COVID Stupid

mac_in_tosh said:
In perusing this thread, there appears to be blanket scorn directed at all the non-vaccinated, but they fall into at least four categories.

First, due to pre-existing conditions related to potential side effects of the vaccines, some people face increased risk with vaccination. They are not necessarily against the vaccines in principle.

Second, some people have concerns about the development of the vaccines and are in the difficult position of having to weigh the risk of Covid vs. the risk of potential issues down the road from these new technologies.

Third, some people have an inherent distrust of big pharma based on the industry's history and/or previous adverse reactions to their products. They also could be facing personal struggle trying to decide what to do.

Fourth, there are the conspiracy theory, rigged-election anti-vaxxers who probably also scoff at wearing masks and social distancing. They deserve scorn and those careless behavior choices no doubt account for some percentage of the rising cases among the unvaccinated.

None of this is meant to dissuade anyone from taking the vaccine. I simply want to point out that getting the vaccine is not a simple thing to do for some people and the non-vaccinated are not one homogenous group of horrible people. Many in the first three groups are behaving responsibly - they may not have much contact with other people (retired, working remotely, etc.) and wear masks and social distance even when guidelines relax these practices.
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If there is a medical reason not to do so, then no scorn. That scorn is reserved for conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, I don’t wanna or I believe the Head Liar, in other words stupid. The human race just can’t afford stupid these days and we may just be doomed because of them. :(
 
mac_in_tosh said:
In perusing this thread, there appears to be blanket scorn directed at all the non-vaccinated, but they fall into at least four categories.

First, due to pre-existing conditions related to potential side effects of the vaccines, some people face increased risk with vaccination. They are not necessarily against the vaccines in principle.

Second, some people have concerns about the development of the vaccines and are in the difficult position of having to weigh the risk of Covid vs. the risk of potential issues down the road from these new technologies.

Third, some people have an inherent distrust of big pharma based on the industry's history and/or previous adverse reactions to their products. They also could be facing personal struggle trying to decide what to do.

Fourth, there are the conspiracy theory, rigged-election anti-vaxxers who probably also scoff at wearing masks and social distancing. They deserve scorn and those careless behavior choices no doubt account for some percentage of the rising cases among the unvaccinated.

None of this is meant to dissuade anyone from taking the vaccine. I simply want to point out that getting the vaccine is not a simple thing to do for some people and the non-vaccinated are not one homogenous group of horrible people. Many in the first three groups are behaving responsibly - they may not have much contact with other people (retired, working remotely, etc.) and wear masks and social distance even when guidelines relax these practices.
Click to expand...
I have no issue with people that fall into the first group. They can't get the vaccine because of a legitimate medical condition or they're too young. That's fine. Those people seem to be pretty responsible and cautious.

My patience with the wait and see crowd is rapidly approaching 0 at this point. They've had plenty of time to wait and see. If literally millions of people are getting the vaccine with extremely few adverse reactions isn't enough to satisfy them, nothing is going to. Add to that that mRNA isn't a new technology. It has been around for years. Wait and see is very poor excuse right now.

As for the last two groups, fuck these idiots. They are the reason we are seeing increased cases and the rampant spread of misinformation and whacko conspiracy theories.
 
Runs For Fun said:
I have no issue with people that fall into the first group. They can't get the vaccine because of a legitimate medical condition or they're too young. That's fine. Those people seem to be pretty responsible and cautious.

My patience with the wait and see crowd is rapidly approaching 0 at this point. They've had plenty of time to wait and see. If literally millions of people are getting the vaccine with extremely few adverse reactions isn't enough to satisfy them, nothing is going to. Add to that that mRNA isn't a new technology. It has been around for years. Wait and see is very poor excuse right now.

As for the last two groups, fuck these idiots. They are the reason we are seeing increased cases and the rampant spread of misinformation and whacko conspiracy theories.
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Because of the way they make it, they say you are better protected from all strains than the immunity built by just getting sick from it.
 
mac_in_tosh said:
Can you expand on that - when and how has it been used?
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Look up: mRNA technology has been around for a decade.

www.myrecordjournal.com

COVID-19 vaccines built on proven technology

COVID-19 vaccines built on proven technology- The vaccines now used to stop the spread of COVID-19 were the quickest developed in recent history, causing some people to hesitate before getting vaccinated.But the mRNA vaccine technology used in the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna vaccines...
www.myrecordjournal.com www.myrecordjournal.com
 
mac_in_tosh said:
Can you expand on that - when and how has it been used?
Click to expand...
Maybe below is better way to phrase this, from the CDC. We've know it's an effective delivery system for decades.

www.cdc.gov

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

mRNA Vaccines Are New, But Not Unknown​

Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. Interest has grown in these vaccines because they can be developed in a laboratory using readily available materials. This means the process can be standardized and scaled up, making vaccine development faster than traditional methods of making vaccines.

mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). As soon as the necessary information about the virus that causes COVID-19 was available, scientists began designing the mRNA instructions for cells to build the unique spike protein into an mRNA vaccine.

Future mRNA vaccine technology may allow for one vaccine to provide protection for multiple diseases, thus decreasing the number of shots needed for protection against common vaccine-preventable diseases.

Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells.
 
According to this interview done by The Atlantic, the anti-vaxxers are very vocal, but do not represent the majority of those who aren’t vaccinated yet.
Anti-vaxxers are incredibly vocal, and because of that, they’ve been a disproportionate focus of our vaccine outreach. But I think that they represent a small part of people in this country, and especially in our communities of color, an irrelevant part. In our work, we haven’t given much credence to their bluster. But the rampant disinformation that’s put out by this minority has shaped our public discourse, and has led to this collective vitriol toward the “unvaccinated” as if they are predominantly a group of anti-vaxxers. The people we’re really trying to move are not.
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www.theatlantic.com

America Is Getting Unvaccinated People All Wrong

They’re not all anti-vaxxers, and treating them as such is making things worse.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
Eric said:
Maybe below is better way to phrase this, from the CDC. We've know it's an effective delivery system for decades.

www.cdc.gov

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...
And yet the very first sentence in the referenced article from the CDC is:
  • mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases.
 
mac_in_tosh said:
And yet the very first sentence in the referenced article from the CDC is:
  • mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases.
Click to expand...
Maybe that is part of the challenge. People seldom read beyond the first sentence, or the first sentence scares them so they don’t read further (or is it farther?). But I also think people associate “new” with bad, especially when it comes to tech (new Windows or Mac OS for example) - oh noez it broked! But a “new” vaccine isn’t new in that sense - it’s been in development for decades.

Let’s look at this from the opposite perspective: People are perfectly happy taking vaccines invented many decades ago, despite the fact that we know far more about medicine now than we did then.

At this point, the facts speak for themselves. Over 100 million people vaccinated... they are not dying in the streets. And over 99% of people dying of COVID now are un-vaccinated. That should be all people need to know. But we know it’s not that simple. I pray that people can accept the vaccine despite the lies from the right, and maybe those liars now changing their tunes might help... to some extent.
 
mac_in_tosh said:
And yet the very first sentence in the referenced article from the CDC is:
  • mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases.
Click to expand...
Whose been in the making for decades. Additionally, there have been 3.85 billion (yes that's a b) given to date, so if the angle is "gee, we just don't know enough about it yet" that would be pretty naive.

www.bloomberg.com

More Than 12.7 Billion Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 184 countries and 59 US states and territories
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
 
Eric said:
Whose been in the making for decades. Additionally, there have been 3.85 billion (yes that's a b) given to date, so if the angle is "gee, we just don't know enough about it yet" that would be pretty naive.

www.bloomberg.com

More Than 12.7 Billion Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 184 countries and 59 US states and territories
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to suggest that mRNA vaccines aren't safe, but 1.5B of those 3.85B shots, are in mainland China... which is not using mRNA vaccines.

A good chunk of the developing world is also using vaccines from China or Russia (also not mRNA) and another (not necessarily distinct) chunk is using AstraZeneca - also not mRNA.

Have a lot of mRNA vaccines been given? Yep.
Would I personally take one? Yep - I've even paid to get one.
Does that mean everyone is getting mRNA vaccines? Nope.
 
Stephen.R said:
I'm not trying to suggest that mRNA vaccines aren't safe, but 1.5B of those 3.85B shots, are in mainland China... which is not using mRNA vaccines.

A good chunk of the developing world is also using vaccines from China or Russia (also not mRNA) and another (not necessarily distinct) chunk is using AstraZeneca - also not mRNA.

Have a lot of mRNA vaccines been given? Yep.
Would I personally take one? Yep - I've even paid to get one.
Does that mean everyone is getting mRNA vaccines? Nope.
Click to expand...
So what‘s the critique?
 
Huntn said:
So what‘s the critique?
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It seems to me the crux of their argument from some is that it's too new, therefore sowing distrust. This is a dangerous ideology that can push those on the fence in the wrong direction while hospitals are filling up again and it's something we'll absolutely not allow here at TA in any way. So to those wanting to question it, let's be careful here.
 
Huntn said:
So what‘s the critique?
Click to expand...
I'm simply saying that quoting total COVID vaccination numbers when referring specifically to mRNA vaccinations is, wrong.


I don't agree with the claims that mRNA is unsafe, I'm just saying it's wrong to say 3.85B people have received mRNA shot(s).
 
SuperMatt said:
The “COVID Stupid” thread seems to be the best place for a story on Marjorie Taylor-Greene talking about COVID.

boingboing.net

Marjorie Taylor Greene now calling vax requirements "segregation"

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Q-GA) has moved on from comparing Covid protection requirements to the Holocaust. Now she is comparing it to segregation. In a Sunday night tweet, the conspiracy…
boingboing.net boingboing.net

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1419489724985643008/
Click to expand...
These guys love the free market, until they actually exercise their freedom.
 
Stephen.R said:
I'm simply saying that quoting total COVID vaccination numbers when referring specifically to mRNA vaccinations is, wrong.


I don't agree with the claims that mRNA is unsafe, I'm just saying it's wrong to say 3.85B people have received mRNA shot(s).
Click to expand...
I’m good with that. And my impression is that you support the idea of everyone being vaccinated?
 

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