The Trump Indictment Thread

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An Exit from the GOP’s Labyrinth of Trump Lies — The Atlantic

The special counsel’s indictment offers party leaders their best escape from the loyalty trap yet—if they choose to take it.
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I’ve said this before, but I think our best case scenario is Trump gets scared enough to flee the country, then he’s a fugitive and we’re done.

Think he’s got a ton of secrets to spill to a hostile country like Russia? He doesn’t. His brain holds maybe half a thought at a time, which could only consist of $, his dick, and food.
 
Nycturne said:
I don't think we'd be done at that point. He'd be a useful tool for propaganda aimed at the US.
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Would that be worse than him in jail (not happening) as a martyr or getting off scot free and still hosting white supremacy gatherings at rallies? Those both sound worse to me.
 
Just looked on Twitter and the top trend is "Hunter Biden", just in case anyone was thinking of getting their fair and balanced news from them.

Meanwhile, in the real world this indictment is sacthing and it will be interesting to see how Republicans walk it back.
 
I'm not worried about the judges. This is federal court; Trump can delay at best, but from what I've heard from the career prosecutors, things move fast in Florida. Cannon has already been rebuked by other conservative judges. If she tries funny business again, the DoJ will move fast to overrule her, and other judges will uphold the norms.

All of Trump and his allies' political babble won't help. They have names, witnesses and receipts. He's toast.

Heck, even his allies aren't defending his actions... just calling it "weaponization", but not saying "he did nothing wrong".
 
They have real-time text messages of Trump asking people to move boxes of documents. People have flipped. Even lawyers... its over.

*From the actual indictment... stored next a porcelain throne. This is the same guy who wanted to imprison his opponent for a private email server which had the potential to be a security issue. Meanwhile, this guy is stashing government secrets next to a toilet at his golf club.

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I can't believe the people defending him. I understand the politicians. I presume they're lying to begin with, so their behavior doesn't phase me. It's disappointing, but expected. It's his supporters who actually believe all his crap. It's like setting a murderer free because he told you he's innocent. Normally that's an insane idea no one would get behind. But he tells his followers he's innocent and they believe every last word. And if that's not crazy enough, they think we're the morons because we believe he's guilty. It seems we're stupid sheep who can't think for ourselves when the evidence is plain for all to see. It's as if they're talking about a different 45th president of the United States. I can't wrap my head around it. Which I guess makes sense because their entire world view isn't based on logic and reason. So you can't use logic and reason to unwind it.

I wish I had to power to get away with crimes simply by saying "I'm innocent". I wouldn't use that power because I'm not an ass, but it would be cool regardless.
 
When you go to YouTube and see the things he says about classified materials and Hillary Clinton, it really shows his (and his supporters’) level of cult-like behavior. He literally thinks there’s an entirely different set of criteria for him, and that by virtue of simply who he is, he is incapable of breaking the law.

“Hillary should go to prison for setting up a private email server and putting national security at risk. She’s unqualified to run. Anyone under federal investigation is unfit to serve. However, I - a former president - had every right to have these things, regardless of what they were or why I took them, I can declassify in my mind just by thinking about it. The government is supposed to negotiate with me. I give them back what I want, on my terms, when I want. And I can lie to them, because they won’t go after Hunter Biden. This is a witch hunt, so of course it’s different when I’m the one under federal investigation.”

And there are millions who not only think this clown is innocent, but support him being able to run the country again. It’s absolutely unbelievable.

These charges are beyond serious. He should be looking at decades in prison, not years. That’s not hyperbole. Patreaus was fined $100k and put on probation for two years for simply mentioning things to journalist. Why? Because it’s dangerous. I don’t even know if he physically mishandled info. But he shared sensitive information.. no games played there.

Meanwhile, this childish bozo is going to have witnesses who accuse him of walking around and bragging about his classified docs, like he’s the first one to get the new iPhone or something.

And yet somehow, this was all predictable. Indeed, back in 2016, when people said he’d refuse to leave office or do worse with classified documents than what he accused Hillary of, you’d be derided as having TDS or at best, be told “Oh, he’s just a loudmouth. He’ll settle in the role.”

Nope. And if republicans don’t start calling him out, he will continue to do worse. This guy still has a January 6 federal investigation and a state criminal investigation in Georgia to contend with… how many more laws will he break trying to pretend he’s the victim in those cases?

*If you havent read the indictment, do so. His employees - one of them now indicted - are literally texting each other pictures of these documents.

He is done, no matter what his dumb Congress cultists say.

From the indictment… And keep in mind this was on tape WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE AND APPROVAL.

15 33. On July 21, 2021, when he was no longer president, TRUMP gave an interview in his office at The Bedminster Club to a writer and a publisher in connection with a then-forthcoming book. Two members of TRUMP’s staff also attended the interview, which was recorded with TRUMP’s knowledge and consent. Before the interview, the media had published reports that, at the end of TRUMP’s term as president, a senior military official (the “Senior Military Official”) purportedly feared that TRUMP might order an attack on Country A and that the Senior Military Official advised TRUMP against doing so. 34. Upon greeting the writer, publisher, and his two staff members, TRUMP stated, “Look what I found, this was [the Senior Military Official’s] plan of attack, read it and just show . . . it’s interesting.” Later in the interview, TRUMP engaged in the following exchange: TRUMP: Well, with [the Senior Military Official]—uh, let me see that, I’ll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack [Country A]. Isn’t it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this—this is off the record, but—they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him. WRITER: Wow. TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn’t done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff—pages long, look. STAFFER: Mm. TRUMP: Wait a minute, let’s see here. STAFFER: [Laughter] Yeah. TRUMP: I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. STAFFER: Mm-hm. TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.

16 STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter] TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and— * * * TRUMP: By the way. Isn’t that incredible? STAFFER: Yeah. TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, “he wanted to attack [Country A], and what . . .” STAFFER: You did. TRUMP: This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right? STAFFER: I don’t know, we’ll, we’ll have to see. Yeah, we’ll have to try to— TRUMP: Declassify it. STAFFER: —figure out a—yeah. TRUMP: See as president I could have declassified it. STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter] TRUMP: Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret. STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter] Now we have a problem. TRUMP: Isn’t that interesting? At the time of this exchange, the writer, the publisher, and TRUMP’s two staff members did not have security clearances or any need-to-know any classified information about a plan of attack on Country A.
 
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MEJHarrison said:
I can't believe the people defending him. I understand the politicians. I presume they're lying to begin with, so their behavior doesn't phase me. It's disappointing, but expected. It's his supporters who actually believe all his crap. It's like setting a murderer free because …
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There is an important question of what really ought to qualify for classification. How much should the government even be hiding from us? Some of that stuff, like the super-secrecy the EPA director was insisting on – why? ShitGibbon is a reckless, irresponsible carpetbagger who does no not-ugly thing, which is a probem because his bad behavior makes it that much more difficult to look seriously at the questions surrounding excessive government secrecy, which can only be addressed with independent oversight, a thing that he is clearly not in favor of.
 
MEJHarrison said:
I can't believe the people defending him.
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Yes, hard to believe but not only because of the crimes he is being charged with. It's hard to believe non-politicians defending such a horrible human being. He lies constantly, he cheated on taxes and insurance, he cheated on all three of his wives and paid hush money to a porn star, he enjoyed watching the attack on the Capitol for over three hours before doing anything. He was even fined for misuse of his supposed charity. Add to all that - his record as president was quite poor. He didn't fulfill campaign promises (building the wall and Mexico paying for it, providing "beautiful" health insurance, etc.), he was the first president in decades to leave office with fewer jobs in the nation than when he started and his bragging point - the economy - was in shambles due to his mishandling of the pandemic.

So what is it? I can only conclude that his appeal is to people's basest motivations e.g. racism, fear of the "other" taking what you have, of being left out, of crime, etc.
 
Yoused said:
There is an important question of what really ought to qualify for classification. How much should the government even be hiding from us?
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In general... it's any information if in the hands of an adversary, could harm and cause grave or exceptionally grave damage to the national security of the United States.

Rrealizing 100% perfection doesn't exist in any activity involving humans, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some abuses. But do those abuses rise to the level where the classification system is routinely causing significant damage?
 
Hah!

I just watched trump on the TV news claiming the recent indictments amount to election interference. Election interference? That's rich. Where have I heard that before? Waiting for Fani Willis' announcement.
 
Even if I was writing dramatic fiction based on Trump, I wouldn’t use a quote like this…

TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and— * * *
TRUMP: By the way. Isn’t that incredible?

It’s too obvious, too comical, too stereotypical. You want to believe he’s not really that dumb all the time. That he’s smarter in private, and the oaf-like behavior, the bluster, the tweets is mostly persona. but nope, here he is, showing secret information to a journalist, the same guy who ran his whole campaign on imprisoning someone else for risking the possibility of something like that happening.

You combine his stupidity and need for attention with the fact he loves dictators, thinks he’s impervious to laws he demands others abide by, and the fact he has millions of of the electorate and many in Congress and positions of power who affirm those beliefs, and you have a recipe for self-destruction.

Here, we have yet MORE lawyers and associates being asked by Trump to break the law or indicted. I predict more laws will be broken between now and whatever other indictments go trial.
 
Citysnaps said:
In general... it's any information if in the hands of an adversary, could harm and cause grave or exceptionally grave damage to the national security of the United States.

Rrealizing 100% perfection doesn't exist in any activity involving humans, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some abuses. But do those abuses rise to the level where the classification system is routinely causing significant damage?
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I can think of a couple of examples that I know of. One from the Snowden files (or maybe it was Manning) was some video of a helicopter in Iraq shooting some locals on the most vaporous of cause, which was suppressed because it would make the US look bad. To me, it is just plain wrong to classify material in order to maintain a veneer of respectability.

More recently, there was the actual CFEFWSG example in which he spoke of plans for an invasion of Iran, which was classified at the level of its enclosing folder: even just saying that the document(s) existed was a security breach. It is absurd to imagine that the Pentagon does not have war plans drawn up for every other country on Earth, and probably even some American cities, which indicates that the Iran plans were significantly more serious than boilerplate stuff.

The point is that the government can say something like "this Exxon exploration contract is strategically important, and the breaks Exxon is getting here might be embarrassing to us, so this is Eyes-only," and we wil never find out about it. The classification system is a terrible weak spot for an actual democratic republic.
 
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