Pluribus (with spoilers)

[Cmaier]

I can't name a show that I consider to be the runaway "best television show ever made," but I don't think "Pluribus" (the first four episodes, anyway) even crack my Top 100. It's way too slow for a show that asks the audience to completely suspend belief.

I would have said the same thing about the first season of Better Call Saul, but that slow pace turned out to be necessary.

 

[Eric]

I can't name a show that I consider to be the runaway "best television show ever made," but I don't think "Pluribus" (the first four episodes, anyway) even crack my Top 100. It's way too slow for a show that asks the audience to completely suspend belief.

Married with Children.

 

[japanime]

Married with Children.

Interesting choice. Definitely some top-notch writing.

I think "Letterkenny" might have the best comedic writing of any television I've watched. I'd even call it Shakespearean.

 

[DT]

I would have said the same thing about the first season of Better Call Saul, but that slow pace turned out to be necessary.

I don’t actually remember having that reaction to the first season of BCS. I feel like we were into it pretty much right away, with that “ok fine, one more episode” energy that turned into binging a bunch at a time, where we already got to Pluribus feeling like a chore.

I do think BCS and Pluribus work pretty differently, though.

BCS had the advantage of Breaking Bad behind it, so we were already invested in the world and in Jimmy as a character. It didn’t have to win us over from scratch.

And unlike Pluribus, BCS isn’t a mystery-box type of show. Those can be tougher because the whole thing depends on holding back info, and you can’t reveal too much too soon or the story kind of evaporates.

For example, Lost managed that well early on with all the flashbacks and side mysteries, even if it eventually went off the rails (we’ve tried rewatching twice and never made it to the end). Severance has a similar setup, but we were way more hooked on the main mystery from the start, so the slow rollout of answers felt more fun than frustrating.

Just one of those cases where it’s not for us even though the DNA would’ve suggested otherwise

 

[fischersd]

Interesting choice. Definitely some top-notch writing.

I think "Letterkenny" might have the best comedic writing of any television I've watched. I'd even call it Shakespearean.

OMFG NO!!! From one that grew up in Listowel (which Jared Keeso based the show off of) - that's just a horrible, horrible show. And the writing is horribly weak....honestly, he was just taking from 1970's/1980's Listowel....the lives we all lived as kids and teenagers.

It's a rural town. 7 churches....at one point 4 bars....and had a population of 5000 for the longest time. The gossip is horrible....everyone is two-faced (your friends talk about you behind your back when you're not in the immediate vicinity).

Anyone who can....LEAVES.....and avoids it like the plague thereafter....returning only when they absolutely HAVE TO for family obligations.

Ugh!!!

 

[fischersd]

Back on topic - why didn't he transmit oh that frequency to see if he would get a response?

Aside: I still think M.A.S.H. was the best TV show of all time. . Alan Alda is a genius. Horrible to hear how he's diminishing now.

 

[DT]

Aside: I still think M.A.S.H. was the best TV show of all time. . Alan Alda is a genius. Horrible to hear how he's diminishing now.

Agreed. While a lot of my Top N would be more recent shows, M.A.S.H. is certainly in that list. New thread maybe? Not M.A.S.H., but GOAT series, maybe some people will find something new!

 

[japanime]

OMFG NO!!! From one that grew up in Listowel (which Jared Keeso based the show off of) - that's just a horrible, horrible show. And the writing is horribly weak....honestly, he was just taking from 1970's/1980's Listowel....the lives we all lived as kids and teenagers.

It's a rural town. 7 churches....at one point 4 bars....and had a population of 5000 for the longest time. The gossip is horrible....everyone is two-faced (your friends talk about you behind your back when you're not in the immediate vicinity).

Anyone who can....LEAVES.....and avoids it like the plague thereafter....returning only when they absolutely HAVE TO for family obligations.

Ugh!!!

I'm a sucker for alliteration. The cold opens where they recite alliterative words from A to Z, and all of them are tied to a single theme — that's brilliant writing. (King Crimson attempted to the same thing lyrically with the fantastic song "Elephant Talk" — but still only managed to get to the letter E before ending the song.)

But I'm wiling to agree to disagree, because ...

Aside: I still think M.A.S.H. was the best TV show of all time. . Alan Alda is a genius. Horrible to hear how he's diminishing now.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about M*A*S*H. And not just because of the magnificent Alan Alda. That show was blessed with multiple creative geniuses — on both sides of the camera.

In any case, I'm glad that you shared your thoughts about Letterkenny. Thank you for doing so. I can understand why it offend and/or annoy a person who lived in the place upon which the show is based the wrong way. (I will also confess my ignorance – I had no idea the show was based on an actual town.)

 

[Cmaier]

So I take it from Manousos’ speech to the others that he, at least, believes that the hive mind is actually an alien hive mind. Perhaps the radio stuff is some sort of link to the rest of the extraterrestrial hive.

Also, what beautiful cinematography this week.

 

[japanime]

The only thing redeemable about what felt like an eight-hour episode was the use of a Judas Priest track.

 

[Alli]

The guy from Paraguay has the same outlook as Carol. They could be twins.

 

[Eric]

The only thing redeemable about what felt like an eight-hour episode was the use of a Judas Priest track.

This ^. Man this was by far the most painfully slow episode to watch, had to FF through a lot of it and even my wife who is an avid fan could barely hang with it. This did nothing to move the story along and was clearly just filler.

 

[Roller]

This ^. Man this was by far the most painfully slow episode to watch, had to FF through a lot of it and even my wife who is an avid fan could barely hang with it. This did nothing to move the story along and was clearly just filler.

I strongly disagree. The writers were letting us experience what Carol and Manousos were doing and feeling when she was isolated and he was making his way north.

We got to see Carol go from enjoying having her requests granted (like her dinner at the restaurant) to breaking down from the lack of human contact. And we saw Manousos eschew any company or assistance, to the detriment of his health, all in service of his desire to save the world.

In the Pluribus podcast, the actor who plays Manousos said that Carol has all the material things she needs, but is empty, while his character has almost nothing, but is filled with purpose.

I don’t think the contrast between them would have been shown as well had the story moved along more quickly. The pace also made me enjoy the humorous aspects of Carol’s journey more.

I’m looking forward to seeing what happens if and when they eventually connect.

 

[Eric]

I strongly disagree. The writers were letting us experience what Carol and Manousos were doing and feeling when she was isolated and he was making his way north.

We got to see Carol go from enjoying having her requests granted (like her dinner at the restaurant) to breaking down from the lack of human contact. And we saw Manousos eschew any company or assistance, to the detriment of his health, all in service of his desire to save the world.

In the Pluribus podcast, the actor who plays Manousos said that Carol has all the material things she needs, but is empty, while his character has almost nothing, but is filled with purpose.

I don’t think the contrast between them would have been shown as well had the story moved along more quickly. The pace also made me enjoy the humorous aspects of Carol’s journey more.

I’m looking forward to seeing what happens if and when they eventually connect.

Fair enough, I'm sure the really slow pace of this show works for some. They really could've made every point in this entire episode in less than 5 minutes but it was just so drawn out.

I also understand that a lot of people died but the fact that you only ever see any other people is when a cast member needs support is a pretty huge hole, I mean where are all of these people? I know they're staying away from Carol but It's more like an apocalypse movie where the entire earth's population has been wiped out, you should still see some background for their existence. They have a budget so it's an odd choice to me.

Trying to find something good to say about it as well, it's nice to see Carol show an ounce of humanity for a change and the return of Zosia is a breath of fresh air for an otherwise gloomy show, even if it was only for a few seconds at the end.

 

[Roller]

Fair enough, I'm sure the really slow pace of this show works for some. They really could've made every point in this entire episode in less than 5 minutes but it was just so drawn out.

I also understand that a lot of people died but the fact that you only ever see any other people is when a cast member needs support is a pretty huge hole, I mean where are all of these people? I know they're staying away from Carol but It's more like an apocalypse movie where the entire earth's population has been wiped out, you should still see some background for their existence. They have a budget so it's an odd choice to me.

Trying to find something good to say about it as well, it's nice to see Carol show an ounce of humanity for a change and the return of Zosia is a breath of fresh air for an otherwise gloomy show, even if it was only for a few seconds at the end.

 

[Roller]

The Others don’t want any contact with Carol, which is why they departed Albuquerque en masse. I believe they also disappeared when she drove up to Las Vegas.

You could argue that this was just a plot device to get around having to show the hordes, but I think it was done to emphasize Carol’s isolation. There were more people around Manousos during his travels, so it didn’t seem so out of the ordinary. Again, the writers are trying to put us inside their heads, as it were.

Like you, I was glad to see Zosia again. She’s a really fascinating character who seems much less zombie-like than the Others. I suspect that Carol is attracted to her, which should prove interesting. IDK if romantic relationships can even exist with the hive mind.

 

[Cmaier]

The Others also aren’t out and about unless it’s to do something that needs to be done. They apparently aren’t interested in hobbies or in entertainment. They don’t need restaurants and the like. Every individual has the knowledge of all of them, so most service jobs would seem unnecessary. They need to build things that aren’t strictly necessary, they don’t farm or ranch other than picking up fruit that falls off trees.

So the vast majority of jobs would seem to be eliminated. They probably sit around and save calories.

 

[rdrr]

I am wondering how many of the 12 others consented to the procedure to become part of the "Us". Also, was the procedure successful?

 

[Eric]

I am wondering how many of the 12 others consented to the procedure to become part of the "Us". Also, was the procedure successful?

Would be worth the invasive procedure for me, I'm all team Borg in this thing. So what if you've only got 11 years left, look at how happy and unified they are. I mean it's the only true way to have "peace on earth", why is anyone fighting it?

 

[Roller]

Would be worth the invasive procedure for me, I'm all team Borg in this thing. So what if you've only got 11 years left, look at how happy and unified they are. I mean it's the only true way to have "peace on earth", why is anyone fighting it?

I don’t think we know enough about the downsides yet, apart from Carol’s and probably Manousos’ objections about the loss of individuality.

I wonder what that alone would do to human creativity. Although it might seem that a hive mind would be better at problem solving, it might be the opposite. What is it like to be tuned into collective consciousness all the time? Might that suppress the individual insights that have led to remarkable progress throughout history?

I also try to imagine how people react to things they don’t like about others, whether it’s the way they look, their voice, or something else. Superficial for sure, but does that really no longer happen?

Then there are the practical questions. How will they survive without a constant supply of HDP? And will humans be able to do everything needed to keep the world running? For example, what determines who is appointed to do the tough, dangerous jobs?