The Democrat agenda 2022 and going forward

Chew Toy McCoy said:
He’s already said he has no interest in running but I’m going to put this here because we need more of this from the left.

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If Jon were to run I would be out pounding on doors stumping for him, he's passionate and actually cares about real issues, it would be a refreshing change from typical politicians.
 
Here’s an interesting wildcard presidential candidate I heard floated recently, Wisconsin governor Gretchen Whitmer. Can’t say I know a lot about her other than standing up to right ring extremists, but she does have that Midwest thing going for her and AFAIK doesn’t wreak of elite.
 
Seems telling the truth, calling out stupidity and holding people accountable works well for democrats. I say keep that going, shore up support in tight districts. Boots on the ground.

Keep passing popular policy and telling the truth and we will survive this onslaught of stupidity.
 
I wouldn't expect much of the Democrat Congress over the next couple years. I'd expect the Republican Congress to dig themselves deeper in a hole. So enjoy that.

If you're a left leaning voter the next couple years should be about getting involved with local politics and activists groups. Stop looking to Congress to fix everything. Republicans learned that lesson a long time ago and it gave them overturning Roe v Wade while being the minority.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
Here’s an interesting wildcard presidential candidate I heard floated recently, Wisconsin governor Gretchen Whitmer. Can’t say I know a lot about her other than standing up to right ring extremists, but she does have that Midwest thing going for her and AFAIK doesn’t wreak of elite.
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Michigan. And she is the one, or at least her administration, who during the lockdown prevented people from buying certain items in a store they were already in. So you could go to Walmart and buy food, but you couldn't buy seeds to grow your own food.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
Here’s an interesting wildcard presidential candidate I heard floated recently, Wisconsin governor Gretchen Whitmer. Can’t say I know a lot about her other than standing up to right ring extremists, but she does have that Midwest thing going for her and AFAIK doesn’t wreak of elite.
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I think she was Biden's preferred VP candidate before the Summer of George Floyd. She basically took herself out of the running before that due to The Pandemic (and probably due to Mango's threats).
 
Herdfan said:
Michigan. And she is the one, or at least her administration, who during the lockdown prevented people from buying certain items in a store they were already in. So you could go to Walmart and buy food, but you couldn't buy seeds to grow your own food.
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I wanted to research this, so this was the operating parameters of this ban:

Last week, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer ordered all stores larger than 50,000-square feet to cordon off their garden centers and plant nurseries, blocking customers from shopping in those sections through April 30. “If you're not buying food or medicine or other essential items, you should not be going to the store,” Whitmer said when announcing her order.
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I'd assume lots of smaller seed stores still around, like the kind my grandparents used for planting actual food products, or in 202x, direct/online sales. That was on April 16 2020, then on the 24th, she realized this needed to be rethought, and resolved it:

Under a new executive order announced Friday, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer reversed a controversial ban that prevented many stores from selling seeds, plants, and other home gardening supplies. As part of a new effort aimed at “economic re-engagement” amidst the coronavirus, Friday’s order will let plant nursery employees, landscapers, and other workers who “perform lower-risk activities to go back on the job,” provided they abide by “strict social distancing.”
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I don't think that particular incident is any kind of meaningful or lasting negative impact on her performance as Governor.
 
DT said:
I'd assume lots of smaller seed stores still around, like the kind my grandparents used for planting actual food products, or in 202x, direct/online sales. That was on April 16 2020, then on the 24th, she realized this needed to be rethought, and resolved it:
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The fact that anyone ever thought this was a good idea is enough to give me pause.

Plus, she is one of the rules for thee, but not for me crowd.
 
Herdfan said:
Michigan. And she is the one, or at least her administration, who during the lockdown prevented people from buying certain items in a store they were already in. So you could go to Walmart and buy food, but you couldn't buy seeds to grow your own food.
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I don’t really know much about her but she doesn’t exactly come to mind when thinking of top level covid offenders and I don’t know if relitigating that 4 years (or more) later is going to be a winning strategy, from either side. If you go to the extremes of either Newsom or DeSantis you’ll probably find just as many defenders as attackers. Both parties have offered newer material to attack or praise.

Herdfan said:
How about stop looking to Government in general to fix everything.
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Not expecting government to fix everything, but as they are in the pocket of lobbyists and corporate welfare they’re in a position to make things a lot worse if we just ignore the government as being part of the solution. At the very least they can stop fucking with and tipping the scales on the free market and picking winners (always at the top) and losers.
 
lizkat said:
Yeah well on the Richter scale for "rules for thee, not for me" crowd,,,, the GOP and Trump own that one.
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And I will bet that no one will call you out about "whataboutism".

Not picking on you, but just pointing it out.
 
Herdfan said:
And I will bet that no one will call you out about "whataboutism".

Not picking on you, but just pointing it out.
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We had to get through Covid somehow and in the chaos of the early experience, I believe governors and other officials (aside from the chief denier Trump) tried to do what they thought would reduce the death toll and still account for the need to keep food on table, roof overhead, pay bills and deal with the terrible challenges to parents of school age children and their teachers.

Remember we were all starting from zero. Brainstorming, feasibility study, will of the people all had to happen in a matter of weeks once we realized covid-19 was not the Trump-advertised nothingburger.

Whoever was ONLY trying to score political points back then was soon enough called out as a flaming idiot. But there were enough pressing problems and makeshift solutions that people often categorized all those conflicts as political just because that's how polarized we are now. However, supply chain issues were real and fundamentally what they were about was COVID itself, even though it could seem appealing to blame lack of toilet paper on a hated governor... or closed schools on some martinet without a clue.

Anyway it was not unreasonable for governors to be thinking of their own states and constituents when trying to balance need to cut covid off at the pass and still let people get paid for work and manage (somehow) to cope with school or kid-care or elder-care challenges.

We forget now that there was a time when there were no vaccines... and it's always easy to second guess actual players' decisions later on. Whitmer, Cuomo, you name one and someone raked him/her over the coals for doing too much or not doing enough or grandstanding or guessing wrong or just breathing while others were dead and stacking up in reefers behind hospitals.

So we can disagree about which approaches were too strict or unconscionably lax, but my own feeling is that as time goes on, voters move away from the initial covid-related issues of scarcity and best-guess solutions to other pandemic problems, because the immediacy of that early intrusion on our lives is gone. That's assuming we don't end up with a huge re-emergence in combination with the flu this winter.,,,

There is always value in learning from mistakes. I hope this country can someday get back to realizing that talking about them is part of a better solution. We lack appreciation for nuance today thanks to venues like Twitter, not the best for policy debates and analysis of this or that national experience. In the end of course, any national experience, like politics itself, is always local when it comes to what voters think. That's the best reason to learn how to talk with each other instead of dividing into two warring camps.
 
ronntaylor said:
You of all people trying to call someone out for whataboutism. Hilarious! Even for you.
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Actually, it was calling out all of you who call me out for it yet when someone on "your side" does it, crickets.

If you think it is wrong, then you should think it is wrong for anyone to do it. Says more about you than me.
 
You have the gift of hindsight to base one poor decision out of many life-saving decisions. I'm not saying you're wrong about that decision, but in hindsight, what seems more reasonable - taking measures to keep social places and activities to a minimum, or the way Trump handled COVID? And not one instance, many of them... throughout the pandemic he fared poorly.

Hell, let's leave Trump out of it.... Was Whitmer's decision a great idea? No. Do I understand how - in the moment - someone could make that descision? Yes. She also corrected the order.

Something to think about that can't be proven, but considered;

How many seats in congress do you think COVID deaths cost republicans? I mean direct votes - voters who died who could or would have pushed republicans who lost by narrow margins over the edge? Impossible to know, but I would wager there's going to be at least one republican out of a job that may have held on had they not vilified masks, social distancing, Fauci, vaccines, etc.
 
Herdfan said:
Actually, it was calling out all of you who call me out for it yet when someone on "your side" does it, crickets.

If you think it is wrong, then you should think it is wrong for anyone to do it. Says more about you than me.
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Whataboutism is probably half-reflex for a lot of us by now. It's sometimes offered as anecdote but can also be a generalization. The question becomes whether it's always meant as distraction.

I think sometimes it's just meant as a reminder that there are other perspectives or countervailing beliefs. It's really up to any of us individually to decide if those are relevant or distractive in a given situation, or at least that's my opinion. Sometimes when someone offers "yeah but whaddabout..." I can see the point. Other times I am impatient at what feels like an attempt to shift the focus away from a topic or subtopic.

But the bottom line --to me-- is that just offering a "whatabout" doesn't signal a bad faith argument in the making. Heh, maybe the next couple of exchanges after that might shed light on that possibility.
 

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