Password Manager Talk

[Huntn]

Some of you are aware of this discussion happening over at MR about the bastards at 1Password, a password manager software (Agilbits) who are now jamming subscriptions down their customers throats and abandoning stand alone vaults. Down to the oppressors!

This situation with Agilbits has had me aggravated for a while. Before they broke completely bad, they still offered their no subscription model but hid it away. Now, not only are subscriptions required, the fairly new monetization scheme of some software companies to rent you their software, but they have done away with private vaults I assume as more justification to ask for a subscription. There seems to be a little bit of an uproar, but I have yet to visit the Agilbits forum and check that out for . If they are allowing dissent, I’ll add my 10 cents over there.


Anyway I can still use 1Password 7, however my impression is that now they have dropped private vault support, which I think this means there is no more browser integration. In iOS I think I can still pull up my 1Password app, keep it synced with my vault, and copy paste passwords into my browser as needed, but this represents a downgrade, I no longer want to support 1Password and am looking for a replacement.

This is ideally what I want:

• I want a (simple) stand alone vault option via something like dropbox.
• I want no subscription, although I'd pay $10 per year if I had too.
• I want Mac, iOS, and PC compatibility along with browser extensions

However, this is what I’ll accept:

• For myself, a private vault is top priority, would prefer not to compromise.
• Compromise 1- And I could give up cross platform compatibility, and just stick a Mac program.
• Compromise 2- Browser extensions are a convenience which neither Strongbox or Safeincloud offer. You get spoiled with that feature, does it represent liability? If worse comes to worse I could put up without that feature if I had too.

 

[Alli]

I’m biased, but I’m still using DataVault. You may (or may not) recall that I was their Customer Satisfaction Director for a few years. It offers everything you require. No subscription. The big difference between it and 1Password is that it’s not as “pretty” and doesn’t allow you to upload photos.

 

[Pumbaa]

Before they broke completely bad, they still offered their no subscription model but hid it away.

And they have the audacity to defend the subscription-only model by saying that virtually everyone went with subscriptions.

Well, DUH! I only managed to find the stand-alone license because I knew it existed and still had to go out of my way to find where it could be purchased.

I haven’t figured out yet what I’m going to use in the future. All I know is that I need a secure and convenient password manager. Reading about how other solved the problem and/or their train of thoughts will be helpful.

 

[Huntn]

I’m biased, but I’m still using DataVault. You may (or may not) recall that I was their Customer Satisfaction Director for a few years. It offers everything you require. No subscription. The big difference between it and 1Password is that it’s not as “pretty” and doesn’t allow you to upload photos.

Is it cross platform, does it support private cloud based vaults, or have browser extensions?

 

[Huntn]

And they have the audacity to defend the subscription-only model by saying that virtually everyone went with subscriptions.

Well, DUH! I only managed to find the stand-alone license because I knew it existed and still had to go out of my way to find where it could be purchased.

I haven’t figured out yet what I’m going to use in the future. All I know is that I need a secure and convenient password manager. Reading about how other solved the problem and/or their train of thoughts will be helpful.

My first clue that something was up when I upgraded to iOS and got a message 1Password no longer supports private vaults, However, if I’m not mistaken, with 1PWv7 you can still sync with your cloud based vault and copy paste passwords into your browser. So far there is no clear choice depending on your demands:

• Enpass is close to 1Password, can purchase for $80, but no 2FA.
• Safeincloud is inexpensive, by a 1 person developer in Russia I think, who has been around since 2012, but has no browser support.
• KeePassXC is open source, multi platform, but no cloud storage.
  

Since I’m looking for something new, I’d like to add 2FA (2 factor authentication).

 

[Renzatic]

I use BitWarden these days, which is free for personal use, and fairly slick overall.

Unfortunately, two factor authentication is only for the business/enterprise packages, but I still recommend it.

 

[Roller]

I've been using 1Password since at least version 2 in 2008, when I first registered for their support forum. Until last year, I kept all 600-or-so items in a private vault, keeping my Macs in sync with 1Password's Folder Sync function and syncing my iPhone with the WLAN Server option. In part, I did this because I didn't want to use cloud syncing at work because it felt safer. This all still works in version 7.x. I hadn't seen anything about support for standalone vaults ending until I came across @Huntn's post today.

I did sign up for a family 1Password account earlier this year to let me easily share login and other information with my wife on her iPhone and Mac. To be honest, it's very convenient, and the $5/month price is fine. I also understand why AgileBits moved to subscriptions - they need a revenue stream to fund development and operations, though it's off-putting if you're used to the old model as I was.

If private vault support goes away, I'll have to decide if I want to migrate the work-related logins I can't share with my wife to our family account. Switching to another password manager would be painful.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

A share Alli's view, i.e. DataVault is a simple and effective app.
And they have a wonderful team.

At the moment I have been trying out and using Enpass. Works flawlessly, though there is a small glitch that I don't like. The browser autofill works only if you have started the main app before using the broswer.

My favourite and discontinued app managed the above mentioned feature much better.

 

[Runs For Fun]

I use KeePassXC on my MacBook and on my PC and sync it to my Nextcloud server. But you can sync it with any of the other services. (Dropbox etc..) On my iPhone and iPad I use the app Strongbox which is compatible with the KeePassXC database format and can directly sync to all of the popular services. Definitely worth the one time purchase because I use it all the time

‎Strongbox - Password Manager

‎Strongbox is an application for keeping all your passwords safely stored and protected by one master password. Supporting the open source Password Safe and KeePass formats. *** Features *** - Touch ID & Apple Watch Unlock for the ultimate in convenience, security and speed. - Passkey support...

apps.apple.com

They also have a macOS app but the only reason I don’t currently use it is because there’s no auto fill for Firefox. KeePassXC has a Firefox extension for auto fill

 

[Huntn]

I've been using 1Password since at least version 2 in 2008, when I first registered for their support forum. Until last year, I kept all 600-or-so items in a private vault, keeping my Macs in sync with 1Password's Folder Sync function and syncing my iPhone with the WLAN Server option. In part, I did this because I didn't want to use cloud syncing at work because it felt safer. This all still works in version 7.x. I hadn't seen anything about support for standalone vaults ending until I came across @Huntn's post today.

I did sign up for a family 1Password account earlier this year to let me easily share login and other information with my wife on her iPhone and Mac. To be honest, it's very convenient, and the $5/month price is fine. I also understand why AgileBits moved to subscriptions - they need a revenue stream to fund development and operations, though it's off-putting if you're used to the old model as I was.

If private vault support goes away, I'll have to decide if I want to migrate the work-related logins I can't share with my wife to our family account. Switching to another password manager would be painful.

For myself, I've rebelled against software subscriptions every chance I get. Magazines, sure, I understand as that is a norm, perishable info being distributed. And I have more or less given in to subscriptions for anti-virus because there is a database constantly being updated. And I'm using a relatively low cost Windows maintenance utility that I buy time for yearly. But for passwords, hell no. Just like when I buy photoshop or the equivalent, I'm not renting your software because you want a steady $$ stream, just like I don't lease a car. And this applies especially to a password manager. It's just a basic database and I should not have to rent this from the developer.

That said...as far as switching being painful, maybe yes, maybe no.
The Safeincloud app is available to download free from the Mac App Store. I downloaded for evaluation purposes on my Mac, I exported my 1Password database into a file (easy) with instructions the popped up from Safeincloud.

Then I set up Safeincloud which asked me about which cloud service I wanted to use. I picked dropbox, same as for 1password, it went to dropbox (I signed in also entered my 2FA for dropbox) and it established a vault, then I pointed it at the 1Password export file sitting in my documents folder and viola, all my data was now residing in Safeincloud.

One final step for today I had to turn on the Safari, Safeincloud extensions (Safari>Preferences>extensions) that was automatically installed into Safari, when I installed the application.

Then I went to test it and as 1Password is still on my machine, I turned off it's extension, went to my bank, to the log in page, clicked on the Safeincloud extension logo sitting in Safari's tool bar, and it autofilled my sign in data for the bank. Note before I turned off the 1Password extension, it was kind of competing with Safeincloud, so turning it off made autofill work or work better.

Tomorrow I'll pay the whopping $7 for the iOS app and then see how that works. I'm interested to see how well syncing data works. And of note of late with 1Password, I've had to mess with it to get sync updates to feed to my iOS devices, which used to happen automatically. Now, not so automatically and I'm wondering now that Agilbits has said **** private vaults, if this experience is tied to that.

Oh and Agilbits, I understand, now that your customers are using YOUR VAULT to store our data this definitely deserves a subscription.

 

[Huntn]

I use KeePassXC on my MacBook and on my PC and sync it to my Nextcloud server. But you can sync it with any of the other services. (Dropbox etc..) On my iPhone and iPad I use the app Strongbox which is compatible with the KeePassXC database format and can directly sync to all of the popular services. Definitely worth the one time purchase because I use it all the time

‎Strongbox - Password Manager

‎Strongbox is an application for keeping all your passwords safely stored and protected by one master password. Supporting the open source Password Safe and KeePass formats. *** Features *** - Touch ID & Apple Watch Unlock for the ultimate in convenience, security and speed. - Passkey support...

apps.apple.com

They also have a macOS app but the only reason I don’t currently use it is because there’s no auto fill for Firefox. KeePassXC has a Firefox extension for auto fill

How friendly is KeePassXC to establish a vault on something like dropbox? I just did it with Safeincloud and it was basically a no brainer, the software established the vault after I signed into my dropbox account.

 

[Alli]

Is it cross platform, does it support private cloud based vaults, or have browser extensions?

Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android. Browser extensions, but I believe they still only support iCloud and Dropbox.

 

[Huntn]

Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android. Browser extensions, but I believe they still only support iCloud and Dropbox.

I'll definitely check this out.

 

[Alli]

I'll definitely check this out.

I can probably still get you a Windows key.

 

[Runs For Fun]

How friendly is KeePassXC to establish a vault on something like dropbox? I just did it with Safeincloud and it was basically a no brainer, the software established the vault after I signed into my dropbox account.

Not quite sure what you mean. You just save the database to your sync folder. Whatever service's sync client will take care of the syncing.

 

[Huntn]

I can probably still get you a Windows key.

I’ll let you know. I went thought the steps of setting up Safeincloud, it’s a one man developer from Russia. Mac desktop client is free. I’ll look at DataVault this week.

Not quite sure what you mean. You just save the database to your sync folder. Whatever service's sync client will take care of the syncing.

With two of the password managers I use(used) they produced a list of cloud servives, pick one, and then the setup program goes there, you sign in and it establishes the encrypted vault In your sync folder. I assume this is so it knows where the synch folder is and it has permission to access your service, and you don’t keep a vault on your computer*, although I’m not sure if the program itself keeps all the passwords without actively accessing the vault.

*Now there are some differences between cloud services. I said this because I use the free version of Dropbox. Dropbox actually moves the files off your computer and onto the cloud, so any password manager would have to know how to access it. This is where the vault sits, in the cloud.

Now Google Sync keeps the files on your computer, but copies them to the cloud. So during the setup process, the program would need to know where the vault is and for your iOS devices, the programs there would need to know where the vault is and have permissions to access so they can all stay synched with each other.

In both 1Password, and Safeincloud, and maybe EnPass (I forget) this is how they have established vaults in cloud services.

 

[Runs For Fun]

I’ll let you know. I went thought the steps of setting up Safeincloud, it’s a one man developer from Russia. Mac desktop client is free. I’ll look at DataVault this week.

With two of the password managers I use(used) they produced a list of cloud servives, pick one, and then the setup program goes there, you sign in and it establishes the encrypted vault In your sync folder. I assume this is so it knows where the synch folder is and it has permission to access your service, and you don’t keep a vault on your computer*, although I’m not sure if the program itself keeps all the passwords without actively accessing the vault.

*Now there are some differences between cloud services. I said this because I use the free version of Dropbox. Dropbox actually moves the files off your computer and onto the cloud, so any password manager would have to know how to access it. This is where the vault sits, in the cloud.

Now Google Sync keeps the files on your computer, but copies them to the cloud. So during the setup process, the program would need to know where the vault is and for your iOS devices, the programs there would need to know where the vault is and have permissions to access so they can all stay synched with each other.

In both 1Password, and Safeincloud, and maybe EnPass (I forget) this is how they have established vaults in cloud services.

Ah now I see. KeePassXC cannot do that. You have to rely on a sync client to take care of the syncing part.

 

[Huntn]

Ah now I see. KeePassXC cannot do that. You have to rely on a sync client to take care of the syncing part.

But I’ll assume it is an encrypted file where the passwords are kept. For the setup I describe, when you launch the password manager on your phone, it will check the vault sitting in the cloud for any updates.

 

[Runs For Fun]

But I’ll assume it is an encrypted file where the passwords are kept.

Yes that is correct. It's an encrypted database.

For the setup I describe, when you launch the password manager on your phone, it will check the vault sitting in the cloud for any updates.

Yes most mobile apps that support syncing directly to a service will do that.

 

[Huntn]

I actually purchase Msecure v5 today after reading online that 1)No Subscription, and 2) It had both Mac Safari and Chrome extensions. $19.99 is a great prices (sale price). However after I downloaded it, I could find no Safari extension for MacOS, then I stumbled across this discussion at Msecure: https://support.msecure.com/en/support/discussions/topics/36000017834

Not only no Safari extension (somewhere I swear it said Safari and Chrome browser extensions for Mac ), but they plan on going subscriptionj plan only for Msecure 6, sigh. I've sent them an email asking about this, and if it's not there, requesting a refund (60 day refund policy).


I played around with the free "premium" version of LogMeOnce (logmeonce.com ). Interesting account level categorization considering all of the restrictions. The next notch up is Professional which is a subscription. Anyone using this? I have played around with it a bit. I have a LogMeIn App sitting in my Applications folder, but I interact with it exclusively in my (Safari) Browser. I don't care for that. The browser is where the app interface sits.

I turned on 2FA, but they actually want me to pay to have an SMS code sent to my phone, $.10. Maybe because I'm just at the Premium tier. What concerns me here is that you can turn on 2FA and if you use something like Google Authenticator, when you phone croaks on you for whatever reason, you need an alternative way to connect. So here I tried to turn on SMS texting for the phone, and was advised, I need to put money into the account. Normally with 2FA, the entity providing the service will give you an alternative means of getting in such as getting a text, or a list of emergency codes, which LogMeIn did not provide. So as is, if my phones croaks, I'm locked out of this account as best I can tell.


I've not gotten there, but I think it uses dropbox for synching with other devices.