Electric Vehicles: Tesla specific talk, current firmware, purchasing, modifications

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diamond.g said:
So if Trump kills NEVI funding, does that mean that auto makers will stop the switch to NACS and stick with CCS Type 1?
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I think it has no effect on the switch. The supercharger network is the most reliable (and likely to remain that way with NEVI suspended), and having one plug going forward is a benefit, not a drawback.

That said, if Tesla were to shred the contracts to give access in exchange for committing to the switch, who knows.
 
Nycturne said:
I think it has no effect on the switch. The supercharger network is the most reliable (and likely to remain that way with NEVI suspended), and having one plug going forward is a benefit, not a drawback.

That said, if Tesla were to shred the contracts to give access in exchange for committing to the switch, who knows.
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could be musk’s plan. Lure everyone over, and now that it’s too late in the design cycle to switch back, fuck over his competitors. Since he’s President, and all.
 
Cmaier said:
could be musk’s plan. Lure everyone over, and now that it’s too late in the design cycle to switch back, fuck over his competitors. Since he’s President, and all.
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I guess my question is, at this point, would it even change the calculus? SAE J3400 is open, only requires a passive adapter for CCS1, and SAE is trying to finalize universal plug and charge in terms of what needs to happen for practical implementation in commerce.

I’m not sure Musk has the attention span to pull off something this complicated when he’s juggling so much at this point. It may just be killing NEVI is a simple "don’t put a thumb on the scale" libertarian move, which he benefits from by keeping Superchargers at the top of the heap, and further entrenching that position. But it is also clear he does stuff just based on vibes.

I’ve said before that the network could be a profit center for Tesla if they want it to be. And getting these deals makes that more feasible than ever.
 
Nycturne said:
I guess my question is, at this point, would it even change the calculus? SAE J3400 is open, only requires a passive adapter for CCS1, and SAE is trying to finalize universal plug and charge in terms of what needs to happen for practical implementation in commerce.

I’m not sure Musk has the attention span to pull off something this complicated when he’s juggling so much at this point. It may just be killing NEVI is a simple "don’t put a thumb on the scale" libertarian move, which he benefits from by keeping Superchargers at the top of the heap, and further entrenching that position. But it is also clear he does stuff just based on vibes.

I’ve said before that the network could be a profit center for Tesla if they want it to be. And getting these deals makes that more feasible than ever.
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IIRC Plug and Change already has a standard (ISO 15118). I'm not sure why SAE is trying to come up with something different.

Really NACS is only useful for using the supercharger network. I don't think anyone really cares what plug their vehicles use otherwise.
 
So glad I didn’t go for the model S lie so long ago. When Musk “announced” he was a conservative I already was on the fence with him. Then the whole twitter fiasco made me stop looking at a Tesla powerbank. Now that I am in the EV world, i am holding off (just barely on the Tesla Supercharger network. They seem to be more plentiful and not broken for months. I am worried though if I do sign up he’ll pull the football a-la Lucy Van Pelt.
 
diamond.g said:
IIRC Plug and Change already has a standard (ISO 15118). I'm not sure why SAE is trying to come up with something different.
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It’s not, but 15118 doesn’t fully address the whole "how do you deploy back end infrastructure so that charging network A is trusted by car brand B, and optionally payment processor C."

As a similar example, TLS as a spec is great, but it doesn’t handle all the bits of "how do you actually issue trusted certificates" part which is what makes it feasible for commerce. It’s basically the same problem here, where the public-key infrastructure component of 15118 has glaring holes that need to be addressed to avoid the issue of every car OEM making deals with every charging network and issuing OTA updates to support them.

diamond.g said:
Really NACS is only useful for using the supercharger network. I don't think anyone really cares what plug their vehicles use otherwise.
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Only to the extent of ergonomics. CCS as implemented by most networks in the US is not great ergonomically, so there are folks who say NACS is better there. There a more ergonomic CCS plugs, but many are still a bit wonky to use one-handed.

The real win IMO with picking *something* is to get to the point where fueling EVs are as simple as fueling ICE. And having overlapping charging network coverage so that range anxiety during longer trips isn’t a thing. Having incompatible networks is a hinderance to this particularly.
 
Nycturne said:
Only to the extent of ergonomics. CCS as implemented by most networks in the US is not great ergonomically, so there are folks who say NACS is better there. There a more ergonomic CCS plugs, but many are still a bit wonky to use one-handed.
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There is definitely something to be said about the user experience with NACS vs. CCS, re: the ergonomics.

With NACS, it's like you're connecting some lightweight vacuum cleaner attachment - with CCS, it's like you're wrestling a 30 foot anaconda (and losing ...)
 
DT said:
There is definitely something to be said about the user experience with NACS vs. CCS, re: the ergonomics.

With NACS, it's like you're connecting some lightweight vacuum cleaner attachment - with CCS, it's like you're wrestling a 30 foot anaconda (and losing ...)
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A lot of the bolded bit is the cable build differences, and NACS alone doesn't necessarily solve that. If you build your cables to run at 500A all-day-every-day, they will be quite a bit thicker and heavier than a cable that is built to be pushed hard early on and then derate like Tesla does.

The problem is the plug-end that EA uses are basically the worst CCS plug available. There are some gun type CCS1 plugs available, but nobody uses them, despite them being easier to handle, especially one-handed.

DC-Charger-Chademo.jpg.jpg
 
Nycturne said:
A lot of the bolded bit is the cable build differences, and NACS alone doesn't necessarily solve that. If you build your cables to run at 500A all-day-every-day, they will be quite a bit thicker and heavier than a cable that is built to be pushed hard early on and then derate like Tesla does.
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Basing this on owning a Tesla for 3 years where the cable handling was significantly easier (at a SuC) vs. the EA cabling handling (with our iX) for the times we've DCFC'ed and it was a chore, handle design didn't really impact things very much.

I'm not a small, physically limited person, I can't image the EA CCS experience for some people. I've never used another CCS option - yet - so no idea about other implementations.

Anyway, regardless of the reason, it's what I experienced first hand (at least Tesla SuC vs. EA CCS), i.e., the cable, cable-management (the overhead wire assist), was craptacular, SuCs are just about as lightweight as our home L2. The end result is jthe SuCs were better, again, in my experience. If we do this Atlanta trip we're thinking about, we'll almost for sure will use the Buc-ees CCS about midway, these are the co-branded Mercedes stations which are supposed to be outstanding, so at the very least I'll get to try another CCS option (maybe some are better, might also use the FPL stations on the way down to the Keys in a few months).

And to be honest, I'd rather avoid giving Tesla another buck, even if a CCS station is a little worse experience.
 
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DT said:
Basing this on owning a Tesla for 3 years where the cable handling was significantly easier (at a SuC) vs. the EA cabling handling (with our iX) for the times we've DCFC'ed and it was a chore, handle design didn't really impact things very much.

I'm not a small, physically limited person, I can't image the EA CCS experience for some people. I've never used another CCS option - yet - so no idea about other implementations.
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Here's the thing though, if this is the case, it really is just proving my original point: that some people saying NACS is more ergonomic are conflating cable and plug ergonomics. Switching to NACS doesn't solve the cable ergonomics problem, and the plug ergonomics of CCS doesn't have to be as weird as it is.
 
Cmaier said:
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It's Official: the Cybertruck is More Explosive than the Ford Pinto - FuelArc News

We now have a full year of data for the Cybertruck, and a strange preponderance of headlines about Cybertrucks exploding into flames, including several fatalities. That’s more than enough data to compare to the Ford Pinto, a car so notoriously combustible that it has become a watchword for...
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LOL
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It continues to be such a shit show of engineering ...



Other Teslas like the Y have splined half shafts, but the, umm, ultra-masculine, super-bro-beef-mobile has this mind boggling, shitty implementation, because, as far as most of us can determine, it might save a few minutes on the line??

FUCKING CLOWNS. :D

Edited to add: there's been 3 cases of CTs stripping their half-shafts, at least publicly known, this is sort of a waiting-to-fail sort of design, maybe lightly driven to Starbuck CTs might make it a few years :ROFLMAO:
 
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DT said:
It continues to be such a shit show of engineering ...



Other Teslas like the Y have splined half shafts, but the, umm, ultra-masculine, super-bro-beef-mobile has this mind boggling, shitty implementation, because, as far as most of us can determine, it might save a few minutes on the line??

FUCKING CLOWNS. :D
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wait - that little bolt is all that they use to hold those little teeth down? That’s hilarious.
 
My charge port has two interior covers. I pop the upper one open to do J1772 Level 2 charging, or both of them to fit a CCS Level 3 plug. It is not a major issue, really, but NACS only has the one port for either, which is a simpler thing for me and only slighty more complicated for the internal charging system.
 
Nycturne said:
A lot of the bolded bit is the cable build differences, and NACS alone doesn't necessarily solve that. If you build your cables to run at 500A all-day-every-day, they will be quite a bit thicker and heavier than a cable that is built to be pushed hard early on and then derate like Tesla does.

The problem is the plug-end that EA uses are basically the worst CCS plug available. There are some gun type CCS1 plugs available, but nobody uses them, despite them being easier to handle, especially one-handed.

DC-Charger-Chademo.jpg.jpg
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I don't think the cables are derating for Tesla, I'm pretty sure it is the connector that ends up being the problem, it is why you can put a wet rag on it to get it to not derate (well until recently this worked).
 
Cmaier said:
wait - that little bolt is all that they use to hold those little teeth down? That’s hilarious.
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Yeah, and then even a tiny bit of play between the two geared surfaces will loosen that fastener and then just shred the half shafts.

And the fastener is exposed right through the open hub because, and I have to quote someone from that Reddit thread:

"... Tesla's inability to master wheel cover technology"

:ROFLMAO:
 
DT said:
Yeah, and then even a tiny bit of play between the two geared surfaces will loosen that fastener and then just shred the half shafts.

And the fastener is exposed right through the open hub because, and I have to quote someone from that Reddit thread:

"... Tesla's inability to master wheel cover technology"

:ROFLMAO:
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About 3 or 4 months after I took delivery of my model S, in 2013, I was driving down route 280 and I felt the car wobbling left and right. I had to constantly make adjustments to the steering wheel to keep the car moving straight. Turned out some axle bolt came loose. They’ve got some creative automotive engineers over there on deer creek road, i guess.
 
Cmaier said:
About 3 or 4 months after I took delivery of my model S, in 2013, I was driving down route 280 and I felt the car wobbling left and right. I had to constantly make adjustments to the steering wheel to keep the car moving straight. Turned out some axle bolt came loose. They’ve got some creative automotive engineers over there on deer creek road, i guess.
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Yeah the quality of the Tesla was one of the things I initially sacrificed as something I would have to live with. All the little rattles and buzzes were never fully addressed despite my taking it in several times. Also the screeching brakes on hills that they claimed they "couldn't reproduce" would surely have woken people up on the hills of SF, then I noticed other Teslas making the same sound as I would pass them on city streets.

I'll just say when you step back into the BMW you know it, everything is tight, nicely secured and comfortable. You probably have a smoother ride in your Tesla model but the M3 was rigid and bumpy so it was nice getting back into something with a smoother suspension. There is just no comparison between them in that regard.
 
BTW here's the thread on Reddit I posted about it if anyone wants to see feedback from the community over this one. BTW the r/realtesla sub is awesome because it's a safe place for current owners to say both positive and negative things about the car without all the kool aid drinkers.

 
diamond.g said:
I don't think the cables are derating for Tesla, I'm pretty sure it is the connector that ends up being the problem, it is why you can put a wet rag on it to get it to not derate (well until recently this worked).
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We're talking about related, but different things here. Yes, there are sensors in the handle which tend to be the ones to trigger derating, but there's also the design of the system.

Tesla wants an easier to work with cable, so you design for that. But it means going thinner, with less insulation or more flexible insulation which can have other drawbacks. Normally, you go for thicker gauge wire and insulation for commercial situations like this because you are aiming for high utilization and durability, and the usual guidance is for thicker current carrying wire to reduce heating when high utilization is expected. What Tesla has done instead is the opposite which exposes them to more heating at multiple places (resistive heating, undersized connections between the wire and the plug, etc), and they are relying on the temperature sensors to protect things. This is also why they've told people on social media to not use the wet rag trick as it defeats the protection mechanism they rely on to prevent damage to the cabling.
 
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