Alec Baldwin did what?

[SuperMatt]

While I agree with most of this, you are presupposing that the person who pulled the trigger was aware of the prior issues. He denies it. The facts will come out one way or the other. The weapons master on the other hand, needed to be aware.

Read the first rule again. Everybody on set is to treat the weapon as if it’s loaded with real bullets at all times.

Now, in Baldwin’s defense, I am reading that perhaps he didn’t pull the trigger.

The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

You’ve never worked in the theater, I’m guessing. The rules on weapons handling are verbally reinforced on every single show, and you usually have to listen to it from the props manager AND the stage manager. And these rules are even when the gun is a plastic toy… because YOU NEVER KNOW. That’s the whole f-ing point here. If he treated the gun like it was loaded, this might not have happened. Hence, treating the gun like it’s loaded is the VERY FIRST RULE. Ok?

 

[ronntaylor]

They ignored warnings of prior negligent discharges.

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.

www.latimes.com

People quit their job over this extremely unsafe environment before this woman was killed. This wasn’t just an accident. If you’re on a set with multiple complaints of firearm safety issues and you still point a supposedly unloaded gun at a person and pull the trigger…. You aren’t innocent.

Nope. There was an armorer with responsibility to ensure weapon safety. The 1st AD and/or prop master is usually tasked with working with the armorer to ensure safety as well. The 1AD was the one that yelled out "Cold gun!" after getting it from the armorer's set-up and handing it to Baldwin. The director and DP apparently were framing a scene and thought the gun was "cold" as well, so they apparently had Baldwin test firing during the rehearsal. Everyone involved would not put themselves in danger unnecessarily. If they were aware of the "alleged" prior complaints, the Director and DP would not have put themselves in danger.

 

[SuperMatt]

Nope. There was an armorer with responsibility to ensure weapon safety. The 1st AD and/or prop master is usually tasked with working with the armorer to ensure safety as well. The 1AD was the one that yelled out "Cold gun!" after getting it from the armorer's set-up and handing it to Baldwin. The director and DP apparently were framing a scene and thought the gun was "cold" as well, so they apparently had Baldwin test firing during the rehearsal. Everyone involved would not put themselves in danger unnecessarily. If they were aware of the "alleged" prior complaints, the Director and DP would not have put themselves in danger.

The fact they didn’t know about the complaints is atrociously bad management. Bad management to the point of a death due to negligence. If you’ve got a multi-million-dollar actor playing with guns, you should be paying SPECIAL attention to any complaint involving firearms.

 

[Cmaier]

Read the first rule again. Everybody on set is to treat the weapon as if it’s loaded with real bullets at all times.

Now, in Baldwin’s defense, I am reading that perhaps he didn’t pull the trigger.


You’ve never worked in the theater, I’m guessing. The rules on weapons handling are verbally reinforced on every single show, and you usually have to listen to it from the props manager AND the stage manager. And these rules are even when the gun is a plastic toy… because YOU NEVER KNOW. That’s the whole f-ing point here. If he treated the gun like it was loaded, this might not have happened. Hence, treating the gun like it’s loaded is the VERY FIRST RULE. Ok?

The issue is that the person that is supposed to be doing the verbal reinforcement may not have, because apparently she didn’t know how to do her job. You can’t expect someone to follow the rules if he didn’t know the rules.

 

[Cmaier]

The fact they didn’t know about the complaints is atrociously bad management. Bad management to the point of a death due to negligence. If you’ve got a multi-million-dollar actor playing with guns, you should be paying SPECIAL attention to any complaint involving firearms.

Yep. But you seem to be conflating everyone. Baldwin was not management. He was a producer, true, but that didn’t mean he was managing anything.

 

[SuperMatt]

The issue is that the person that is supposed to be doing the verbal reinforcement may not have, because apparently she didn’t know how to do her job. You can’t expect someone to follow the rules if he didn’t know the rules.

Are you telling me this is Alec Baldwin’s first movie with a gun in it?

 

[User.191]

It'll be interesting if Baldwin is held accountable in his role as Producer qua actor.

 

[SuperMatt]

Yep. But you seem to be conflating everyone. Baldwin was not management. He was a producer, true, but that didn’t mean he was managing anything.

Must be nice to be producer when it comes to cashing the checks, but claim ignorance when somebody dies on your movie.

 

[Cmaier]

Are you telling me this is Alec Baldwin’s first movie with a gun in it?

As I noted before, I don’t know how often he’s handled a gun in a movie, or the last time that happened. Hunt for Red October comes to mind, but that was a very long time ago.

 

[Cmaier]

Must be nice to be producer when it comes to cashing the checks, but claim ignorance when somebody dies on your movie.

I’m sure that is nice. And is exactly what the role of many producers is. If they actually have a role, many times the role is a creative one. That’s also why there are many levels of producers - executive, line, etc.

 

[ronntaylor]

The fact they didn’t know about the complaints is atrociously bad management. Bad management to the point of a death due to negligence. If you’ve got a multi-million-dollar actor playing with guns, you should be paying SPECIAL attention to any complaint involving firearms.

I'm not saying they didn't know. I'm stating that knowing about the issues they would not have put themselves in danger unnecessarily. They had every reason to believe that protocols and two responsible parties (the licensed armorer and First AD) did their job properly when a "cold gun" was given to Baldwin. I couldn't read the L.A. Times article because of the paywall, but I haven't read elsewhere that there were official complaints and no one has come forth publicly RE firearm issues.

The armorer was likely too green (according to her own words prior to this movie shoot) and will have to explain her abject failure.

 

[ronntaylor]

I’m sure that is nice. And is exactly what the role of many producers is. If they actually have a role, many times the role is a creative one. That’s also why there are many levels of producers - executive, line, etc.

He apparently co-wrote the screenplay and is not an executive producer. So not managing the project per se, just creative input as you stated. Often the "producer" credit is all about the financial payout later on. Especially if the actor-producer is paid minimally for the acting.

 

[shadow puppet]

Must be nice to be producer when it comes to cashing the checks, but claim ignorance when somebody dies on your movie.

I’m sure that is nice. And is exactly what the role of many producers is. If they actually have a role, many times the role is a creative one. That’s also why there are many levels of producers - executive, line, etc.

@Cmaier is correct. Films have many "producers". Some are mostly name only (ie: the celebrity producer) just getting a producer credit for their IMDB listing. It's more the line producer and production manager that deal with the day to day budget/paycheck decisions or who gets a hotel room or not. They are in charge of the budget for the project and keeping it under budget.

This is being shared throughout the industry:

I have a feeling IATSE is going to have a field day with this. A statement from IATSE local 44 about the prop master not being in the union:

"Local 44 described the event as “an accidental weapons discharge” where “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor,” and adds that “no union members from Local 44 were listed on the call sheet.” Local 44 added that the props, set decoration, special effects, and construction departments were all staffed by local nonunion crew members based in New Mexico."

The entire situation is heinous. This all could have been avoided if the right crew had been hired.

 

[SuperMatt]

I'm not saying they didn't know. I'm stating that knowing about the issues they would not have put themselves in danger unnecessarily.

People put themselves in danger unnecessarily all the time. Just look at the Florida man thread if you need proof.

 

[ronntaylor]

People put themselves in danger unnecessarily all the time. Just look at the Florida man thread if you need proof.

IMO, Baldwin is least at fault/blameless as the armorer didn't do her job correctly. The 1st AD called out "cold gun" and the Director (and DP?) should have made sure that any safety issues were taken care of before the rehearsal.

This is especially true as it appears he never pulled the trigger and simply pulled the gun from his holster. For a second time after the first instance with no issues.

 

[SuperMatt]

IMO, Baldwin is least at fault/blameless as the armorer didn't do her job correctly. The 1st AD called out "cold gun" and the Director (and DP?) should have made sure that any safety issues were taken care of before the rehearsal.

This is especially true as it appears he never pulled the trigger and simply pulled the gun from his holster. For a second time after the first instance with no issues.

He does seem to be the least culpable… but the person actually holding the weapon in the end has the greatest responsibility. The armorer and/or assistant director failed, but more care from the actor could have still prevented the tragedy.

 

[SuperMatt]

Here’s a pretty good article about gun safety on movie sets.

Striving for Authenticity, Films Often Use Real Guns on Set (Published 2021)

Safety protocols for firearms on set are well established and straight forward, and injuries of any kind are rare.

www.nytimes.com

(paywall removed)

 

[Herdfan]

They ignored warnings of prior negligent discharges.

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.

www.latimes.com

People quit their job over this extremely unsafe environment before this woman was killed. This wasn’t just an accident. If you’re on a set with multiple complaints of firearm safety issues and you still point a supposedly unloaded gun at a person and pull the trigger…. You aren’t innocent.

Do you think he pointed it at her on purpose, or in a general direction and she just happened to be in the way?

I don't think he pointed it at "her", but was following the Director and she just happened to be in that direction.

 

[GermanSuplex]

No, Eric. He figured out how to commit the perfect murder. Makes much more sense.

Carlin already figured that out, it’s beating a man to death with another man.

 

[ronntaylor]

The 24-year-old head armorer of Alec Baldwin's movie 'Rust' told a podcast she almost didn't take her last job because she wasn't sure if she was ready

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, 24, told a podcast she almost turned down the head-armorer job in a recent project because of self-doubt about her experience.

news.yahoo.com

Apparently there had been two other incidents where a gun was accidentally discharged on the set, so it sounds like the weapons master was not doing a good job.

Armorer on Baldwin Set Called 'Inexperienced and Green'

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed reportedly raised alarms on last film set with Nic Cage

www.newser.com

Looks like the Line Producer and the Production Manager cared more about saving money and using inexperienced staff members prone to mistakes.

In a recent podcast interview, the 24-year-old conveyed some self-doubt she was feeling recently on the set of Nic Cage's The Old Way--her first as head armorer, the staffer in charge of prop firearms and gun safety on set. "I was really nervous about it at first," she said on Voices of the West, per USA Today. "I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready but doing it, it went really smoothly."

Per the Daily Beast, not everyone on set agrees with Gutierrez-Reed's summation. A source told the outlet she gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress without checking it properly, after which filming was briefly stopped. The source called Gutierrez-Reed "a bit careless" and said she loaded blanks into guns in ways others considered unsafe. That criticism would follow her to Rust, where a Daily Beast source called her "inexperienced and green” and where reports have emerged that there were misfires on set before last week's tragedy.