Guns are still America’s religion

SuperMatt said:
Here’s a sad (but 100% predictable) update to this story.

MSN

www.msn.com


I’m not a lawyer, but if the law truly "does not authorize the filing of any criminal charges," then the law is seriously f-ed up.
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Investigators said Morales then pointed her gun at Derr, who then drew his own handgun and shot Morales multiple times.
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Hit and run followed by pointing a gun at the guy. This is pretty close to darwin award territory.


Note, if you try to hit someone with your car, that can be attempted murder, regardless of the outcome.

Police say Derr and other witnesses followed Morales to the intersection of Highway 17-92 and Wisconsin Avenue, where they told Morales to stop and that law enforcement had been called.

“Is the motorcycle down on the ground?,” a dispatcher can be heard asking in 911 calls released by the Orange City Police Department Monday. “Is he breathing and conscious?”

“He’s fine ... the lady just took off and left,” the caller responds.
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thekev said:
Hit and run followed by pointing a gun at the guy. This is pretty close to darwin award territory.


Note, if you try to hit someone with your car, that can be attempted murder, regardless of the outcome.
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Yes, according to the killer and the supposedly independent witnesses, (who followed her home too… yeah what unrelated bystander would ever follow somebody to their house after observing strangers in a minor accident with no injuries?) she did it on purpose.

Not sure how this would qualify for a Darwin Award since the killer never said he had a weapon.

She claimed that they were threatening and harassing her on her 911 call… so I thought other gun owners said before - if you are being threatened, especially on your own property, you have a right to get your gun to defend yourself.

Sorry I just don’t believe quick draw McGraw is innocent. His behavior was absolutely unnecessary. If he let the police handle it instead of trying to mete out his own justice for a minor accident with no injuries, this never would have happened.
 
Sounds like she was the Quick Draw McGraw who pulled her gun out first. But she wasn’t fast enough ;)

Why are y’all not more upset at her for introducing a gun into this incident? Just surprising for anti gun people to give her a pass for pulling out a gun and then say he was “hiding” his. Lol

This would have never happened and she’d be alive if she didn’t pull out a gun.

Thoughts and prayers
 
Joe said:
Sounds like she was the Quick Draw McGraw who pulled her gun out first. But she wasn’t fast enough ;)

Why are y’all not more upset at her for introducing a gun into this incident? Just surprising for anti gun people to give her a pass for pulling out a gun and then say he was “hiding” his. Lol

This would have never happened and she’d be alive if she didn’t pull out a gun.

Thoughts and prayers
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Perhaps she’d still be alive if she hadn’t pulled out a gun. You cannot say that her “introducing a gun…” caused this. The killer had a gun on his person the entire time. He drove to somebody’s home, full of road rage, knowing he was hiding a gun.

If neither party had a gun, the police presumably would have arrived and handled it... and we wouldn’t even be talking about it. Maybe. I can’t say for sure.

Your statement that this never would have happened… is an assumption. You weren’t there, and don’t know what the killer might have done if she simply cowered in fear from their harassment in her home. Maybe they would burn it down. They were clearly acting irrationally, since they followed somebody home after a minor accident with no injuries and the cops on the way to take a report. You’re entitled to make that statement, but the fact is you don’t know what would have happened.
 
SuperMatt said:
Perhaps she’d still be alive if she hadn’t pulled out a gun. You cannot say that her “introducing a gun…” caused this. The killer had a gun on his person the entire time. He drove to somebody’s home, full of road rage, knowing he was hiding a gun.

If neither party had a gun, the police presumably would have arrived and handled it... and we wouldn’t even be talking about it. Maybe. I can’t say for sure.

Your statement that this never would have happened… is an assumption. You weren’t there, and don’t know what the killer might have done if she simply cowered in fear from their harassment in her home. Maybe they would burn it down. They were clearly acting irrationally, since they followed somebody home after a minor accident with no injuries and the cops on the way to take a report. You’re entitled to make that statement, but the fact is you don’t know what would have happened.
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You have made a lot of assumptions on this case as well. You weren't there either. None of us were there.

Her introducing a gun definitely caused this. You yourself have said the biker had a gun on himself the entire time....hidden. You know what that means right? He wasn't threatening her with his gun if it was hidden and she didn't know he had one. He didn't pull out his gun until she had hers pointed at him. His gun was concealed. You keep saying he was hiding his gun like it's a bad thing. Lots of people conceal their weapons. It doesn't mean they're hiding it and out to get you.
 
Joe said:
Sounds like she was the Quick Draw McGraw who pulled her gun out first. But she wasn’t fast enough ;)

Why are y’all not more upset at her for introducing a gun into this incident? Just surprising for anti gun people to give her a pass for pulling out a gun and then say he was “hiding” his. Lol

This would have never happened and she’d be alive if she didn’t pull out a gun.

Thoughts and prayers
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Your logic does not quite add up Imo, no offense. Guns were in the middle of all this. It’s as simple as asking what would have happened if no guns were available? See my post:

Post in thread '17 Year-old Blue Lives Matter Activist with AR 15 Charged With Murder After Two Killed at Protest'
https://talkedabout.com/threads/17-...er-after-two-killed-at-protest.181/post-94585
 
Huntn said:
Your logic does not quite add up Imo, no offense. Guns were in the middle of all this. It’s as simple as asking what would have happened if no guns were available? See my post:

Post in thread '17 Year-old Blue Lives Matter Activist with AR 15 Charged With Murder After Two Killed at Protest'
https://talkedabout.com/threads/17-...er-after-two-killed-at-protest.181/post-94585
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Yes, guns were in the middle of all of this. I agree. But some keep blaming the biker and not the woman that pulled the gun first. That’s the whole issue.
 
Joe said:
Yes, guns were in the middle of all of this. I agree. But some keep blaming the biker and not the woman that pulled the gun first. That’s the whole issue.
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People blame the person who actually killed somebody. Because they killed somebody. It may have been justifiable “in the moment.” However, that moment never happens if you don’t follow a stranger home after a minor accident. Guns aside, that is a baffling part of all this. Don’t people have better things to do? Even if you could use the excuse of “I didn’t copy down their license plate…” why didn’t they simply note the person’s address after she got to her house and leave her alone?

You do not have a right to follow somebody like that and harass them at their home. If no guns were involved, would anybody excuse chasing a person home after a minor accident and harassing them? I don’t think so.

Kyle Rittenhouse used a similar defense: “in the moment” he had to defend himself. But his actions directly led to the “moment” in which force was necessary. Yes, in his case (and this one), the victim took unwise actions, but the situation was created and/or escalated by the killer in both cases.

It’s possible the killer truly did fear for his life at the instant he saw the gun. It’s also possible the deceased woman feared for her life when she was followed home by 3 strangers who were yelling at her. If she had shot him dead, she probably could have claimed self defense too.

Everybody should get rid of their guns, IMO. The amount of lives saved by guns is DWARFED by the number of lives lost. The woman probably would be alive if she didn’t have a gun, although there’s no way to know for sure. What is wrong is that the law seems to be all about a moment, and not about the actions of a killer that led to such a moment.
 
SuperMatt said:
However, that moment never happens if you don’t follow a stranger home after a minor accident.
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You keep calling it a "minor accident". That characterization seems to be completely wrong. We have accounts that suggest that it might not have been an accident at all but an intentional collision. The accounts may be biased, but they seem to be all we have to go on.

On top of that, it was clearly not "minor", inasmuch as they followed her home. If it had truly been a minor thing, she might not have fled, and/or they might not have pursued.

Of course, there was a lot of hot stupid here, and, well, having guns around high tempers is a bad thing – though, the same can often be said about cars.
 
Yoused said:
You keep calling it a "minor accident". That characterization seems to be completely wrong. We have accounts that suggest that it might not have been an accident at all but an intentional collision. The accounts may be biased, but they seem to be all we have to go on.

On top of that, it was clearly not "minor", inasmuch as they followed her home. If it had truly been a minor thing, she might not have fled, and/or they might not have pursued.

Of course, there was a lot of hot stupid here, and, well, having guns around high tempers is a bad thing – though, the same can often be said about cars.
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The police called it a “minor crash” and stated that he was not injured and did not fall off his motorcycle. He vastly overreacted. My guess is that his response scared her into driving off.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1462903788558295047/

Also, why did the 911 operator fail to tell them NOT to follow the woman’s car?
 
A bit more detail about the case and decision not to prosecute.

www.news-journalonline.com

Prosecutors: No charges against man who shot and killed Volusia library assistant

Andrew Derr, of Orange City, shot and killed Volusia library assistant Sara-Nicole Morales, who was armed with a gun, after a road rage incident.
www.news-journalonline.com

The incident began when Derr tried to pass Morales and she moved her car into his lane, causing Derr to swerve, according to a witness' statement in a report.

Derr then "became aggressive," yelling and waving as he continued to ride next to Morales' vehicle, the witness said in the report.

Morales swerved her car at the biker, the report said. Her vehicle struck the motorcycle's saddle bag, leaving a scuff mark and almost causing the biker to wreck, according to the report.

Derr then kicked Morales' car, a witness stated in the report.
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Hmm, becoming a bit more clear why a woman might not want to wait around at an accident scene to see what Mr. road rage would do next.

Pulling out a gun when she got home was a big mistake, but leaving the scene looks like it was done for her self-preservation.

Again, he clearly escalated this and just like Rittenhouse, bears some responsibility for what he did… but gets away with it.
 
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SuperMatt said:
Hmm, becoming a bit more clear why a woman might not want to wait around at an accident scene to see what Mr. road rage would do next.
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OK, I will make this as clear as possible.

I have not ridden a motorcycle, and it sounds like you have not either. However, I have ridden a bicycle on the streets. For about a decade, my bike was my car, because, reasons. In that respect, I can empathize with motorcyclists.

When you are on two wheels, all those four wheeled vehicles are big stupid deathboxes. It does not matter if the driver has a PhD in physics or won the Nobel Peace Prize, as a motorist they are stupid assholes, and even when they try to be decent it often turns out poorly.

This is where the biker was coming from. The driver of the 1.5 ton deathbox tried to kill him. That is what he and his friends saw. It really does not matter whether she was being hostile or just inconsiderate, when someone else hangs your life out on a string, it is not mildly upsetting.

In truth, her sloppy/aggressive driving in this case was exactly like mishandling a gun. You cannot just brush it off with a "she was scared" – how do you think the biker felt when she tried to lay him down, "meh"? This cannot be overstated. Drivers tool about in their safe little universes with almost no understanding of what is going on outside of those universes. I know this, because I have seen it from both sides.

Again, the gun part made the whole situation worse, but she had already called for help and really should have stayed in the house.
 
Yoused said:
I have not ridden a motorcycle, and it sounds like you have not either. However, I have ridden a bicycle on the streets. For about a decade, my bike was my car, because, reasons. In that respect, I can empathize with motorcyclists.

When you are on two wheels, all those four wheeled vehicles are big stupid deathboxes. It does not matter if the driver has a PhD in physics or won the Nobel Peace Prize, as a motorist they are stupid assholes, and even when they try to be decent it often turns out poorly.
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And that is the reason I sold my bike and stopped riding 25+ years ago. Having to be hyper-aware of everything around you was taking the enjoyment away from it. And it wasn't only vehicles, but road hazards like tar snakes and even where someone has mowed their grass into the road. Cars don't have to be aware of those things, motorcycles do.

So I do agree that a car, even if it just swerved at you and didn't hit you could set someone off.
 
People that choose to ride motorcycles know the risk they are taking. Using that risk as a reason to hate all other drivers to the point of excusing violence against them? Sorry, they take the risk; it’s their issue.

I have friends who ride and my uncle used to ride. They never behaved like the killer in this tragedy.

There is no excuse for his behavior. If people driving badly sets you off to the point of violence, you should not ride a motorcycle, and you should DEFINITELY not carry a firearm.
 
SuperMatt said:
People that choose to ride motorcycles know the risk they are taking. Using that risk as a reason to hate all other drivers to the point of excusing violence against them? Sorry, they take the risk; it’s their issue.

I have friends who ride and my uncle used to ride. They never behaved like the killer in this tragedy.

There is no excuse for his behavior. If people driving badly sets you off to the point of violence, you should not ride a motorcycle, and you should DEFINITELY not carry a firearm.
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I witness bad driving almost every time I'm on a highway or large roads. But TBH, I'm more likely to see bad driving & behavior from bikers (motorcyclists and bicyclists). From weaving in and out of stalled traffic. Abrupt lane changes. Surrounding cars. And definitely antagonizing others (vehicles). I can't remember all of this story, so don't recall if there's any video. The killer said she intentionally drove into his lane and bike. Is there any proof beyond his words? She obviously can't tell her side of the story. He appears to be a hothead and this road rage incident took a deadly turn.
 
ronntaylor said:
I witness bad driving almost every time I'm on a highway or large roads. But TBH, I'm more likely to see bad driving & behavior from bikers (motorcyclists and bicyclists). From weaving in and out of stalled traffic. Abrupt lane changes. Surrounding cars. And definitely antagonizing others (vehicles). I can't remember all of this story, so don't recall if there's any video. The killer said she intentionally drove into his lane and bike. Is there any proof beyond his words? She obviously can't tell her side of the story. He appears to be a hothead and this road rage incident took a deadly turn.
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A guy on a Vespa (or similar… didn’t check) hit my car trying to squeeze by it while I was stopped at a light 2 days ago. Only hit my side-view mirror, and didn’t damage it, and he took a moment to straighten my mirror back out which was nice. I decided not to scream at him or follow him home.
 
SuperMatt said:
People that choose to ride motorcycles know the risk they are taking. Using that risk as a reason to hate all other drivers to the point of excusing violence against them? Sorry, they take the risk; it’s their issue.

I have friends who ride and my uncle used to ride. They never behaved like the killer in this tragedy.

There is no excuse for his behavior. If people driving badly sets you off to the point of violence, you should not ride a motorcycle, and you should DEFINITELY not carry a firearm.
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The only person that was violent was the woman that was killed. She intentionally tried to hit him with her vehicle and she intentionally pulled a gun on him.

She should have never owned a firearm with that temper.
 
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