 

[Cmaier]

LOL. They tell me the sirius thing is because they wiped my profile when they put in the new non-volatile memory (their fix for the “flash ram gets written to too much and dies” bug). They didn’t back up my profile.

So they have to wait for the “profile guy” to come in, tomorrow. But somehow the “master technician” (who was working at 10pm) told me it could take up to a week.

I told them to keep the car until everything that worked when I brought it in works again.

Now I have to figure out how to reprogram my homelink - my garage opener is so old it has no homelink support, so i added on a homelink receiver. But my wife lost the remote for it. I thought I had another, but when i tried to use it to program the loaner I got nowhere. May be time to get a new garage door opener too now.