FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Every former president now when asked if they have classified documents.

I wish we could hit a governmental reset button where there would be a general amnesty and the corrupt and corrupters would have a year to get their house in order and prepare for the new way things will be done. After that there are new hardline rules and laws that will be heavily enforced.

Among the new rules would be for every hour a government official spends with a lobbyist they need to spend an hour with people who would be negatively impacted by whatever it is the lobbyist is pushing for. If those people don’t automatically come forward then their staffers will seek them out.

Also any pharmaceutical breakthrough that is the result of taxpayer funded research, which is the majority, will come with an automatic price cap resellers can’t go above. Most major pharmaceutical corporations have more in common with Hollywood than they do with science.

But I digress.

 

[MEJHarrison]

I think I've posted this one before. Possibly in this very thread. But given all the recent news, I thought I'd post it again. This is about Hillary vs. the other guy, but it really does go into individuals having government documents in places they shouldn't have them. This is certainly not limited to presidents. They go into some of those other cases.

It's around 30 minutes, but I found it super educational. It was a short 30, not a long 30. Oh yeah, this guy is a lawyer, so this is all from a legal perspective.

 

[bwinter88]

I have to ask why the source matters. He is a sitting Congressman who made a statement. As long as his statement was quoted accurately it shouldn't matter who he said it to.

When Boebert appeared on CNN did anyone on this forum take what she said as a serious contention and express incredulity? Surely it is obvious to you the caliber of discussion that occurs on cable news, why even bother giving it oxygen? Like I said, it is entertainment.

I'm trying to get you to eat your vegetables, Herd

 

[Herdfan]

When Boebert appeared on CNN did anyone on this forum take what she said as a serious contention and express incredulity? Surely it is obvious to you the caliber of discussion that occurs on cable news, why even bother giving it oxygen? Like I said, it is entertainment.

I'm trying to get you to eat your vegetables, Herd

Maybe not. But when members of Congress say things, it is news. No matter how dumb it may be.

 

[bwinter88]

Maybe not. But when members of Congress say things, it is news. No matter how dumb it may be.

Not really, no. The bar for entry is low—Santos?—and House members say dumb stuff all the time. Especially these low-ranking members don't introduce bills nor vote out of lockstep with their party so they are basically village idiots with a slightly bigger megaphone and that's it. There's no need to seriously consider everything that comes out of MTG or Boebert's mouth. Your time is better spent listening to intelligent knowledgeable people, don't you want to be better informed? Or just gawk at fringe conspiracy theories floated by idiots? If your media diet consists solely of cable news channels that only play the dumb stuff, you won't know what's actually going on. What has to wonder what your motivation is for wanting to discuss the dumb things certain Congresspeople say and not cogent legal analysis by qualified experts, or really anyone with relevance.

Lawfare is out with their take of the situation. A summary:

• Biden's case doesn't change anything about Trump's case, other than to give Fox News and Jim Jordan something to talk about.
• The cable news hot take that "Garland can't go after Trump anymore" is false—there are two independent special counsels investigating now, and they will each come to separate recommendations on how to proceed based on the facts of the situation, and the facts for Trump are terrible—virtually a smoking gun.
• This situation vs. the Mar-a-lago situation is a false equivalency—but that won't stop Trump's lawyers from saying "Biden did it too" in court, which the judge will reject, but it will make it harder for a Florida jury, who will already almost certainly lean pro-Trump, to convict.
• We don't know all the facts yet, but it looks highly likely still that only Trump would face criminal charges given his involvement. The documents were volunteered by Biden's lawyers as soon as they were found, and as it stands, we don't even know if Biden was involved at all—all we know is that someone in Biden's orbit who handles his papers was. We can't say the same for Trump, who came out early to declare they were his and he could declassify with the power of his mind.
• The government's equity is not in mishandling of classified papers—it's in the release and dissemination of damaging information. A lot will hinge on whether papers were seen by anyone or just sat in a locked closet (for both this and the Mar-a-lago case)

 

[Herdfan]

What has to wonder what your motivation is for wanting to discuss the dumb things certain Congresspeople say and not cogent legal analysis by qualified experts, or really anyone with relevance.

You do realize there are threads here dedicated to stupid stuff certain Congress critters say. So I guess the motivation is the same as all the individuals that have posted in those threads.

Again, this is more of a political issue than a legal issue. Neither of them will be going to jail over the documents.

 

[bwinter88]

You do realize there are threads here dedicated to stupid stuff certain Congress critters say. So I guess the motivation is the same as all the individuals that have posted in those threads.

Maybe it's better suited to that thread then. I assumed people in this one want to be informed.

 

[GermanSuplex]

President Biden is trying to be transparent and honest, but talking about having classified docs next to your corvette in your garage is not a good idea. Hope they had a convo with him about that. That’s Joe being Joe, but we’re discussing a serious matter, not a dumb Trump tweet or something.

 

[Herdfan]

President Biden is trying to be transparent and honest,

So why did he wait 2 months to disclose this? Not very transparent. Also would love to see the visitor logs of everyone who has visited his house where the records were stored in the garage.

 

[Citysnaps]

Also would love to see the visitor logs of everyone who has visited his house where the records were stored in the garage.

I suspect Biden's "visitor log" of his personal residence would be greatly different than that of the Mar-a-Lago resort, especially with respect to the number of foreign nationals who frequently visit.

Are you really concerned about that?

 

[Citysnaps]

So why did he wait 2 months to disclose this?

My memory might be faulty, but weren't those documents recently discovered at his home?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

So why did he wait 2 months to disclose this?

Supply chain issues caused by covid and the war in Ukraine. Also he first wanted to finish watching season 1 of House of the Dragon. All very reasonable explanations for this situation and just about anything else.

 

[SuperMatt]

So why did he wait 2 months to disclose this? Not very transparent. Also would love to see the visitor logs of everyone who has visited his house where the records were stored in the garage.

The reports said they disclosed the find to the National Archives immediately.

Seems to me that Republicans are mad because these documents were found a couple days before the election and Biden’s team didn’t immediately call every press outlet in America to tell them about it before voters went to the polls. To compare it with Trump, the Biden DoJ kept Trump’s classified document issue under wraps for a year. Not seeing any special treatment for Biden in comparison.

 

[Hrafn]

Wait, now we care about classified documents? When did that happen?

 

[AG_PhamD]

President Biden is trying to be transparent and honest, but talking about having classified docs next to your corvette in your garage is not a good idea. Hope they had a convo with him about that. That’s Joe being Joe, but we’re discussing a serious matter, not a dumb Trump tweet or something.

I wish he would stop saying “ I take classified documents seriously”. Such phrasing is just asking for someone to make a joke out of the other way one could interpret that sentence (I take classified documents, seriously).

Being a legal matter, likely a fairly complicated one, it’s not surprising Biden and his team aren’t saying much. As angry as people get about that, as they often do in such cases, I don’t blame Biden and his admin for keeping their mouths shut.

 

[Herdfan]

My memory might be faulty, but weren't those documents recently discovered at his home?

No. They found them in December.

 

[Citysnaps]

No. They found them in December.

Which documents are we talking about (those discovered at the Penn Biden Center think tank, or, those discovered at his personal residence)?

In any case, weren't the finds immediately reported to the National Archive?

 

[ronntaylor]

Which documents are we talking about (those discovered at the Penn Biden Center think tank, or, those discovered at his personal residence)?

In any case, weren't the finds immediately reported to the National Archive?

Yes. But one must conflate the situations to lessen Mango's shitty behavior. No request for return by The National Archives. No lying about being declassified (by actual procedural means or simply wishing it so). No lying about all documents being returned... twice. No whining about a witch-hunt for failure to return all documents. No whining about a Special Counsel appointment within two months instead of nearly a year after discovery of sensitive documents. Hell, Biden's team could have kept quiet entirely as The National Archives wasn't even aware of the documents at Penn-Biden think tank or at The Hunter Biden Accessible Garage™ (let's just give a proper name to the continuing GQP bogeyman).

 

[Herdfan]

Which documents are we talking about (those discovered at the Penn Biden Center think tank, or, those discovered at his personal residence)?

In any case, weren't the finds immediately reported to the National Archive?

Documents at the Penn Biden Center were discovered in late October. Reported to NA.

Apparently this led to searches of other locations and documents were found in 2 places in his Wilmington residence in December. Reported to NA.

Monday, based on a CBS News report that was going to be released on the finding of the docs, the WH disclosed the docs at the Penn Biden Center. On Thursday, after another news report was about to drop, they disclosed the docs found at his residence.

 

[Citysnaps]

Documents at the Penn Biden Center were discovered in late October. Reported to NA.

Apparently this led to searches of other locations and documents were found in 2 places in his Wilmington residence in December. Reported to NA.

Monday, based on a CBS News report that was going to be released on the finding of the docs, the WH disclosed the docs at the Penn Biden Center. On Thursday, after another news report was about to drop, they disclosed the docs found at his residence.

What's important is immediate notification to the National Archives, not claiming ownership of the documents, and not saying he willed them declassified.

Immediate cooperation, rather than obfuscation.