Mr Trump Refuses To Commit To A Peaceful Transfer Of Power If Defeated

[lizkat]

Let’s face it, even if Trump gets irrefutably crushed in the election, it will still somehow be a win for his supporters as proof to them that the deep state exists. He’ll be a martyr to them regardless. That’s how they roll. Part of me wants Trump’s diehard supporters to be punished by being thrown even deeper into the marginalized and forgotten self-defined world’s biggest victim hole they emerged from to put him in office, but I think Trump has already done enough divisive code red damage and we should get to know and listen to each other again and partner over our shared concerns.

And that's what we'll do because we are actual adults.

Assuming we are led by one from the Oval Office for a change starting in 2021.

If Trump manages somehow to eke out an apparent stay of his pink slip, I don't know what will happen. If he's managed to help his party lose control of the Senate by his masquerading as a pretty good copy of a loose cannon, he'll be impeached and probably be removed that time with the help of his own party elders to make it clear it wasn't just a one-party eviction.

But he is not a child, instead, he has power, enablers, facilitators, and the temperament - as you say - of a spoiled and indulged and entitled bully of a child who wrecks havoc when thwarted; the combination of those characteristics and features is toxic for the future well being of the US. And the world.

And apparently with the blessing (possibly weary) of his complict and corrupted party.

I'm sick of him and his ilk indulging the idea of burning American democracy to the ground just because the outcome of fair elections increasingly suggests the GOP has really missed a train leaving the station... the train where they would otherwise modernize their platform. To survive they had to broaden their appeal to women, minorities and people who make tens of thousands of dollars less per year now, each and every year since the income and wealth gap turned into a soon insurmountable abyss for this country to figure out how to bridge and fill in. Somehow at every opportunity to do that, the GOP have made false starts, faltered and then lost ground with the larger electorate.

The Republicans in federal elective offices today don't actually like Trump at the moment... if they ever did, which is unlikely. Most now loathe him, since he has just about run out his marginal utility to the party at a very inconvenient moment. He's losing potential voters rather than pulling them in as he had managed to do during a surge in populism on both sides of the fence in 2016. There's already a 5-4 rebalance to the "conservative side" on the Supreme Court, and the rest of the federal judiciary is stacked with a couple hundred new right leaning appointees as well. The downside risks to the GOP of his making a third pick to SCOTUS now are l certainly beyond accurate calculation. The risk you cannot calculate is the one requires careful consideration. That's not happening. Mitch McConnell threw that out the window whenever he prepared his little death-of-RBG speech delivered so soon after her passing and made it clear a replacement jurist would be nominated forthwith.

So the guys in the trenches in the state Republican committees, facing every more purple-turning electorates, are starting to wonder how much daylight they not only could but possibly should put between this lunatic in the White House and the Congressman or Senator they are tasked to help re-elect.

But meanwhile and inexplicably to a majority of Americans, the Republican national leadership and the elders of the party still in office mostly fall silent or suggest Trump's just joking... even as a US President suggests discarding mailed 2020 ballots and so "not having" a transition if he loses, rather that he will therefore not lose and so there will be a continuance in office, arranged for him by whatever means necessary.

I've seen a lot of wacky stuff get said by presidential candidates from both parties over the year, but I've never heard an American President talk about elections as a hyperpartisan candidate making absolutely no distinction between his job, his campaign, his personal desires and dare I say his delusions of grandeur. It's clear he does not understand how transitions work, and are required to work under our rule of law. He somehow seems to fancy that the US military or the governors's National Guard resources will be summoned to effect his second term or his emperorship or whatever it is he believes he is preparing to embark on in January of 2021. Meanwhile he refers to military veterans who gave or who now risk their lives as "losers and suckers."

What I've never seen is an American president's party leaders and elders still in public office almost all stand by and gawk at such utterances, as the Republicans are doing while Trump rants on. It's impossible now to think the GOP are not complicit in his thinking on continuance in office, whether that thought process is only delusional on Trump's part or actually in their own plans to retain power at any cost, by any means, and figuring Trump can still somehow help them make that happen.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The worse part is that some of us have guns too. Do you think “they” think we don’t?

A talk (of the online variety), I attended recently, given by the FT's "chief US commentator and US national editor & former Washington Bureau chief", Edward Luce, made that very point, stressing that "second amendment liberals" have comprised many of those who have purchased arms in recent months.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Assuming we are led by one from the Oval Office for a change starting in 2021.

If Trump manages somehow to eke out an apparent stay of his pink slip, I don't know what will happen. If he's managed to help his party lose control of the Senate by his masquerading as a pretty good copy of a loose cannon, he'll be impeached and probably be removed that time with the help of his own party elders to make it clear it wasn't just a one-party eviction.




And apparently with the blessing (possibly weary) of his complict and corrupted party.

I'm sick of him and his ilk indulging the idea of burning American democracy to the ground just because the outcome of fair elections increasingly suggests the GOP has really missed a train leaving the station... the train where they would otherwise modernize their platform. To survive they had to broaden their appeal to women, minorities and people who make tens of thousands of dollars less per year now, each and every year since the income and wealth gap turned into a soon insurmountable abyss for this country to figure out how to bridge and fill in. Somehow at every opportunity to do that, the GOP have made false starts, faltered and then lost ground with the larger electorate.

The Republicans in federal elective offices today don't actually like Trump at the moment... if they ever did, which is unlikely. Most now loathe him, since he has just about run out his marginal utility to the party at a very inconvenient moment. He's losing potential voters rather than pulling them in as he had managed to do during a surge in populism on both sides of the fence in 2016. There's already a 5-4 rebalance to the "conservative side" on the Supreme Court, and the rest of the federal judiciary is stacked with a couple hundred new right leaning appointees as well. The downside risks to the GOP of his making a third pick to SCOTUS now are l certainly beyond accurate calculation. The risk you cannot calculate is the one requires careful consideration. That's not happening. Mitch McConnell threw that out the window whenever he prepared his little death-of-RBG speech delivered so soon after her passing and made it clear a replacement jurist would be nominated forthwith.

So the guys in the trenches in the state Republican committees, facing every more purple-turning electorates, are starting to wonder how much daylight they not only could but possibly should put between this lunatic in the White House and the Congressman or Senator they are tasked to help re-elect.

But meanwhile and inexplicably to a majority of Americans, the Republican national leadership and the elders of the party still in office mostly fall silent or suggest Trump's just joking... even as a US President suggests discarding mailed 2020 ballots and so "not having" a transition if he loses, rather that he will therefore not lose and so there will be a continuance in office, arranged for him by whatever means necessary.

I've seen a lot of wacky stuff get said by presidential candidates from both parties over the year, but I've never heard an American President talk about elections as a hyperpartisan candidate making absolutely no distinction between his job, his campaign, his personal desires and dare I say his delusions of grandeur. It's clear he does not understand how transitions work, and are required to work under our rule of law. He somehow seems to fancy that the US military or the governors's National Guard resources will be summoned to effect his second term or his emperorship or whatever it is he believes he is preparing to embark on in January of 2021. Meanwhile he refers to military veterans who gave or who now risk their lives as "losers and suckers."

What I've never seen is an American president's party leaders and elders still in public office almost all stand by and gawk at such utterances, as the Republicans are doing while Trump rants on. It's impossible now to think the GOP are not complicit in his thinking on continuance in office, whether that thought process is only delusional on Trump's part or actually in their own plans to retain power at any cost, by any means, and figuring Trump can still somehow help them make that happen.

Superb post, @lizkat.

Want to read it closely before I respond.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I hope whoever shows Trump the White House door gives him a well televised “Go fuck yourself, you loser.” and then never speak of him again. Let the media and public do with that what they will.

 

[Renzatic]

I’ve wondered what the SS role would be if the manbaby won’t leave. I wouldn’t think they’d gather around the guy who lost the election.

The Secret Service will likely stand aside, doing nothing either pro or con. Ultimately, it'll come down to DC police to do the job, since if he loses, and refuses to vacate the White House by Jan. 21st, he's effectively trespassing.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Ultimately, it'll come down to DC police to do the job

Not if we defund them first and hand it over to mental health services.

Trump exiting the white house in a straight jacket would be so much win. Plus if his supporters do the same in organized protest it will be a lot easier to round them up.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Ultimately, it'll come down to DC police to do the job, since if he loses, and refuses to vacate the White House by Jan. 21st, he's effectively trespassing.

If it comes to that, it will be sweet justice if the police take 45's own advice.


While it may not be the officers cheering, it will be a large part of the country cheering.

 

[lizkat]

Welp.... looks like at least that particular set of remarks by Trump yesterday in a press conference may have been a bridge too far for even some of his own party's leaders or those who pass for elder statesmen... and certainly for their counterparts among Democrats.

McConnell and Pelosi push back on Trump's comments, vow peaceful transfer of power

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally and chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, tells "Fox & Friends," "If Republicans lose we will accept the result."

www.latimes.com

McConnell and other leading Republicans had no hesitation in committing to an orderly transfer if Trump loses.

“The winner of the November 3rd election will be inaugurated on January 20th,” McConnell said in a tweet. “There will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792.”

On the other hand as noted in the piece, the Rs' move to stack the deck at the high court in favor of Trump immediately after RBG's death --in case any "issues" come up before that bench during the election-- makes it clear that remarks like the initial bromides and paeans to our history that were offered up by the likes of of Lindsey Graham are possibly just pro forma, and as subject to revision as were Graham's older remarks about how a court nominee should not be considered near the end of Trump's presidency.

 

[Eric]

I watched a constitutional lawyer on MTP Daily today and he made the point that we're in uncharted territory here because it's really without precedent, people are genuinely unsure how to handle this.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

If it comes to that, it will be sweet justice if the police take 45's own advice.


While it may not be the officers cheering, it will be a large part of the country cheering.

He should get the full Rodney King treatment and the officers should also get acquitted for it being perfectly legal per their training. If we're just going based on behavior it would be reasonable to assume he's high on PCP and should be treated accordingly.

 

[lizkat]

I watched a constitutional lawyer on MTP Daily today and he made the point that we're in uncharted territory here because it's really without precedent, people are genuinely unsure how to handle this.

Unfortunately "some people" at least on social media seem all too sure of how they'll handle it if Trump loses and they don't think he really did. Fortunately social media is still not a good representation of ordinary Americans going about the joys and sorrows of ordinary life. We all have to try to put food on the table. Most of us do that by showing up to work or trying to make the UI or pension or disability money stretch to make ends almost meet. We don't end up in videos waving flags from the back of trucks carrying us and our 2A-guaranteed arms to war with our neighbors.

But... we've been in uncharted territory since at least 2015 when the Republican Party began clearing a path for themselves eventually to be steamrolled by an incompetent piece of work like Donald Trump. You can't tell me they didn't know exactly what he was: a showman up front and a useful and malleable patsy in private. They'd been nosing around him since his much earlier if pretty half-assed campaign on a third party ticket.

At first blush after 2012 elections, the GOP had found it was a slow go trying to attract more suburban women and minorities to their platform, after losing a race with a white male spouting the party line atop the ticket.

But as time went on, while they also found they could not retain caucus cohesion and also tweak their issues platform, the RNC discovered that a guy like Trump with his show-stopping appeals to white supremacists, xenophobes and what the press like to call "the left behinds" ...which sotto voce in the newsrooms of Fox and even the Wall Street Journal also included the self-described victims of "socialism" among the oligarchs and the top tier of earners in the USA... could maybe make up quite a bit of the gap between what support they though they had and what they needed to get across the finish line in 2016.

But the RNC itself was a hard sell at first. They had in mind someone from more the center of that big 2016 array. Bush, Kasich... What some Rs didn't realize after the idea of Trump as a potential candidate resurfaced --as their second thrashing by Obama sank into their consciousness-- was that their intentionally frontloaded primary calendar for 2016 was problematic. It had been arranged so they'd not have a long period of public intraparty arguments, since their caucus was ever more fissured. But as the date approached, it was clear the frontloading was going to coincide with Donald Trump's rise to media stardom as a pseudo-populist politician, not just a rich celebrity and TV personality.

Meanwhile the DNC was trying to ignore lefty populists supporting Sanders, some of whom later elevated Trump as an alternative to Clinton after her nomination.

But when the RNC honchos did glom onto Trump's potential front runnership, at first they were dismayed. I mean look at Donald Trump: he's the complete antithesis of iconic Republicans from different wings of that party, like Barry Goldwater, Jacob Javits, Howard Baker, Richard Lugar.

However, then the Rs of 2016 realized if they could get some of those baying porch dogs whom Trump had suddenly invited into the national dialogue in the summer of 2015 off the porches and into the polling places, they might have a pretty good shot at the White House, leaving their traditional issues platform alone and letting Trump speak in not-even-code about all sorts of things not usually discussed in such coarse terms in American presidential politics.

You can't tell me we weren't in uncharted territory on the very day Trump came down that escalator to announce his candidacy and throw out his opinion that Mexico wasn't sending us their best, no that they were sending criminals and rapists. It's been downhill ever since with this guy.

Yet the RNC still backs him. Go figure. They are without shame or decency.

Will this campaign season finally bring about the time even this weird shadow of the GOP breaks with Trump and his supporters? They are so disparate a bunch of factions now that the party doesn't even present a Republican platform per se: their convention just celebrated the cult of Trump as the essence of a great America.

So can they decide to leave that failing path and try instead to salvage their party? Or will it be just another season in the era of Trump, where they shrug and figure their electoral potential is pretty much gone now, just focus on the court picks, hang onto power at hand elsewhere however it can be done, and hang how it looks to anyone -- including their own traditional voter base. Sure looks to me like they're going for the power grab and to hell with tomorrow.

What the people will do then, at least the ones who actually vote for Republican policies, such as they are remembered to have been, I'm not sure. I don't see them loading up into trucks and toting their ARs off to do battle with lefties no matter who is finally said to be the winner of 2020's presidential election. But then I didn't see 40% of Americans still thinking Trump's doing ok as our president at this point either.

 

[Eric]

Bernie is making a call to action...

From the Independent

Bernie Sanders has warned against Donald Trump’s attempts to undermine the results of the 2020 presidential election and urged Americans to “listen to and take seriously” his threats, including his recent refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

“This is not just an election between Donald Trump and Joe Biden,” the Vermont senator and Democratic runner-up said in remarks on Thursday. “This is an election between Donald Trump and democracy – and democracy must win. ”

The senator said it is “absolutely essential” for Republicans, Democrats and others to combat the president’s threats “to keep faith with the American ideals we hold so dear and with the sacrifices that so many made in order to protect our democracy.”

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Unfortunately "some people" at least on social media seem all too sure of how they'll handle it if Trump loses and they don't think he really did. Fortunately social media is still not a good representation of ordinary Americans going about the joys and sorrows of ordinary life. We all have to try to put food on the table. Most of us do that by showing up to work or trying to make the UI or pension or disability money stretch to make ends almost meet. We don't end up in videos waving flags from the back of trucks carrying us and our 2A-guaranteed arms to war with our neighbors.

But... we've been in uncharted territory since at least 2015 when the Republican Party began clearing a path for themselves eventually to be steamrolled by an incompetent piece of work like Donald Trump. You can't tell me they didn't know exactly what he was: a showman up front and a useful and malleable patsy in private. They'd been nosing around him since his much earlier if pretty half-assed campaign on a third party ticket.

At first blush after 2012 elections, the GOP had found it was a slow go trying to attract more suburban women and minorities to their platform, after losing a race with a white male spouting the party line atop the ticket.

But as time went on, while they also found they could not retain caucus cohesion and also tweak their issues platform, the RNC discovered that a guy like Trump with his show-stopping appeals to white supremacists, xenophobes and what the press like to call "the left behinds" ...which sotto voce in the newsrooms of Fox and even the Wall Street Journal also included the self-described victims of "socialism" among the oligarchs and the top tier of earners in the USA... could maybe make up quite a bit of the gap between what support they though they had and what they needed to get across the finish line in 2016.

But the RNC itself was a hard sell at first. They had in mind someone from more the center of that big 2016 array. Bush, Kasich... What some Rs didn't realize after the idea of Trump as a potential candidate resurfaced --as their second thrashing by Obama sank into their consciousness-- was that their intentionally frontloaded primary calendar for 2016 was problematic. It had been arranged so they'd not have a long period of public intraparty arguments, since their caucus was ever more fissured. But as the date approached, it was clear the frontloading was going to coincide with Donald Trump's rise to media stardom as a pseudo-populist politician, not just a rich celebrity and TV personality.

Meanwhile the DNC was trying to ignore lefty populists supporting Sanders, some of whom later elevated Trump as an alternative to Clinton after her nomination.

But when the RNC honchos did glom onto Trump's potential front runnership, at first they were dismayed. I mean look at Donald Trump: he's the complete antithesis of iconic Republicans from different wings of that party, like Barry Goldwater, Jacob Javits, Howard Baker, Richard Lugar.

However, then the Rs of 2016 realized if they could get some of those baying porch dogs whom Trump had suddenly invited into the national dialogue in the summer of 2015 off the porches and into the polling places, they might have a pretty good shot at the White House, leaving their traditional issues platform alone and letting Trump speak in not-even-code about all sorts of things not usually discussed in such coarse terms in American presidential politics.

You can't tell me we weren't in uncharted territory on the very day Trump came down that escalator to announce his candidacy and throw out his opinion that Mexico wasn't sending us their best, no that they were sending criminals and rapists. It's been downhill ever since with this guy.

Yet the RNC still backs him. Go figure. They are without shame or decency.

Will this campaign season finally bring about the time even this weird shadow of the GOP breaks with Trump and his supporters? They are so disparate a bunch of factions now that the party doesn't even present a Republican platform per se: their convention just celebrated the cult of Trump as the essence of a great America.

So can they decide to leave that failing path and try instead to salvage their party? Or will it be just another season in the era of Trump, where they shrug and figure their electoral potential is pretty much gone now, just focus on the court picks, hang onto power at hand elsewhere however it can be done, and hang how it looks to anyone -- including their own traditional voter base. Sure looks to me like they're going for the power grab and to hell with tomorrow.

What the people will do then, at least the ones who actually vote for Republican policies, such as they are remembered to have been, I'm not sure. I don't see them loading up into trucks and toting their ARs off to do battle with lefties no matter who is finally said to be the winner of 2020's presidential election. But then I didn't see 40% of Americans still thinking Trump's doing ok as our president at this point either.

Are you going to start putting up a paywall to access your posts?

I think it's become obvious that the Republicans have become the party of winning at all costs - tradition, platform, honesty, truth, policy, and values can all go to hell if they appear to be hindering that win.

Democrats, on the other hand, seem to be obsessed with getting a slamdunk and then stacking the cards against themselves to turn it into a defeat. If Trump gets a second term I think a move should be made to give him a third just to see how Democrats even fuck that one up.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Bernie is making a call to action...

From the Independent

This coming from the guy who had the DNC undermine his nomination. Twice. Oh Bernie, how far you have fallen. He’s like the political version of women who stay in abusive relationships often end up dead under a pile of pallets on the side of the freeway. I fully expect the rest of Bernie’s political career to consist of “roadmaps” to policies that never actually get implemented.

 

[lizkat]

Are you going to start putting up a paywall to access your posts?

Hell no. Someone s/b charging me for posts that long. I'll even try to cut back on the coffee in near future, that might help... or else line up more outdoors-chores to keep me offline

 

[fooferdoggie]

Maybe he'll need to be removed by a secret service sniper. That will be something Republicans can't do a 180 on when it works in their favor because he will be dead, but also probably a better President in that state.

if someone shot Trump Washington would be covered in several inches of bullshut.

 

[Renzatic]

if someone shot Trump Washington would be covered in several inches of bullshut.

The last thing anyone should do is risk making a martyr of the guy, even if he is in the midst of doing something wholly illegal.

His base has already circular logic'd their way into an explanation that perfectly benefits Trump, and they will accept nothing else than his victory. They believe him to be the best president this country has ever seen, beloved by Real Americans far and wide, and the ONLY way he could possibly lose is if the Democrats had rigged the election against him, as Trump has for so long now claimed. Errrrgggooo, if he does lose in November, then anything he does from that point on is justifiable, since he represents the actual will of the people, which is actively being subverted.

Of course, Trump himself is doing quite a bit to suppress the election, from threatening to throw out mail-in ballots, to allegedly talking to Republican friendly administrations in Republican run states to install electors that will vote for Trump in the EC.

And the end result of all of this? NO ONE is going to believe the results of the election, and November will be absolute chaos.

 

[Thomas Veil]

And the end result of all of this? NO ONE is going to believe the results of the election, and November will be absolute chaos.

The difference is that if Trump loses, the Trumpers will never accept it. They'll have all kinds of baseless conspiracy theories.

On the other hand if Trump wins after having committed all this sabotage, we'll never know if the win was real. Anything other than a Trump landslide is going to be viewed with suspicion.

 

[lizkat]

The last thing anyone should do is risk making a martyr of the guy, even if he is in the midst of doing something wholly illegal.

His base has already circular logic'd their way into an explanation that perfectly benefits Trump, and they will accept nothing else than his victory. They believe him to be the best president this country has ever seen, beloved by Real Americans far and wide, and the ONLY way he could possibly lose is if the Democrats had rigged the election against him, as Trump has for so long now claimed. Errrrgggooo, if he does lose in November, then anything he does from that point on is justifiable, since he represents the actual will of the people, which is actively being subverted.

Of course, Trump himself is doing quite a bit to suppress the election, from threatening to throw out mail-in ballots, to allegedly talking to Republican friendly administrations in Republican run states to install electors that will vote for Trump in the EC.

And the end result of all of this? NO ONE is going to believe the results of the election, and November will be absolute chaos.

As of today I'd say you could be right. Only thing might change that is if more Republican officials speak up more often and with more conviction and STOP just letting Trump's election integrity attack tweets --and his presser ripostes and rally remarks-- hang out there like rotting deer guts for 12 hours before he gets rebuked.

 

[Eric]

The last thing anyone should do is risk making a martyr of the guy, even if he is in the midst of doing something wholly illegal.

His base has already circular logic'd their way into an explanation that perfectly benefits Trump, and they will accept nothing else than his victory. They believe him to be the best president this country has ever seen, beloved by Real Americans far and wide, and the ONLY way he could possibly lose is if the Democrats had rigged the election against him, as Trump has for so long now claimed. Errrrgggooo, if he does lose in November, then anything he does from that point on is justifiable, since he represents the actual will of the people, which is actively being subverted.

Of course, Trump himself is doing quite a bit to suppress the election, from threatening to throw out mail-in ballots, to allegedly talking to Republican friendly administrations in Republican run states to install electors that will vote for Trump in the EC.

And the end result of all of this? NO ONE is going to believe the results of the election, and November will be absolute chaos.

Frankly, I am not a fan of any sort of discussion around shooting anyone. I agree, we need to vote him out the right way to avoid any martyrdom. We may not agree with him but he did win this thing fairly, if he loses there will be ways to remove him peacefully. Just my .02