FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[rdrr]

I think my point is being missed here.

I am not trying to compare how much time Biden gets compared to Trump. I don't see either of them spending a day in prison. At least not for this.

I am simply saying that no charges will be brought against Trump for this because they would have to be brought against Biden and that isn't going to happen.

I am fine with Biden being investigated and if found guilty charged with a crime.

However, you seem to want Biden to be indicted now, or even before Trump. The Trump saga has been going on for over a year, and the evidence of the unreturned classified documents since August 2022. I should remind you also of the Right's hypocrisy in which we were beating about the head with "You cannot indict a sitting president." So... The investigation and indictment cannot happen until post 2024 (at least).

Oh and I cannot wait for a last minute Biden appointed judge to put the case on pause without any legal justification, for at least 3 months.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I am simply saying that no charges will be brought against Trump for this because they would have to be brought against Biden and that isn't going to happen.

Apples and oranges. It appears that Biden didn't even know the documents were where they were found. There's no indication he meant to keep them and he immediately turned them over. Intent is important. Trump knew about the stolen documents because he had them in his personal desk and he kept trying to justify keeping them (he snapped his fingers and they were declassified, they belong to him, everyone does it etc.), he failed to turn them over during months of discussion with the Archives and then the DOJ. He obstructed justice by not fully complying with the subpoena and apparently there are still some documents missing (empty folders).

 

[Yoused]

If I am unaware that I am 15 mph over the speed limit, does that get me off?

Probably not. But if you can make a reasonable case (e.g., the sign was obscured by a tree, look at this photo – but definitely not "I was on the phone"), you might get your fine reduced a little or a lot.

On the other hand, "I wasn't speeding! No way! All the witnesses are lying! The cameras and radars were rigged! And anyway, the speed limit is too low for that road. Sad." will not help your case and might earn you a suspended license.

 

[Herdfan]

Probably not. But if you can make a reasonable case (e.g., the sign was obscured by a tree, look at this photo – but definitely not "I was on the phone"), you might get your fine reduced a little or a lot.

On the other hand, "I wasn't speeding! No way! All the witnesses are lying! The cameras and radars were rigged! And anyway, the speed limit is too low for that road. Sad." will not help your case and might earn you a suspended license.

One time I actually got out of a ticket when I told the officer that a really good song came on and I had my head up my ass. Told me I was the first person that day that didn't lie to him and he let me go with a warning. LOL

I am fine with Biden being investigated and if found guilty charged with a crime.

However, you seem to want Biden to be indicted now, or even before Trump. The Trump saga has been going on for over a year, and the evidence of the unreturned classified documents since August 2022. I should remind you also of the Right's hypocrisy in which we were beating about the head with "You cannot indict a sitting president." So... The investigation and indictment cannot happen until post 2024 (at least).

Oh and I cannot wait for a last minute Biden appointed judge to put the case on pause without any legal justification, for at least 3 months.

No, I really just want him treated the same as Trump. Both legally and narratively. Biden broke the law and there are actually left-wing pundits hammering the WaPo and NYT for even covering the story. WTF?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

No, I really just want him treated the same as Trump. Both legally and narratively. Biden broke the law and there are actually left-wing pundits hammering the WaPo and NYT for even covering the story. WTF?

To be fair on both sides there’s a lot of false equivalency “don’t give them an inch, they’ll take a mile” defensiveness on a lot of issues. There’s a couple of reasons for this. In this specific example, you may see the clear differences but there are probably plenty of right-wing people who don’t think there’s any difference at all and nothing is going to change their mind about it once the seed is planted. The other reason is the opposition will use it to paint this as a behavior of the entire other side as opposed to individuals. We’d all be a lot better off just looking at the actions and circumstances of individuals but the ruling class media won’t let us even entertain that possibility.

At this point in history there’s a lot of speaking directly to extremist viewpoints as the first defense. For better or worse, we’ll see, it seems like they feel level headed critical thinkers don’t need to be talked to.

 

[bwinter88]

No, I really just want him treated the same as Trump. Both legally and narratively. Biden broke the law and there are actually left-wing pundits hammering the WaPo and NYT for even covering the story. WTF?

Let me guess, those "left-wing pundits" were talking heads on cable news? Ugh, again, why do you even bring these people into the conversation? They do not represent the views of liberals, they are just entertainers who are brought on to say dramatic, inflammatory things to generate views and controversy. Same goes for talking heads on the right. Eject these people from conversation, completely. Your news diet should be boring, because reality is complicated, and complex analysis is annoyingly drab. This "some people are saying" stuff is totally useless and just serves to inflame your emotions, can't you see that you're being manipulated that way?

I can give you a list of recommendations for podcasts with wonkish academics discussing these topics with the complexity they deserve, but for that, you need to be intellectually curious and desiring to actually understand the situation and not just to quash a hunger for controversy and drama.

 

[Herdfan]

Let me guess, those "left-wing pundits" were talking heads on cable news? Ugh, again, why do you even bring these people into the conversation? They do not represent the views of liberals, they are just entertainers who are brought on to say dramatic, inflammatory things to generate views and controversy. Same goes for talking heads on the right. Eject these people from conversation, completely. Your news diet should be boring, because reality is complicated, and complex analysis is annoyingly drab.

I agree with all of this. But people do watch them and listen to what they say. Yes, we were much better off when news consisted of the 3 networks evening news and CNN's HLN. But as noted, these people are now on the air 24/7 and people watch. And take their advice and then tell their friends.

 

[bwinter88]

I agree with all of this. But people do watch them and listen to what they say. Yes, we were much better off when news consisted of the 3 networks evening news and CNN's HLN. But as noted, these people are now on the air 24/7 and people watch. And take their advice and then tell their friends.

So. Stop. Doing. That. In this instance, you are the person watching and telling people. And it follows that your take of the situation is just as reductive and inaccurate. How does it help to watch, just because other people are watching? You end up just as misinformed as them and can offer nothing helpful to the conversation.

 

[Herdfan]

So. Stop. Doing. That. In this instance, you are the person watching and telling people.

Well you have a point there. Maybe we should get rid of Twitter.

 

[bwinter88]

Well you have a point there. Maybe we should get rid of Twitter.

Twitter provides such a diversity of sources that at least there was a chance you could improve the quality of your news diet by careful discernment. Happy to see Twitter go by the wayside in its current incarnation, though. Musk is making good work of that.

 

[rdrr]

No, I really just want him treated the same as Trump. Both legally and narratively. Biden broke the law and there are actually left-wing pundits hammering the WaPo and NYT for even covering the story. WTF?

Okay, maybe then you should wait until something other than a story comes out before clamoring for fair treatment. This story is days old and more information will come out. Compared to what was being reported for months that Trump wasn't cooperating with the National Archive, repeated letters requesting the return of all documents, then a court order, and finally a legal search. And then when that wasn't enough they compelled the Attorneys to do another search and what do you know... More documents! In this case we have Biden's team discovering documents and immediately turning them over. Fair treatment by the left? How about we look at the over-blown screaming by the Right.

I am all for an investigation by the DoJ, but I am going to do a pre-emptive guess that the Right is going to claim bias. You cannot however expect indictments to happen with a sitting president, right?

 

[KingOfPain]

On the other hand, "I wasn't speeding! No way! All the witnesses are lying! The cameras and radars were rigged! And anyway, the speed limit is too low for that road. Sad." will not help your case and might earn you a suspended license.

You forgot to add: And I removed the speed limit in my mind anyway!

 

[Yoused]

I really just want him treated the same as Trump. Both legally and narratively.

Individual-ONE was impeached by Congress, twice. Biden has not even been investigated, much less had a motion of impeachment brought out of committee. The reality is that Individual-ONE's behavior while in office demonstrated an obvious lack of fitness for the job and his venality is passing evident.

So, if you want them "treated the same", that treatment absolutely must account for the massive differences between the individuals themselves, because, that is how the legal system works.

 

[GermanSuplex]

They’ve found another batch, this is breaking.

Biden aides find second batch of classified documents at new location

On Monday, the White House acknowledged a "small number" of classified documents had been found in an office Biden used.

www.nbcnews.com

It’s good ammunition for the right and ammunition for Trump, politically and probably legally. Doesn’t matter whether it’s right or wrong, that’s politics and thems the breaks.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

They’ve found another batch, this is breaking.

Biden aides find second batch of classified documents at new location

On Monday, the White House acknowledged a "small number" of classified documents had been found in an office Biden used.

www.nbcnews.com

It’s good ammunition for the right and ammunition for Trump, politically and probably legally. Doesn’t matter whether it’s right or wrong, that’s politics and thems the breaks.

Biden: "Has anybody heard about my son's laptop?"

 

[Herdfan]

They’ve found another batch, this is breaking.

Biden aides find second batch of classified documents at new location

On Monday, the White House acknowledged a "small number" of classified documents had been found in an office Biden used.

www.nbcnews.com

It’s good ammunition for the right and ammunition for Trump, politically and probably legally. Doesn’t matter whether it’s right or wrong, that’s politics and thems the breaks.

This is one of those times where he probably wished he had kept quiet when asked about Trump having documents:

In September, Biden was asked by CBS' Scott Pelley how he felt when he saw the DoJ images of the top secret documents on the floor of Trump's Florida home, to which the president replied: "How that could possibly happen, how anyone could be that irresponsible."

Biden added: "And I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. By that, I mean, names of people who helped or et cetera. And it's just totally irresponsible."

Note: This comment leads one to believe the documents were laying around on the floor. They were not. They were simply placed there for pics.

 

[bwinter88]

Note: This comment leads one to believe the documents were laying around on the floor. They were not. They were simply placed there for pics.

Given those pics were taken in the course of an FBI raid executed on his personal residence after refusing to cooperate with authorities and purposefully withholding over 100 classified documents, then trying to claim they were his personal property, I don't think Biden's "irresponsible" remark was referring to the physical placement of the papers...

 

[Herdfan]

Given those pics were taken in the course of an FBI raid executed on his personal residence after refusing to cooperate with authorities and purposefully withholding over 100 classified documents, then trying to claim they were his personal property, I don't think Biden's "irresponsible" remark was referring to the physical placement of the papers...

Nor do I, but some of those talking heads we previously discussed couldn't believe that he had them laying all over the floor.

So I just wanted to be sure everyone knew.

 

[bwinter88]

Nor do I, but some of those talking heads we previously discussed couldn't believe that he had them laying all over the floor.

So I just wanted to be sure everyone knew.

Everyone knows. Let the talking heads pantomime.

By the way, while we are on the topic of news sources, if you want solid, in-depth legal analysis of stuff like this, I highly recommend the podcast Lawfare. I suspect there will be an episode on this situation in the coming days.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

BREAKING NEWS: Tape uncovered of Obama saying “Fuck those guys!” behind closed doors about the Republican-led Congress during his term. Republicans say this was a clear attempt to overthrow the government and the will of the people and demand an investigation.