FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

I suspect some of those documents would have enormous value to other countries. And with that, monetary value. Wouldn't be shocked if trump believed that somehow those documents were his property (just because he was prez at one time) and could be sold to countries interested in them sometime in the future.

Why else would he hold onto them? He's not a student of history. The other possibility is they might contain embarrassing information.
 
Reminds me of the Republican Congressman who said the Jan. 6 rioters were just normal tourists.
i never thought I’d witness the self destruction of this major political party. Could this be symptomatic of the destruction of the USA as a coherent nation?

This is today’s End Justifies The Means Republikans, the Party of Amateur Liars. The benefit of being an amateur, is that when your base is full of STUPID, the bar for competency is really low. Just about anything they pull out of their asses is swallowed without question while marveling about the sweet aroma. :unsure:
 
I suspect some of those documents would have enormous value to other countries. And with that, monetary value. Wouldn't be shocked if trump believed that somehow those documents were his property (just because he was prez at one time) and could be sold to countries interested in them sometime in the future.

Why else would he hold onto them? He's not a student of history. The other possibility is they might contain embarrassing information.

What I don't get is how he managed to export entire sets of documents with highest levels of sensitivity. It's not like they could have been left lying around in desk drawers. Security must have been involved in their removal somehow. Surely that angle is being pursued in the course of DoJ's investigation.
 
What I don't get is how he managed to export entire sets of documents with highest levels of sensitivity. It's not like they could have been left lying around in desk drawers. Security must have been involved in their removal somehow. Surely that angle is being pursued in the course of DoJ's investigation.

Yeah, that's puzzling. My guess is the documents were checked out to him. And he "never got around to returning them."

I believe I read the National Archive has been asking for them back for awhile. Rules are for other people, apparently.
 
Yeah, that's puzzling. My guess is the documents were checked out to him. And he "never got around to returning them."

I believe I read the National Archive has been asking for them back for awhile. Rules are for other people, apparently.

I feel [reasonably enough!] short on facts about the workings of how some supersensitive documents are released for review by a president even while in the oval office.

Can a prez just say something like "get me everything we know about Pakistan's nukes and the backstory of our past agreements to help secure their stuff against rogues, I want it all on my desk by 2pm.' Are there copies left behind in case he spills ketchup or a latte on them?

EDIT: seems absurd, doesn't it? After all you hit nail on head with this remark:

He's not a student of history.
 
In jest? Right...

In my world that would be called a lie.
The problem with that is a jest requires a sense of humor, something they all lack entirely. If they say something, take it on face value.
I believe I read the National Archive has been asking for them back for awhile. Rules are for other people, apparently.
From what I understand they’ve made the request at least twice. Both times TFG returned a few things…but not everything.
 
Regardless of whether Trump had an unadulterated right to declassify the documents, that doesn’t give him the right to defy a subpoena for the documents afterwards. Again, he didn’t have a right to just declassify virtually everything just by snapping his fingers. But even if he did, you can’t defy a subpoena. This isn’t a congressional subpoena, this was a federal subpoena issued by the justice department.

Even if Trump doesn’t face serious consequences for this - and I believe he will - don’t be gaslit by the conservatives. If this goes to court, Trump is going to lose, and lose big. It’s not merely the fact he took this stuff home, it’s also how he defied the legal subpoena for months. His loud mouth and flailing on Truth Social and in the media is also blowing up his potential defenses, and his lawyer is doing herself no favors by giving interviews to Fox News.

And this is all assuming there’s nothing incriminating WITHIN those documents, or other laws weren’t broken we don’t yet know about. Who helped Trump get these documents home? Again, they don’t just sit around on the Oval Office desk. Who failed to keep them secure? Who was the informant?

This is bad for Trump AT BEST.
 
What makes anyone think he hasn’t already shared or SOLD some of those documents?

Depending on what the specific material is, selling it or otherwise trying to leverage it to his personal advantage could be very risky when the data transfer becomes more widely known. No deal, no secret shared with anyone is invulnerable to wider revelation.

But risk apparently means nothing to Trump. He rolls the dice and figures lawyers can fix any problems.

So far he's been right on the latter score. But, withholding sensitive material that he should not have exported from the White House and that is subject to handling rules ASIDE from those just related to classification is a whole other ballgame. If some of that material relates to nuclear secrets then it would seem that he's really in a lot of trouble.
 
But risk apparently means nothing to Trump. He rolls the dice and figures lawyers can fix any problems.

And apparently without a care in the world and not losing a bit of sleep. Must be nice (not really).
 
And apparently without a care in the world and not losing a bit of sleep. Must be nice (not really).

Lot of denial and massive compartmentalization going on in his head, I guess. And probably some prescribed drugs. But his preoccupations so often overwhelm him: those rambling rally speeches and the campaign-era "responses" to questions during editorial board interviews with mainstream media, wow.

His obsessions are myriad. From all casual memoirs revealed to us so far, he drove his staffers nuts when they were trying to get him to focus on the tasks then at hand, on any day when he'd already been triggered somehow into pulling some pet peeve out of his treasure box.

He must be pure hell to manage as a legal client. All they can do though is take the money and try to remember how not to get disbarred in the process of resisting his Pied Piper ways of taking just about anyone down rabbit holes they couldn't have imagined half an hour prior to sitting down with him.
 
Regardless of whether Trump had an unadulterated right to declassify the documents, that doesn’t give him the right to defy a subpoena for the documents afterwards. Again, he didn’t have a right to just declassify virtually everything just by snapping his fingers. But even if he did, you can’t defy a subpoena. This isn’t a congressional subpoena, this was a federal subpoena issued by the justice department.
he can't just snap his fingers to do it. there is a process and the documents would be stamped saying they are de classified. I love the whoops the GOP are jumping through to justify this when they went apeshit about HC's emails its amazing really.
 
I still think there is wayyyy to much speculation going on on both sides of the isle, though based on the charges and some unofficial information (classified nuclear documents) this is looking more serious than just the government trying to retrieve some documents. The warranted and seizure list really doesn’t say much. What we really need to see is the FBI affidavit stating the evidence justifying the search warrant.

First, if the documents were indeed declassified that would presumably blow this whole case up as the warrant application would have relevant omitted information. That said, Trump can’t just declare declassification like Michael Scott (and Alex Jones) declaring bankruptcy. There is a process that must occur. This could surely become a mess if Trump defense claims this is just all one big clerical error.

That said, if the reporting about Trump being in possession of classified nuclear information is correct… that would be very hard to justify and raises the question why such documents would be declassified or removed and would be highly incriminating. So I am a little skeptical to the accuracy of this reporting- are they technical documents or strategy related or is it something else classified that mentions unclassified nuclear info. I guess we’ll see… or maybe never.

Another concern that could potentially feed into the Trump prosecution narrative is just how open ended the search warrant was. It’s my understanding they could basically search anywhere Trump and his team operated and could seize any government documents from his time in office. This will surely feed into the fishing expedition talking point.

I could care less about the connection with lawyer representing Epstein employees, now judge/magistrate that signed off on the warrant- who btw despite internet myth was not appointed by Trump and that’s not even how that works. I do think it doesn’t look good that he had previously refused himself in another Trump case.

There is also a lot of comparison to the Clinton email scandal. Clinton did have top secret documents on her email server and destroyed allegedly another 30,000 off the server as well as cell phones. Possessing classified data is one thing and running an email server presumably to avoid oversight is one thing, there have been others in the past who have done this and I will say it does not look good. Destroying evidence while you’re being investigated is another thing entirely. So that’s not helping the DOJ here. Though I think it’s fair to make an argument the raid to retrieve evidence was justified based on the so called mistakes made in the Clinton case.

I am all for holding people accountable and equal application of the law. At this time I’m not convinced of some sort of conspiracy in this case. The Trump statements claiming the FBI could have planted documents sounds very desperate to me and raises my suspicions. So does the claims from Trump they did not get a copy of the warrant or seizure list when apparently they did indeed- seems awfully manipulative. But I also think there are some DOJ/FBI decisions here that aren’t exactly helping the DOJ’s appearance of objectivity.

TLDR- I see this as having a high potential of getting very messy, further dividing the country and eroding the country’s faith in institutions more than has already occurred in recent time.

In other news, this Bill Maher clip of what was in Trump’s safe is absolutely hilarious. I find most Trump jokes overused at this point and all to often based on blatant hatred than actual humor, but this is a great exception.


The receipt for Melania and the deed to Rudy Giuliani’s soul had me LOLing.

Most of us will never know the details, nor should we. To the extent the documents themselves or even just the supporting affidavit reveal what the government knows and suggest how that information was obtained, disclosure could cause significant harm. The DOJ is also constrained by the rules around criminal investigations, especially if a Grand Jury is involved.

We are way past the point where "optics" should guide what the DOJ does for fear of riling up Trump's supporters or contributing to erosion of faith in institutions. People like Ricky W. Shiffer, who attacked the FBI office in Cincinnati, won't be appeased or convinced no matter what.

I don't see how Hillary Clinton's email debacle — and I'll readily admit she made some horrible choices — can be rightfully compared to what Trump is alleged to have done, without considering the overall context of their records. Like her or hate her, Clinton was a public servant who wasn't accused of willfully providing sensitive national security information to our adversaries, not to mention the almost endless litany of harmful actions Trump took during his tenure.
 
Lot of denial and massive compartmentalization going on in his head, I guess. And probably some prescribed drugs. But his preoccupations so often overwhelm him: those rambling rally speeches and the campaign-era "responses" to questions during editorial board interviews with mainstream media, wow.

His obsessions are myriad. From all casual memoirs revealed to us so far, he drove his staffers nuts when they were trying to get him to focus on the tasks then at hand, on any day when he'd already been triggered somehow into pulling some pet peeve out of his treasure box.

He must be pure hell to manage as a legal client. All they can do though is take the money and try to remember how not to get disbarred in the process of resisting his Pied Piper ways of taking just about anyone down rabbit holes they couldn't have imagined half an hour prior to sitting down with him.

Look at Rudy… a former big-time federal prosecutor for the SDNY and mayor of the biggest city in America. He knows better. He’s got himself banned from practicing law and now is just as crazy as Trump. Michael Flynn, John Eastman…

These aren’t idiots. They didn’t get to where they are by being stupid; that came after being drawn into Trump’s orbit.

It has to be a combination of gaining power by being close to the president, their ego and belief that white collar crime - at least when perpetrated by them - isn’t criminal. Who knows what goes on in their mind, but it’s way beyond the usual political games of semantics and war of words.

And each time Trump has been given a pass, even for things that aren’t criminal but just deplorable in general - whether it’s his mishandling of COVID and not supporting people like his justice department or impartial figures like Dr. Fauci, refusing to do anything to bring people together but denigrating minorities, unveiling sensitive info to Russians and always praising authoritarian leaders, hiring his unqualified family members as White House advisors, letting scum like Bannon and Miller onto the taxpayer-funded payrolls… why wouldn’t Trump think he can get away with this?

Hell, when Trump turns on Fox News and sees them disparaging the FBI and treating his crimes as if it’s routine presidential business, when he sees Newsmax and OAN exist almost solely as tribute channels to himself, and he sees rank and file conservative members of congress trip over each other to defend his actions and disparage the DoJ before they even know what those actions are, it’s no wonder he continues pushing the boundaries of norms, ethics and laws.

Trump crossed the threshold from celebrity who did a good job hiding his stupidity to narcissist, racist moron sometime during the Obama administration, and by the 2016 primaries it was clear to the rest of the world he was a buffoon who was unfit to serve and would probably commit every bad act under the sun and abuse his office any way he saw fit.

Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham had Trump pegged exactly right when they were running against him, but that was fleeting truth to benefit themselves. Once their opportunity was gone, they quickly fell in line. Mitt Romney tried to warn the party, but even his backbone is brittle at best. Rand Paul and Cruz have shown their libertarian facades were just that - facades. They’re just MAGA cultists masquerading as constitutional conservatives. If Trump wanted to take people’s guns by military force they’d walk back everything they’ve ever said about the second amendment.

All this is to say, we have watched the GOP transform into a cult over the last decade or so. The good thing is, cults almost always self-destruct and become victims of their own making. I fully expect that to happen here.

It’s funny that Trump has done the same things he accuses mobs of doing. And just like mobs in real life, or in the movies, they have a good run, then end with people turning on each other, having a mole in their midst, being raided by the FBI…

What we are witnessing is a political/white collar version of Casino or Goodfellas.

he can't just snap his fingers to do it. there is a process and the documents would be stamped saying they are de classified. I love the whoops the GOP are jumping through to justify this when they went apeshit about HC's emails its amazing really.

Absolutely. I only use the theoreticals to point out that even if you grant Trump some of the arguments he’ll try to make, it doesn’t absolve him. It’s like saying the bank made a huge error and wiped out thousands of dollars in my savings account, when they didn’t, and using the excuse to rob their vault at gunpoint. Even if they made an error, that doesn’t give me the right to rob them. The fact that there is no proof such an error exists makes my robbery that much worse. This is Trump’s case - his ability to declassify certain things doesn’t make it happen by that virtue alone, and even if it did, it doesn’t grant him the right to hide documents and defy federal subpoenas.
 
Last edited:
Trump crossed the threshold from celebrity who did a good job hiding his stupidity to narcissist, racist moron sometime during the Obama administration, and by the 2016 primaries it was clear to the rest of the world he was a buffoon who was unfit to serve and would probably commit every bad act under the sun and abuse his office any way he saw fit.
This. And yet here we are, whole planet still paying a price for allowing this guy's fans to steamroll anything that may remain of the Republican Party's sense of ethics or care for rule of law in the national interest.

It's so far apparently still all about "don't rock the boat with this guy before we can maybe retake the House in November."

Man, my mind doesn't even want to go down the road of imagining how the House Freedom Caucus will behave if the Rs do retake the majority in that chamber in the midterms.

But meanwhile I bumped into this cartoon that just made me laugh out loud. MIke Twohy, back in the September 17, 2012 issue of The New Yorker:

rumors of mitigation - Mike Twohy - The New Yorker 2012 Sep 17.jpg
 
A good analysis of the details of the receipts, and why they support my theory that the “obstruction” law is pretty important and probably has to do with january 6.

 

I wonder if this is the same lawyer who’s been flailing on Fox as much as Trump - the same one who let slip Trump had a better view of the raid from New York than she did, and who admitted on TV she hadn’t discussed with Trump whether he did or didn’t possess documents pertaining to nuclear information.

Both of those statements will come back to bite them on any potential Trump defenses.
 
Back
Top