Why do conservatives hate AOC?

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P_X said:
Sure, under no other president I can name would have the USA flopped like under Trump. What happened is exactly what concerned most of us about his severe personality disorders: he's so addicted to attention, he sacrificed his re-election in exchange for instant gratification. Declaring COVID precautions patriotic would have been a checkmate, because the medical community (including me) would have stood behind him on that because safety over politics.

Now from a global leadership, umm. It really depends on how you define it. China's definitely striving for major global influence through infrastructure loans/contracts. Agree about Russia or the EU. EU has major issues, from Brexit to Orbán.
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Trump and now the Republican party are driven by being contrarians. When ignorant of any situation just declare the opposite of experts and say you know better.
 
P_X said:
Sure, under no other president I can name would have the USA flopped like under Trump. What happened is exactly what concerned most of us about his severe personality disorders: he's so addicted to attention, he sacrificed his re-election in exchange for instant gratification. Declaring COVID precautions patriotic would have been a checkmate, because the medical community (including me) would have stood behind him on that because safety over politics.

Now from a global leadership, umm. It really depends on how you define it. China's definitely striving for major global influence through infrastructure loans/contracts. Agree about Russia or the EU. EU has major issues, from Brexit to Orbán.
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Most disturbing is the support Mr Shithead got from all the little free floating turds who need someone to guide them down the shearing shoot. 😖
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
Trump and now the Republican party are driven by being contrarians. When ignorant of any situation just declare the opposite of experts and say you know better.
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Yeah they've made it a badge of honor. Being rude (in vulgar fashion) is part of the badge, too, and sometimes seems to be part of what separates Trump Republicans from the old line conservatives. A guy like Wm. F. Buckley Jr. could be quite rude without even raising his voice... and his arguments ran to logic at least occasionally premised in facts that both "sides" of American politics used to acknowledge.

But what's going on now is the extreme edge of an undercurrent of anti-intellectualism back in the 1950s, when it was fashionable to attack the likes of Adlai Stevenson as an "ivory tower academic" and more succinctly as an "egghead". And thanks to Trump seizing on a potential enlargement of the traditional GOP base during a highly populist time in 2016, there's a big component of just "owning the liberals" now, and so the contrarianism isn't really policy based at all, it's just knee-jerk "oh yeah? sez who" and fueled by free floating hyper-partisan rage at so much not-winning.

What those Trump admirers wanted back in 2016, they got: a guy who during his campaign flipped a bird at the establishment. Then his incompetence threw his administration into chaotic struggles with the previous Republican establishment's idea of appropriate policy. Trump's contrarians were never about policy, they were fans of the Tea Party style of The Party of NO.

Meanwhile though it was the old GOP's policies that made it through legislation. That and the ongoing discontent of the "f^ck you!" contingent of the party brought in by Trump could only have been a prelude to what the GOP ended up with, which in 2020 was a national convention that avoided fatal divisions over a policy platform and stuck itself instead with a demo of its conversion to a cult of personality.

And there's the ongoing problem, because not all Republicans are authoritarian followers (which is what the so-called populists actually are who ended up the die-hard fans of Donald Trump). He used those followers while in office to get past some of the milestones along a fascist's path to permanent power: weaken the influence of mainstream media, encourage disregard for facts, focus on him as sole arbiter of the way forward. But those are not the ways of the majority of the potential R-leaning electorate. And that is why he's now dwindling away in Florida, embittered and still fantasizing about the re-election victory that eluded him.

Since Biden's not by nature a flaming liberal partisan, it has become harder for Trump's "authoritarian followers" to find something to latch onto as a followup to the barn-burning days, when the lack of actual policy behind their contrarianism was drowned out by all the bird-throwing. They're out there on social media of their choice, waiting for Trump or some other authoritarian to gather them up again. And of course they are thinking about what happened on January 6th. Trump said he'd be right there with him. And of course he was not. And of course some of them are going to the slam for the violence they committed during the insurrection.

Meanwhile out in Iowa, as prelude to 2024, the GOP offers a parade of lackluster Trump has-beens --guys like Pence and Pompeo-- to the evangelical Republicans. They now wonder if it's time to move on, having had to confront what they stooped to in support of a man who was all along the antithesis of their own supposed moral compass. Some of them are still fans, not so much of Trump, rather of his court appointments or tax cuts, and they do think it's time to move on. But what they see are some of Trump's most abject lackeys.

The lack of concerted enthusiasm is palpable, even given that the 2024 nomination itself is far into the future. The opportunity there for a fresh figure to step in is palpable. The question is whether the GOP will advance its exploration of authoritarianism as a way to retain power in the face of a shrinking if very vocal electorate. So far the plethora of vote-suppressive state legislation since 2020 suggests that's likely. After all, the head of the RNC said for the record during winter session after Trump's defeat, "We're not having an election like that again." Doubled down contrarianism.
 
lizkat said:
Yeah they've made it a badge of honor. Being rude (in vulgar fashion) is part of the badge, too, and sometimes seems to be part of what separates Trump Republicans from the old line conservatives. A guy like Wm. F. Buckley Jr. could be quite rude without even raising his voice... and his arguments ran to logic at least occasionally premised in facts that both "sides" of American politics used to acknowledge.

But what's going on now is the extreme edge of an undercurrent of anti-intellectualism back in the 1950s, when it was fashionable to attack the likes of Adlai Stevenson as an "ivory tower academic" and more succinctly as an "egghead". And thanks to Trump seizing on a potential enlargement of the traditional GOP base during a highly populist time in 2016, there's a big component of just "owning the liberals" now, and so the contrarianism isn't really policy based at all, it's just knee-jerk "oh yeah? sez who" and fueled by free floating hyper-partisan rage at so much not-winning.

What those Trump admirers wanted back in 2016, they got: a guy who during his campaign flipped a bird at the establishment. Then his incompetence threw his administration into chaotic struggles with the previous Republican establishment's idea of appropriate policy. Trump's contrarians were never about policy, they were fans of the Tea Party style of The Party of NO.

Meanwhile though it was the old GOP's policies that made it through legislation. That and the ongoing discontent of the "f^ck you!" contingent of the party brought in by Trump could only have been a prelude to what the GOP ended up with, which in 2020 was a national convention that avoided fatal divisions over a policy platform and stuck itself instead with a demo of its conversion to a cult of personality.

And there's the ongoing problem, because not all Republicans are authoritarian followers (which is what the so-called populists actually are who ended up the die-hard fans of Donald Trump). He used those followers while in office to get past some of the milestones along a fascist's path to permanent power: weaken the influence of mainstream media, encourage disregard for facts, focus on him as sole arbiter of the way forward. But those are not the ways of the majority of the potential R-leaning electorate. And that is why he's now dwindling away in Florida, embittered and still fantasizing about the re-election victory that eluded him.

Since Biden's not by nature a flaming liberal partisan, it has become harder for Trump's "authoritarian followers" to find something to latch onto as a followup to the barn-burning days, when the lack of actual policy behind their contrarianism was drowned out by all the bird-throwing. They're out there on social media of their choice, waiting for Trump or some other authoritarian to gather them up again. And of course they are thinking about what happened on January 6th. Trump said he'd be right there with him. And of course he was not. And of course some of them are going to the slam for the violence they committed during the insurrection.

Meanwhile out in Iowa, as prelude to 2024, the GOP offers a parade of lackluster Trump has-beens --guys like Pence and Pompeo-- to the evangelical Republicans. They now wonder if it's time to move on, having had to confront what they stooped to in support of a man who was all along the antithesis of their own supposed moral compass. Some of them are still fans, not so much of Trump, rather of his court appointments or tax cuts, and they do think it's time to move on. But what they see are some of Trump's most abject lackeys.

The lack of concerted enthusiasm is palpable, even given that the 2024 nomination itself is far into the future. The opportunity there for a fresh figure to step in is palpable. The question is whether the GOP will advance its exploration of authoritarianism as a way to retain power in the face of a shrinking if very vocal electorate. So far the plethora of vote-suppressive state legislation since 2020 suggests that's likely. After all, the head of the RNC said for the record during winter session after Trump's defeat, "We're not having an election like that again." Doubled down contrarianism.
Click to expand...
What Trump did very successfully was to get low propensity voters to the polls when he was on the ballot (don’t forget the polls in 2018 were spot on) Given in 2022 he won’t be on the ballot and isn’t even president anymore I’m not sure those voters will turn out.

Plus the voters the left has been winning are the people likely to turn out in every election and they’ve been losing their irregular voters that should benefit them generally in mid terms going forward as in 2018.
 
Eraserhead said:
What Trump did very successfully was to get low propensity voters to the polls when he was on the ballot (don’t forget the polls in 2018 were spot on) Given in 2022 he won’t be on the ballot and isn’t even president anymore I’m not sure those voters will turn out.

Plus the voters the left has been winning are the people likely to turn out in every election and they’ve been losing their irregular voters that should benefit them generally in mid terms going forward as in 2018.
Click to expand...

It's true that the new voters drawn in by Trump were not focused on congressional races... and a lot of them didn't turn out in 2018, which exacerbated the blue drift seen even in districts that didn't flip from red to blue that year. I'll never forget looking at the map of congressional elections nationwide in the NYT's interactive menu for election results in 2018. A nationwide swathe of little blue arrows indicating direction of change CD by CD.

It's also true that progressive have made a lot of headway in state and local elections since 2016, and they're building towards effectiveness in 2022 race primaries even now.

On the other hand the Rs have singled out a few 2022 Senate races they will focus money on by the truckload. The House races are harder to figure. Trump is problematic for the Rs there, because no one knows how he'll interfere with candidates' district-tuned stump speeches if he shows up and puts on his ever more narcissistic "endorsement" rallies.

But so far Trump still lacks a new rallying home on social media that can lend him a larger megaphone, so for the moment he remains a has-been and the Rs can focus on trying to get big donors to fund their Senate race war chests.

Of course 2022 is probably set to be as anomalous --in its own ways-- for House and Senate outcomes as 2016 was in presidential elections when populism was peaking and the established parties were both rattled by the appearance of anti-establishmentarian candidates. In 2022 there will also be a lot of seeming one-off factors to consider, most of them related to the coronavirus and some probably hard to categorize responses to it.
 
Eraserhead said:
Money isn’t everything. It didn’t win Kentucky or South Carolina for the Democratic Party.
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It might cut the mustard for the GOP in Pennsylvania and Ohio though. I'd like to think not.

It's different, a US Senate race compared to one for a House seat in some really gerrymandered congressional district. It's still all about turnout in the end though, and both those states have some big blue cities in their maps.
 
lizkat said:
It's true that the new voters drawn in by Trump were not focused on congressional races... and a lot of them didn't turn out in 2018, which exacerbated the blue drift seen even in districts that didn't flip from red to blue that year. I'll never forget looking at the map of congressional elections nationwide in the NYT's interactive menu for election results in 2018. A nationwide swathe of little blue arrows indicating direction of change CD by CD.

It's also true that progressive have made a lot of headway in state and local elections since 2016, and they're building towards effectiveness in 2022 race primaries even now.

On the other hand the Rs have singled out a few 2022 Senate races they will focus money on by the truckload. The House races are harder to figure. Trump is problematic for the Rs there, because no one knows how he'll interfere with candidates' district-tuned stump speeches if he shows up and puts on his ever more narcissistic "endorsement" rallies.

But so far Trump still lacks a new rallying home on social media that can lend him a larger megaphone, so for the moment he remains a has-been and the Rs can focus on trying to get big donors to fund their Senate race war chests.

Of course 2022 is probably set to be as anomalous --in its own ways-- for House and Senate outcomes as 2016 was in presidential elections when populism was peaking and the established parties were both rattled by the appearance of anti-establishmentarian candidates. In 2022 there will also be a lot of seeming one-off factors to consider, most of them related to the coronavirus and some probably hard to categorize responses to it.
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Give him a toilet paper cardboard roll to shout in and let him stand on the corner of 5th Avenue trying to solicit suckers, with zero news coverage… :unsure:
 
Huntn said:
Give him a toilet paper cardboard roll to shout in and let him stand on the corner of 5th Avenue trying to solicit suckers, with zero news coverage… :unsure:
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Hah.. but maybe his long touted ability to do anything he wants on Fifth Avenue with a free pass may have expired... :p
 
lizkat said:
Hah.. but maybe his long touted ability to do anything he wants on Fifth Avenue with a free pass may have expired... :p
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Hopefully his appeal is lessening from coast to coast, and although he gets most love from the South I can only hope he is waining there too.
 
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Eraserhead said:
i suspect his voters will stop voting.
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Maybe... which (for now anyway) probably just feeds the kiss-Trump's-ring attitude of potential contenders for the 2024 nomination if and when Trump for whatever reason may decide to remove himself from the arena. The desire is apparently to keep that base as a biddable cohort, energized enough towards Trump to accept his endorsement of some other candidate if he is talked into indicating a preference later on.

It's too bad though for the party (and the whole country) in the meantime. All this treading water and maintenance on social media of what becomes more fictional every day, the idea that Trump remains the nominal head of a thoroughly fractured Republican Party. They're making a mistake at top of the RNC letting this happen. It's not just the stock market doesn't like uncertainty. These days, it's also the GOP's 50 state chairs plus every campaign manager of a wannabe House representative on that side of the aisle.

So long as Trump is capable of wading into some race and disrupting the focus of a given House member's re-electon campaign (or worse mess up a GOP effort to dislodge a blue Senator), the Rs are throwing shade on their own plans.

Sigh. A lot of people tried to tell the RNC of 2016 that it was going to be past tricky to try to dismount the tiger safely.
 
lizkat said:
Maybe... which (for now anyway) probably just feeds the kiss-Trump's-ring attitude of potential contenders for the 2024 nomination if and when Trump for whatever reason may decide to remove himself from the arena. The desire is apparently to keep that base as a biddable cohort, energized enough towards Trump to accept his endorsement of some other candidate if he is talked into indicating a preference later on.

It's too bad though for the party (and the whole country) in the meantime. All this treading water and maintenance on social media of what becomes more fictional every day, the idea that Trump remains the nominal head of a thoroughly fractured Republican Party. They're making a mistake at top of the RNC letting this happen. It's not just the stock market doesn't like uncertainty. These days, it's also the GOP's 50 state chairs plus every campaign manager of a wannabe House representative on that side of the aisle.

So long as Trump is capable of wading into some race and disrupting the focus of a given House member's re-electon campaign (or worse mess up a GOP effort to dislodge a blue Senator), the Rs are throwing shade on their own plans.

Sigh. A lot of people tried to tell the RNC of 2016 that it was going to be past tricky to try to dismount the tiger safely.
Click to expand...
Yeah but that didn’t even work in 2018 for the GOP when he was president
 
You would think this was pretty obvious by now, with workers in some places working mandatory 12 hour shifts all week, to airlines over reaction to letting too many people go.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1417515082863554561/

We already had a fragile system that let companies portray themselves as wildly successful because of the stock market, who were the first to ask for a handout before the American people because of the pandemic. We needed meat packing plant workers to keep working during a Covid outbreaks, and the previous administration rubber stamping & using their power to keep them going even at the expense of the workers.

Annnnnnnddd... then there's...


https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1417539221326336002/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1417589112421462021/
 
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JayMysteri0 said:
You would think this was pretty obvious by now, with workers in some places working mandatory 12 hour shifts all week, to airlines over reaction to letting too many people go.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1417515082863554561/

We already had a fragile system that let companies portray themselves as wildly successful because of the stock market, who were the first to ask for a handout before the American people because of the pandemic. We needed meat packing plant workers to keep working during a Covid outbreaks, and the previous administration rubber stamping & using their power to keep them going even at the expense of the workers.

Annnnnnnddd... then there's...


https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1417539221326336002/
Click to expand...
I have been boycotting Amazon for years.
 

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