Trans in Sports

[Herdfan]

LPGA, USGA add female-at-birth clause for golfers

Players must be assigned female at birth or have transitioned to female before going through male puberty to compete in LPGA tournaments or the eight USGA championships for women under new gender policies published Wednesday.

www.espn.com

Like it or not this is probably going to be the way forward.

 

[fooferdoggie]

really trans rights got pushed a bit far. Sports were some of both, so few athletes competed. but things needed to be more even when they did. the whole bathroom thing who knows? it got to be such a mess. and both sides got stupid on it. but Fox and such made trans into some crazy monster thing where the left wanted to convert everyone to trans. too much pushing for some trans rights and total lies and hate on the right.

 

[Cmaier]

really trans rights got pushed a bit far. Sports were some of both, so few athletes competed. but things needed to be more even when they did. the whole bathroom thing who knows? it got to be such a mess. and both sides got stupid on it. but Fox and such made trans into some crazy monster thing where the left wanted to convert everyone to trans. too much pushing for some trans rights and total lies and hate on the right.

who wants to convert everyone to trans? i’d like to meet that person.

 

[Renzatic]

who wants to convert everyone to trans? i’d like to meet that person.

His name's Billy. Crazy guy. Drives a van.

 

[fooferdoggie]

who wants to convert everyone to trans? i’d like to meet that person.

let's see teachers do you remember Trump saying they will convert your kids? it was more stupid fear-mongering on the right but guess who believed it?

 

[GermanSuplex]

If only people understood nuance (others in general, not here), we could have a serious discussion about this and how to proceed. The right vilifies trans people and the left overreacts anytime someone tries to talk about it as being anti-trans, and the people in the middle who either don’t care or are willing to discuss this are drowned out.

 

[Herdfan]

and the left overreacts anytime someone tries to talk about it as being anti-trans,

And they attack anyone and everyone. They attack Martina Navratilova, who is pretty much the OG lesbian athlete because she doesn’t think biological males should compete against women.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If only people understood nuance (others in general, not here), we could have a serious discussion about this and how to proceed. The right vilifies trans people and the left overreacts anytime someone tries to talk about it as being anti-trans, and the people in the middle who either don’t care or are willing to discuss this are drowned out.

thats it in a nutshell.

 

[rdrr]

And they attack anyone and everyone. They attack Martina Navratilova, who is pretty much the OG lesbian athlete because she doesn’t think biological males should compete against women.

Who are "they"? I don't blame Trans advocates for attacking anyone trying to restrict and push trans folks back into the shadows. They are one of the most, if not the most marginalized and misunderstood minority groups, fighting for the same rights that everyone here and out there take for granted.

I know you have an axe to grind on trans/non-binary, and it personally affects me. You might want to take that into consideration when you constantly bring this up to float your myopic agenda. Or I guess you can continue to be your lack of empathy.

 

[Herdfan]

Who are "they"? I don't blame Trans advocates for attacking anyone trying to restrict and push trans folks back into the shadows. They are one of the most, if not the most marginalized and misunderstood minority groups, fighting for the same rights that everyone here and out there take for granted.

I know you have an axe to grind on trans/non-binary, and it personally affects me. You might want to take that into consideration when you constantly bring this up to float your myopic agenda. Or I guess you can continue to be your lack of empathy.

I only have 2 axes to grind and both are related. I, like the 70+% of the country, don't want biological men playing women's sports. So if you have a problem with me regarding that, then you need to look around because 7/10 people around you feel the same way. Including some on this board. They may not say it as loudly as I do, but they quietly agree. So I wonder which is worse, the enemy you know, or the enemy you thought was your friend.

Second is locker rooms. Not necessarily bathrooms, but locker rooms because they are different. A biological male should not be in a space for women where they are nude. If you disagree, then I challenge you to this. I am more than willing to go into a locker room and strip down, change, chitchat, shower , etc all things that go on in locker rooms, you just have to send your wives and daughters in with me. If you are not willing to send you wife or daughter into that situation, then you are just virtue signalling.

The rest of it I don't care about. I do find it interesting that after the election, AOC removed her pronouns from her congressional bio, Also changed "Representative" to "Congresswoman". Maybe one thing has nothing to do with the other, but would like to know why as a trans supporter she did this.

 

[rdrr]

I only have 2 axes to grind and both are related. I, like the 70+% of the country, don't want biological men playing women's sports. So if you have a problem with me regarding that, then you need to look around because 7/10 people around you feel the same way. Including some on this board. They may not say it as loudly as I do, but they quietly agree. So I wonder which is worse, the enemy you know, or the enemy you thought was your friend.

Second is locker rooms. Not necessarily bathrooms, but locker rooms because they are different. A biological male should not be in a space for women where they are nude. If you disagree, then I challenge you to this. I am more than willing to go into a locker room and strip down, change, chitchat, shower , etc all things that go on in locker rooms, you just have to send your wives and daughters in with me. If you are not willing to send you wife or daughter into that situation, then you are just virtue signalling.

The rest of it I don't care about. I do find it interesting that after the election, AOC removed her pronouns from her congressional bio, Also changed "Representative" to "Congresswoman". Maybe one thing has nothing to do with the other, but would like to know why as a trans supporter she did this.

You have no clue what trans is. I expected some shitty answer from you, but you not only did you achieve that, you surpassed it.

 

[Herdfan]

You have no clue what trans is. I expected some shitty answer from you, but you not only did you achieve that, you surpassed it.

Then enlighten me.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Then enlighten me.

dude it's all out there if you need to be steered to it you really are not interested in it.

 

[Herdfan]

Did you not just post this?

really trans rights got pushed a bit far.

What do you mean by pushed a bit far?

 

[rdrr]

Then enlighten me.

In your mind Transgendered is a man who "claims" they are a woman by wearing a skirt, looking to somehow get around American bathroom norms to sexually assault cisgendered women or to get an natural edge in competitive sports because they cannot compete against cisgendered men. They don't fit into your ideal of what a woman is, and that is the end of it.

That is not what it is. I am not going to define it for you, and there are more than 1 one variation of what a Transgender individual identifies or how far along they are in their journey.

The bottom line is if the right is so set on creating laws that restrict such a small part of the American population, and in the case of Transgender people in sports we are talking about less than 0.02% of the population in America. Then yes you are targeting and marginalizing a tiny minority who have every right to live free and safe as any other individual in this country.

 

[GermanSuplex]

You'll also notice when most people discuss this, they seem to have this presupposition that we're talking about men who transition to women. The broader argument is lost on them, which shows they're not serious. Not directed at anyone in here, just in general.

 

[cbum]

I believe anyone engaging in these types of discussions first needs to educate themselves - the issues are much too complex and multifaceted for glib generalizations. How many people can define the difference between sex and gender? Biological and chromosomal sex etc. etc.?
Anyone who thinks people just "choose" to be trans is delusional and has no clue about the turmoil and mental anguish in these persons and their families past.
Trans people need all the support society can provide, not be ostracized and demeaned - just inform yourself about the suicidality, personal, professional and financial discrimination and disadvantages associated with these issues. We are very far from that ideal (and moving downhill fast).
The bathroom and locker room issues and comparatively trivial, although they seem to dominate most discussions. Simple humanity would mitigate most of these instances.

One area I do not agree with (most) trans advocates is in sports, as long as the sport chooses to keep male and females in separate categories, because this is, IMHO, an unsolvable problem, at least with simple measures.
Given the myriad variations of sex/gender situations, there is no simple way to avoid the statistical physical advantage male puberty provides to any sport where physicality plays a role.
The current guidelines of certain institutions, including the olympics, fail to account for the irreversible changes during puberty, and no length of testosterone blocking will reverse that.
Similarly, the simplistic idea of just checking the karyotype fails because of the many sex chromosomal variants possible, and the androgen insensitivity syndromes producing a female (external) phenotype with XY genotype etc.
The only fair solution would be a separate league, which is not practical given the rarity of these individuals.

BUT - These people deserve our respect and empathy, not hostility.