Guns are still America’s religion

[SuperMatt]

But they do have an agenda.

Who are the members of “they” and what is “their” agenda?

 

[Joe]

I believe the situation in Ukraine is similar to what the American founders were talking about when they wrote the 2nd amendment. It was NOT for people to carry guns everywhere and shoot each other at the movie theater, or mass-murder kindergarteners. I would have NO problem with each locality maintaining an armory with weapons to be distributed in case some country invades.

It won't be another country

 

[SuperMatt]

Florida summed up in a single tweet.

Here’s a sad (but 100% predictable) update to this story.

MSN

www.msn.com

In a statement Tuesday, the State Attorney’s Office said after reviewing the case they would not be filing criminal charges.

“While the facts in this case are truly heart-breaking, the law does not authorize the filing of any criminal charges. Our sincerest thoughts and prayers go out to the Morales family,” the statement said.

I’m not a lawyer, but if the law truly "does not authorize the filing of any criminal charges," then the law is seriously f-ed up.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Here’s a sad (but 100% predictable) update to this story.

MSN

www.msn.com

I’m not a lawyer, but if the law truly "does not authorize the filing of any criminal charges," then the law is seriously f-ed up.

They're both idiots. It's an avalanche of "and that's where it should have ended" that just keeps going. Instead of pulling out their guns they should have pulled out cell phones, shot a couple photos or videos and gone on with their day.

 

[SuperMatt]

They're both idiots. It's an avalanche of "and that's where it should have ended" that just keeps going. Instead of pulling out their guns they should have pulled out cell phones, shot a couple photos or videos and gone on with their day.

In the end somebody was gunned down, on their own property, and nobody held responsible.

And I STRONGLY disagree with equal blame for both parties here. You do NOT follow somebody home after a fender bender, period... and you don’t harass them at home, and then gun them down when they come out of their house with a gun to try and scare you off. Should she have stayed in her home? I don’t know. Perhaps these guys would have come in. She probably thought waving the gun around would scare them off. She had to calculate how best to survive - HOPE the biker gang that followed her home won’t come in and kill her, or try to scare them off with a gun?

That guy deserves to be in jail, and the Florida legislature still won’t fix this law. They are made up of 2-3 baskets worth of deplorables.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

In the end somebody was gunned down, on their own property, and nobody held responsible.

And I STRONGLY disagree with equal blame for both parties here. You do NOT follow somebody home after a fender bender, period... and you don’t harass them at home, and then gun them down when they come out of their house with a gun to try and scare you off. Should she have stayed in her home? I don’t know. Perhaps these guys would have come in. She probably thought waving the gun around would scare them off. She had to calculate how best to survive - HOPE the biker gang that followed her home won’t come in and kill her, or try to scare them off with a gun?

That guy deserves to be in jail, and the Florida legislature still won’t fix this law. They are made up of 2-3 baskets worth of deplorables.

I'm going back to where it started. "Officers said a blue Kia driven by 35-year-old Sara Morales intentionally hit a motorcycle and fled the scene." followed by "they told Morales to stop and that law enforcement had been called." Doesn't sound like she was just innocently minding her own business and out of nowhere this all went down for no reason.

And if you are truly scared you stay in your house and wait for the police, not run out and start pointing a gun at people, especially in Florida where there's a good chance that what ended up happening would happen. This was somebody who was emboldened by having a gun, somehow believing waving it around would de-escalate the situation instead of the exact opposite. Its top tier gun culture.

 

[SuperMatt]

I'm going back to where it started. "Officers said a blue Kia driven by 35-year-old Sara Morales intentionally hit a motorcycle and fled the scene." followed by "they told Morales to stop and that law enforcement had been called." Doesn't sound like she was just innocently minding her own business and out of nowhere this all went down for no reason.

And if you are truly scared you stay in your house and wait for the police, not run out and start pointing a gun at people, especially in Florida where there's a good chance that what ended up happening would happen. This was somebody who was emboldened by having a gun, somehow believing waving it around would de-escalate the situation instead of the exact opposite. Its top tier gun culture.

It was a fender bender, with no apparent damage to the motorcycle, and the driver didn’t even fall off the bike, as his friends told the operator.

The only people who can corroborate the story that she “intentionally” hit the motorcycle? The biker’s friends who drove with him as he illegally followed her home.

This murderer disobeyed the law, which says to report the event to the police and then wait “at the scene” for the police to arrive. He did NOT wait at the scene as the law required. He disobeyed that law, and tried to take the law into his own hands, for no good reason.

You do NOT follow another driver home after a fender bender, especially when you already got their plate information. And if somebody is on their own lawn waving a gun around, you LEAVE THEIR PROPERTY. You don’t shoot them.

WTF is up with the both-sides nonsense? Sometimes one ”side” is just plain wrong.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

It was a fender bender, with no apparent damage to the motorcycle, and the driver didn’t even fall off the bike, as his friends told the operator.

The only people who can corroborate the story that she “intentionally” hit the motorcycle? The biker’s friends who drove with him as he illegally followed her home.

This murderer disobeyed the law, which says to report the event to the police and then wait “at the scene” for the police to arrive. He did NOT wait at the scene as the law required. He disobeyed that law, and tried to take the law into his own hands, for no good reason.

You do NOT follow another driver home after a fender bender, especially when you already got their plate information. And if somebody is on their own lawn waving a gun around, you LEAVE THEIR PROPERTY. You don’t shoot them.

WTF is up with the both-sides nonsense? Sometimes one ”side” is just plain wrong.

Um, she also left the scene. And after she was told to wait because the police were on their way. Getting shot doesn’t automatically excuse a string of bad decisions before it got there, especially if you were the one who brought guns into the situation. What was she thinking, that somebody who called the police would a short while later shoot her at home while waiting for them to arrive? That makes zero sense. “Hello, police. A woman hit our motorcycle and is leaving the scene. I’m going to follow her and give her a beatdown at the first opportunity. See you there.”

 

[SuperMatt]

Um, she also left the scene. And after she was told to wait because the police were on their way. Getting shot doesn’t automatically excuse a string of bad decisions before it got there, especially if you were the one who brought guns into the situation. What was she thinking, that somebody who called the police would a short while later shoot her at home while waiting for them to arrive? That makes zero sense. “Hello, police. A woman hit our motorcycle and is leaving the scene. I’m going to follow her and give her a beatdown at the first opportunity. See you there.”

Well, I strongly disagree. Perhaps if a group of angry bikers followed you home and harassed you, you’d see the other side of this. In the end, the law is to blame. Either party could have claimed “stand your ground” in this case. It’s beyond absurd when the law allowed a person to be followed home, then shot on their own property, and it’s excused by a “stand your ground” law. Following somebody for miles is not “standing your ground” at all.

Perhaps it is hard for me to understand the side of this where you would follow somebody home after they left the scene, especially if you already got their license plate. I mean, whatever damage to your car, when the cops get there to file their report, the other driver can’t defend themselves, so you’re in a great position when it comes to insurance.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Well, I'm just so happy.

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signs permitless concealed carry bill into law | CNN Politics

Eligible adults in Ohio will soon be able to carry a concealed handgun without a license or training following legislation signed into law Monday night by Republican Gov. Mike DeWine.

www.cnn.com

When stopped by police, a person will no longer have to "promptly inform" the officer that they're carrying a concealed handgun, though they will have to disclose that they have a concealed handgun when an officer asks them.
The law also lowers the penalty for not telling a police officer about a concealed handgun from a first-degree misdemeanor to a second-degree misdemeanor and does not allow a police officer to arrest a person solely because they didn't promptly show their concealed carry license.

People who had violated the prior notification requirements may also apply to have their record expunged.

Once in effect, the new law will still allow Ohioans to apply for concealed carry permits, but undergoing training and background check to legally carry a concealed handgun will be optional.

"Nowhere in the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution does it say you have to have training to defend yourself or to bear arms," Republican state Sen. Terry Johnson, who sponsored Senate Bill 215, said last fall.

The Constitution doesn't say you have to take Driver's Ed to drive a car, either, so I guess we'll just let everybody behind the wheel without knowing traffic laws or how to aim two tons of rolling metal and gasoline.

Cops, needless to say, are not big fans of this new law. Nor should they be.

But hey, on the positive side...more people will be running around, in our increasingly angry society, with lethal weapons on their person without even the slightest idea of how and when to correctly use them.

The only thing that makes me angrier than this right now is that Ohio is the 23rd state to adopt this kind of law.

 

[Herdfan]

When stopped by police, a person will no longer have to "promptly inform" the officer that they're carrying a concealed handgun, though they will have to disclose that they have a concealed handgun when an officer asks them.

I travel to OH quite a bit and for years had no idea this was required. Not a big deal to do it anyway.

 

[ronntaylor]

Perhaps it is hard for me to the side of this where you would follow somebody home after they left the scene, especially if you already got their license plate. I mean, whatever damage to your car, when the cops get there to file their report, the other driver can’t defend themselves, so you’re in a great position when it comes to insurance.

He/they were in a rage and out for revenge. The authorities are permitting vigilante justice. They're basically saying in the future that the first to shoot and kill is the party allowed to use SYG.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Well, I strongly disagree. Perhaps if a group of angry bikers followed you home and harassed you, you’d see the other side of this. In the end, the law is to blame. Either party could have claimed “stand your ground” in this case. It’s beyond absurd when the law allowed a person to be followed home, then shot on their own property, and it’s excused by a “stand your ground” law. Following somebody for miles is not “standing your ground” at all.

Perhaps it is hard for me to understand the side of this where you would follow somebody home after they left the scene, especially if you already got their license plate. I mean, whatever damage to your car, when the cops get there to file their report, the other driver can’t defend themselves, so you’re in a great position when it comes to insurance.

If a group of angry bikers followed me home I sure wouldn’t leave the relative safety of my house to run outside and wave a gun around. I’d stay inside with the police on the phone until they arrived. If she didn’t have a gun and run outside with it she’d still be alive. Again, the police were already aware of the situation and she knew that. But because she owned a gun she felt emboldened to put herself at unnecessary risk, a lot greater risk then just staying in the house. I don’t even think most responsible gun owners would do that.

We all have biases and depending on the situation that favors that bias we could come to that same conclusion. If somebody shot one of those idiots that came out of their house armed just because a BLM march was going down their street I think there’s plenty of people who would see it as a threat that they brought on themselves. It’s not a big motion to go from holding a gun to pointing it at somebody, even by accident. Once it’s pointed at you, you have the right to fire in self defense.

I don’t get the mentality of following somebody home when they leave the scene of an accident either. Like I said in my original response, there were all kinds of steps in this situation where all involved should have stopped taking it further. It seems all involved had some level of irrationality throughout.

 

[SuperMatt]

If she didn’t have a gun and run outside with it she’d still be alive.

You do not know that for certain. Somebody angry enough to follow somebody home because the paint on their motorcycle got scratched has serious issues. And somebody being followed by a group of angry men on motorcycles is probably scared and also not acting rationally.

Again, the “stand your ground” and other lax gun laws in America are as much to blame as the person who pulled the trigger.

Finally, I take every single claim of the bikers with a grain of salt. They are the only LIVING witnesses to what happened. Did the woman point a gun at them? Or just show that she had it? Hmm... funny only the killer and his biker buddies are alive to tell the tale. Just like “she intentionally hit my bike.”

It seems MUCH more plausible to me that these guys were angry and acting out of rage than a pregnant librarian going postal. The killer should be locked up, period. The prosecutors are abdicating their responsibility and hiding behind the (admittedly terrible) stand your ground law.

 

[Yoused]

You do not know that for certain. Somebody angry enough to follow somebody home because the paint on their motorcycle got scratched has serious issues.

OK, even you have to concede that that is pretty weak. If she "scratched the paint" on his motorcycle, well, just think about that for a moment. There is really no way to scratch the paint on a bike without either hitting the rider or laying down the bike, neither of which is a minor thing.

Perhaps she merely rear-ended him, hit his back tire. That is still a very long way from ok. Compared to being in cars, bike riders are extremely vulnerable, and messing with them using tons of steel is all kinds of wrong. I mean, just think about how you felt the last time you almost had an accident. Just a close call on a bike is terrifying/infuriating even if there is no contact. What a motorist sees as a litte oopsie a biker sees as a holy shit! So please stop minimizing the initial encounter.

Finally, I take every single claim of the bikers with a grain of salt. They are the only LIVING witnesses to what happened. Did the woman point a gun at them? Or just show that she had it?

Does it make any difference? If someone has a gun, why should another person be compelled to wait for it to be pointed at them? As far as I am concerned, if someone else has a gun in their hand, they are going to use it. I do not personally own, much less carry a gun, so my course of action is normally GTFOT.

Nobody was in the right in this incident, and the pregnant librarian is far from being an innocent victim. The biker should probably be charged with negligent use of a firearm rather than get off scot-free, but murder, no, not so much.

 

[SuperMatt]

OK, even you have to concede that that is pretty weak. If she "scratched the paint" on his motorcycle, well, just think about that for a moment. There is really no way to scratch the paint on a bike without either hitting the rider or laying down the bike, neither of which is a minor thing.

Perhaps she merely rear-ended him, hit his back tire. That is still a very long way from ok. Compared to being in cars, bike riders are extremely vulnerable, and messing with them using tons of steel is all kinds of wrong. I mean, just think about how you felt the last time you almost had an accident. Just a close call on a bike is terrifying/infuriating even if there is no contact. What a motorist sees as a litte oopsie a biker sees as a holy shit! So please stop minimizing the initial encounter.



Does it make any difference? If someone has a gun, why should another person be compelled to wait for it to be pointed at them? As far as I am concerned, if someone else has a gun in their hand, they are going to use it. I do not personally own, much less carry a gun, so my course of action is normally GTFOT.

Nobody was in the right in this incident, and the pregnant librarian is far from being an innocent victim. The biker should probably be charged with negligent use of a firearm rather than get off scot-free, but murder, no, not so much.

Following somebody home (uninvited) after a fender bender is never ok. The rider was not ejected from the bike. Nobody was injured. I don’t know if the paint was even scratched. If the killer had just moved on with his life, given a report to the cops, nobody would be dead. Period. And the cops would have gone to the woman’s house and dealt with the situation properly.

Don’t forget, the killer followed somebody, in anger, knowing he had a concealed weapon. The woman made some bad choices, but the killer’s blame is vastly more than hers for the death. This guy can go hang out with George Zimmerman and OJ Simpson and have a few drinks and a few laughs.

 

[Herdfan]

If the killer had just moved on with his life, given a report to the cops, nobody would be dead. Period.

And if she had waited for the Police at the scene, like the law required, no one would be dead either. Period.

She may be the victim, but she is not innocent.

 

[Huntn]

Well, I'm just so happy.

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signs permitless concealed carry bill into law | CNN Politics

Eligible adults in Ohio will soon be able to carry a concealed handgun without a license or training following legislation signed into law Monday night by Republican Gov. Mike DeWine.

www.cnn.com

The Constitution doesn't say you have to take Driver's Ed to drive a car, either, so I guess we'll just let everybody behind the wheel without knowing traffic laws or how to aim two tons of rolling metal and gasoline.

Cops, needless to say, are not big fans of this new law. Nor should they be.

But hey, on the positive side...more people will be running around, in our increasingly angry society, with lethal weapons on their person without even the slightest idea of how and when to correctly use them.

The only thing that makes me angrier than this right now is that Ohio is the 23rd state to adopt this kind of law.

STUPID is as STUPID does…

 

[SuperMatt]

And if she had waited for the Police at the scene, like the law required, no one would be dead either. Period.

She may be the victim, but she is not innocent.

Two wrongs DO make a right! Well, at least for the killer who is happily sipping a beer right now while a pregnant mother is dead and an unborn baby never saw the light of day because of bullets he fired.

So much for the “pro-life” laws in Florida. It’s just the Wild West. What an utter disaster.

 

[Huntn]

Two wrongs DO make a right! Well, at least for the killer who is happily sipping a beer right now while a pregnant mother is dead and an unborn baby never saw the light of day because of bullets he fired.

So much for the “pro-life” laws in Florida. It’s just the Wild West. What an utter disaster.

Selective pro-life:
I’m pro-life as long as I don’t have to pay anything to get it born, or after it’s born and have the discretion to end it because “I“ feel threatened or am told no.