Jimmyjames
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Was it mentioned when he thinks the mini will arrive? I’d guess October or November? Seems unlikely they’d launch near the iPhone.
M4 Rumors (requests for).
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Nycturne
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I was pontificating on the idea as presented by another poster, and the technical challenges vs the iMac. I’m not actually suggesting this is likely.
NotEntirelyConfused
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That would be highly problematic for a really small device, especially if passively cooled. 10GbT uses a ton of power compared to 1G. I've seen numbers from 2-10W more. In a really small or passive box even another 2W is unwelcome.
Putting it on an external brick is actually a pretty creative solution. But it has downsides too. I'm not sure what it would take to terminate the ethernet at the brick and get a good 10G signal to the Mac. Use twinax like a DAC, I think. You're at the least paying for more hardware that way, though it shouldn't cost *that* much more.
If you give up on 10G, of course, none of this is a problem.
NotEntirelyConfused
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If MR is correct (here), that strongly suggests M4s will have a minimum of 16GB. Good news, especially for all the pessimists who were hoping for 12GB.
On the down side, they're apparently shipping at least one model with a 4P4E M4. So going for 4P6E is likely to set you back, say, $200. I guess that answers the question about how they're going to bin for good/better configurations.
Of course this isn't certain, but it seems extremely likely.
On the down side, they're apparently shipping at least one model with a 4P4E M4. So going for 4P6E is likely to set you back, say, $200. I guess that answers the question about how they're going to bin for good/better configurations.
Of course this isn't certain, but it seems extremely likely.
exoticspice1
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Only one Mac will have 4+4 config going by the report and I think that's the base Mac mini,
The other macs, the 2 port and 4 port iMac and 14 MacBook pro base will have 4+6
That'd be me.
Yeah hopefully Gurman is correct, it'd be nice to move off of 8GB and while the market is indeed moving towards a 16GB minimum I had to admit I was pessimistic that Apple would. I considered it very unlikely - happy to proven wrong though when release comes!So they are rumored to be binning by E-core ... I think you and I had a discussion about this on MR and at the time the sketchy rumors/analysis pointed to binning by E-core on the phone but I agreed with you that, as a practical matter, binning on the E-cores didn't seem to make a lot of sense given their small size. It seems like that 4P4E also comes with 8 GPU cores too though, that makes more sense. Still, for the CPU, better 4+4 for MT throughput than the iPad's 3+6 I would think ...
Aye. Gurman is most accurate a few weeks before launch and of course nothing is real until it hits shelves and is in consumer hands.
If this is the configuration for the base M4, I'm intrigued by what their plans might be for the M4 Pro. They might move back to it being a cutdown M4 Max die where the M3 Pro as its own totally unique die was an experiment. In previous rumors, Gurman only mentions a Brava die for mobile (in addition to Donan) saying Hidra is for the "desktop". It'd be a slight pity if so as I feel the M3 Pro die gave Apple more design flexibility, but Apple may not want to build more than 3 unique dies this generation. Also if the base M4 starts at 16GB, then what will the base M4 Pro start at? surely not still 18GB? 24GB would be the next logical step.
Eventually one would assume the base 13" Air too whenever it gets released, no?
That is typically when the Macs launch, so early November seems likely.
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I thought:
Donan = M4 Pro
Brava = M4 Max
Hidra = M4 Ultra/Extreme
Or is Donan supposed to be the M4? Gurman made those comments on April 11, and he said that Apple was nearing production. Since the M4 iPad Pro was released in May (thus would have already been in production), perhaps he wasn’t including the M4.
Why not USB-C for power and data? It wasn’t great for laptops due to connector wear and tear, but it should be perfect for a stationary device.
Ah, thanks. I guess the Pro will be a binned/trimmed Max, then. That actually sounds pretty sensible to me, considering that some people were upset about the reduced memory bandwidth of the M3 Pro, and having two M3 Max dies was a little odd.
I’m not sure what you mean by 2 M3 Max dies? They just had one - the 14/30 variant is a binned 16/40, but it’s the same die. That’s the same for M1/M2 Maxes too - the only difference was that the M1/M2 Pro was a “chopped” die (which also could be binned) of the respective Max.
But for the M3, they came out with three unique dies: base M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max with one binned variants for all 3.
They have different ApChipIDs, which is indicative of different dies (though perhaps it’s due to the memory configuration). I’m eager to see a die shot of the 14/30, but I haven’t been able to find any. I posted about it a while ago here.
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If I had to guess it’s the memory configuration, but I agree that’s odd - it should be the same die. Then again Apple occasionally does weird stuff like the 2 port and 4 port iMac which have different IDs*. So maybe there’s something I’m missing but from the specifications it looks like a simple bin?
*I get for the iMac it’s to have a low “starting at” price but then upsell people and wanted features but it seems like an odd way to do it and expensive to boot since it’s a different body they have to make.
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thenewperson
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I think it’s the iMac getting the 4+4, since out of those 3 Macs only the iMac has a binned base M chip.
NotEntirelyConfused
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I don't see a problem with them having similar or even identical base memory configs. (Though as you say 18GB is the obvious number, not 16GB, assuming 3 memory controllers.) I figure the M4 will support 16/32, maybe also 24, and the M4P will support 18/36/54-and/or-72, while the Max will go up to 256GB or 512GB.
Probably.
Hm, interesting option. I think if you tried to funnel a saturated 10Gbps Ethernet through USB-C you'd find that you can't quite get the last few packets through, as I think USB-C is somewhat less efficient than Ethernet. But I could be wrong, and in any case they might decide that they don't really care- who runs with their Ethernet saturated normally? It's not practical, you'd have too much packet loss in most situations.
Come to think of it - the base M4 has 4x Thunderbolt controllers. That means they have the luxury of using one for non-TB USB ports, and simultaneously transport for an on-brick 10GbE. So... not a bad idea.
Apple has tended to like to separate base models by the second step of the lower end device, eg:
M3: 8GB, 16GB, 24GB
M3 Pro: 18GB, 36GB
M3 Max: 36GB, lots more
That said if they bump the base RAM of the M4 then it’s possible that they would break that pattern if they don’t feel it’s necessary to offer more RAM at the base Pro level chip. But that might affect pricing structure. Offering the M4 Pro 18GB at a higher price than the M4 24GB could be awkward. Of course you would be getting a better processor in the Pro, but Apple generally likes to make everything the same or better in order to pressure the upsell.
Yoused
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Well, there is the conundrum of the M2 Mini vs the M2 Studio
Mini: 12 core / 18 core / 32Gb / 8Tb / 10GE – $4500
Studio: 12 core / 38 core / 96Gb / 4Tb – $4200
It looks a lot like the Studio is just a better deal than the top-end Mini. It has a better array of ports, especially that SD slot on the front. And it is really not very much bigger than the Mini. To me, that extra 4Tb of storage would just not be worth the difference.
Oof. Hence the “generally”
but yes Apple’s storage price increases does sometimes create weird issues like this. Normalizing for storage though and the pattern should hold where the next tier up for like $200 bucks extra has the same or better RAM and more cores.Edit: another factor to consider about the M4 Pro is if it goes back to being chop of the Max die it might go back to M2 Pro style memory controllers and bandwidth.
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Jimmyjames
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OT but guess who’s back at the other place.
I'll bite: who?
