Apple Vision Pro…. Anybody buying?

[somerandomusername]

The AVP hasn't and won't do it at mass scale either

They have a manufacturing capacity of 100k units per year (or less) due to display supply constraints.

?? I don’t even know where you got that number from. The bottleneck is the displays and the number I have generally seen is 1 million, which would be 500K, which is mass scale but not ultra mass scale like iPhone obviously

And yeah it would not surprise me if apple was even taking a loss on AVP headsets. They probably aren't, but if they had to I think they might to get the market started. That R&D and software development isn't free, even if the BOM is reasonably easily calculated (or at least close to).

the number of sensors, displays and quality of such are way out there.

I was just saying this to myself. But yeah, I think the most Apple would realistically be willing to do would be breaking even. And I swear I saw a report detailing that they were but I can’t find it.

 

[throAU]

That’s incorrect and I don’t even know where you got that number from. The bottleneck is the displays and the number I have generally seen is 1 million, which would be 500K, which is mass scale.

Pretty sure I heard Sony could supply max of 200k displays from Macbreak weekly pod but that was a few months ago.


Either way, we aren't talking iPhone or iPad levels or even MacBook of production here, nowhere even close.

 

[somerandomusername]

Pretty sure I heard Sony could supply max of 200k displays from Macbreak weekly pod but that was a few months ago.


Either way, we aren't talking iPhone or iPad levels or even MacBook of production here, nowhere even close.

Yeah I just put this in my post I was editing and adding stuff right before you replied to what I originally posted, so I didn’t see what you replied until i posted this. I edit my comments a lot for various reasons so if you or anyone else quotes me and it’s different it’s not trickery lol

Ive heard a lot of numbers, and all of them could be wrong as well. But generally I’ve heard 1-1.5 million / 2 so 500-750k for a year, which is still mass scale compared to luxury/limited runs of specialized products, which is what mass is comparing against. Not like they can only produce 10,000 in a year. Apple doesn’t do luxury/special production runs for an entire category. It also doesn’t account for the fact that this is new and Apple will get better at making them, so it might be 500-750 K for the first year but will increase to millions.

 

[Nycturne]

I find office/ipad to be fairly functional, but not being able to modify graph properties in excel constantly bites me. I use word/ipad often to review drafts of docs and make edits, but I couldn’t use it to create a document from scratch (at least not without bringing it back to a pc/mac to do a lot of formatting work). Would be nice if, someday, MS brought more feature parity to these other platforms.

Oh I know. There’s a number of mundane reasons why it is how it is today, which I don’t think I can get into (or is really on topic).

 

[Roller]

I’ll probably buy one at some point, but I need to see how the app ecosystem looks, and maybe try one out at the Apple Store.

I have to bring my car in for what may be expensive repairs tomorrow, and that was the final deciding factor

Did you end up ordering one? (An AVP, not a new car.) I'm going to try to schedule time to try an AVP at an Apple Store, though I don't know how close to the best possible experience I'll get with reading lenses.

 

[Cmaier]

Did you end up ordering one? (An AVP, not a new car.) I'm going to try to schedule time to try an AVP at an Apple Store, though I don't know how close to the best possible experience I'll get with reading lenses.

Not yet, I’m monitoring my car repairs in the app, and I see that the cost for “concern 1” dropped from $1600 estimate down to $550 (so that’s good!). But still no estimate for the bigger problem (the drivetrain) - I’ve seen in the tesla forums where that can cost anywhere from $500 to $7500, depending on what caused the light to come on. Once I know what that costs, I will either order AVP or not.

 

[Citysnaps]

It sure is tempting.

 

[ArgoDuck]

I don’t know…I just thank y’all should strongly resist temptation…

Which will improve my chances of getting one once Apple release them down here in Australia/New Zealand

 

[Cmaier]

Attaching ZEISS Optical Inserts to Apple Vision Pro requires pairing

Apple has partnered with ZEISS to provide corrective lenses made specifically for Vision Pro, and customers can buy these optical...

9to5mac.com

What?!?

 

[Clix Pix]

Why is that disturbing? Makes perfect sense to me.....

 

[Cmaier]

Why is that disturbing? Makes perfect sense to me.....

It does? Why? A lens is just a piece of glass. I can see why the glasses might need to know it’s there (to calibrate, etc.) but I don’t understand why it would have to be paired.

 

[somerandomusername]

Attaching ZEISS Optical Inserts to Apple Vision Pro requires pairing

Apple has partnered with ZEISS to provide corrective lenses made specifically for Vision Pro, and customers can buy these optical...

9to5mac.com

What?!?

It needs to be paired because the eye tracking system can be messed up if there are additional lenses that change the path of light. According to what Sterling Crispin said, the device flashes patterns of IR light on your eyes to help Gaze function, and then the IR cameras inside the device capture how your eye moves and responds to the light in order to enable Gaze. I’m presuming the code communicates to the device not only that you’re inserting lenses, but what the prescription is and to adjust accordingly. It’s an ease of use thing, where you don’t need to adjust settings or anything, like when you set up Apple Watch and it has a spinning complex geometry pattern to pair the device easier than manually doing it. Is there some kind of issue or are you just surprised?

 

[somerandomusername]

I am asking genuinely because if there’s some kind of concern maybe i have some information from the stuff I’ve read that might be helpful. Like are you concerned about only being able to pair one lens for a user or how to unpair it?

 

[rdrr]

I am asking genuinely because if there’s some kind of concern maybe i have some information from the stuff I’ve read that might be helpful. Like are you concerned about only being able to pair one lens for a user or how to unpair it?

One thing that catches my eye on this (no pun intended). If it has to be paired, it must be sharing that information to apple, and any information about my medical conditions, would fall under HIPAA. I generally don't have a problem with my prescription being out there, but I'd like to understand how that data is being used. Other people may care more than I do.

 

[Cmaier]

One thing that catches my eye on this (no pun intended). If it has to be paired, it must be sharing that information to apple,

That doesn’t follow. I’m sure it doesn’t go beyond the device, itself. Keep in mind that you are already sharing your prescription information (though I think directly with Zeiss?) in order to get the lenses in the first place. And you do have to tell Apple that you have a prescription, and a few general things about it, in order to get through the order process.

 

[rdrr]

That doesn’t follow. I’m sure it doesn’t go beyond the device, itself. Keep in mind that you are already sharing your prescription information (though I think directly with Zeiss?) in order to get the lenses in the first place. And you do have to tell Apple that you have a prescription, and a few general things about it, in order to get through the order process.

My guess (based on no first hand knowledge), is that the pairing information helps the device attune to your prescription. And there is always that option to send the device data to apple to help "improve" the code and development of the device. At least that is an opt'd in.

Taking a few leaps I am just assuming that the data would have some information about the prescription (that you already willing shared) to purchase the device. Again I am not concerned personally, but I do personally know a few people who are a little more concerned about giving away any PII or Medical information.

 

[Clix Pix]

The thing is, with a prescription for eyeglasses (or contact lenses) it is going to be pretty much relevant and unique only to the person for whom the prescription is written. It's not as though someone would benefit from stealing the prescription and then attempting to use it for their own purposes; it's not a prescription for drugs. It's not a prescription for a substance which someone could then either use himself/herself or attempt to sell on the streets....

 

[somerandomusername]

It does? Why? A lens is just a piece of glass. I can see why the glasses might need to know it’s there (to calibrate, etc.) but I don’t understand why it would have to be paired.

Hi @Cmaier again, I wanted to give you the information that I just read that’s relevant to this! This is from John Gruber’s review:

The Zeiss lens inserts for Vision Pro come with a QR-like code on a card. When you’re setting up Vision Pro, if you use lens inserts, there’s a point where you scan that code by looking at it. This pairing lets Vision Pro know exactly what your lens prescription is, and it adjusts its eye-tracking accordingly. The review unit package Apple sent to me included the correct lens inserts, but the incorrect code card for those lenses. This mistake was specific to my review unit, and, Apple told me, will not be a problem for customers. Apple emailed me to inform me of the mistake, and included the correct code to scan. But I spent the first two days of testing with lens inserts that weren’t correctly calibrated. Everything looked fine visually (because the lenses were correct for my prescription) but eye-tracking was off. Not unusable, but certainly less accurate than what I’d experienced in my numerous hands-on demos in the preceding months. And, the day before Apple notified me of the mistake and sent me the correct code for my lenses, after a few hours using Vision Pro, I developed a nasty headache and, eventually, a wee bit of nausea.

After recalibrating with the correct code for my lenses, I had even longer sessions of continuous use, with no headache or discomfort, and absolutely no nausea. I include this anecdote here only as evidence that calibrating Vision Pro for your specific vision is seemingly essential.

 

[Roller]

Hi @Cmaier again, I wanted to give you the information that I just read that’s relevant to this! This is from John Gruber’s review:

I just read John Gruber's review. Although I often find his writing annoying, this was a thoughtful look at the AVP's hits and misses. I wasn't surprised by any of his pronouncements, and I appreciated the detail and reasoning. In short, the AVP shines most as a device for viewing images and videos, albeit in isolation.

Aside from some obvious limitations (cost, size, weight, battery life, and so on), its weakest feature seems to be the personas it uses during video conferences and calls. Based on Gruber's description and from what I've seen online, that seems accurate: the digital avatars are "off" and appear creepy to others. Personas are still in beta, but I'd be surprised if they improve much. I wonder if Apple should let AVP owners use a webcam to show participants an actual video of themselves, goggles and all. At least the face would be real.

I agree with Gruber's conclusion that the AVP isn't yet a mass-market device, but rather a first-generation product that will be succeeded by versions that will be much more usable and affordable. He likens the AVP to the first Mac and iPhone. I had both, and I think that at launch they were closer to what they eventually became than the AVP is now, in part because the technological advances that will be needed are greater. I certainly don't expect the AVP to be updated at anything like the cadence we get for Macs, iPads, and iPhones.

Still, I'm intrigued. Enough to buy one? Maybe, but I haven't yet tried one in an Apple Store, and I don't know if the basic lenses will be enough to let me get something close to the full experience. I also don't know what availability will be like in a couple months, or whether I'll be able to muster the courage or foolishness to shell out $4k.

 

[tomO2013]

Starting this thread I had zero interest in buying the AVP purely to the cost reasons aforementioned. Also I have a meta quest 3.
However I watched a number of techtuber channels yesterday and now I’m seriously considering.

I’m genuinely amazed that Apple appears to have nailed the ability to lock a window in space on the first attempt.

It’s all the little details too with respect to the facetime calls - I actually think the personas are scarily good when you factor in that the M2 sips juice and is not running the latest M3 ray tracing hardware.
I can only imagine just how good those avatars will look with the M3 generation chip and ray tracing support being applied to character models.