FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[NT1440]

Sounds like even a convicted felon is still eligible to run so short of him being in jail there won't be anything stopping him. Seems unlikely he would win again but as we've seen he can inflict serious damage if he wants to.

This specific scenario with classified documents actually explicitly prevents a person from holding office in the US, it’s section B of a specific statute (I’d have to find it again).

I’d caution Democrats from convincing themselves that Trump’s support (and therefore chances of winning election) has waned. Trump is merely the vessel people put their discontent into. Trump or not that anger and “fuck you” mentality is growing stronger every day on the right. If it were to be paired with a *competent* fascist like a Tom Cotton, Trumps presidency would look like “the good old days”.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I’m sure the justice department and judges thought of the ramifications before the search.

And I doubt they’re doing this over random info. They’ve been after this material for over a year, and decided the games were over. Part of me thinks he may have been slow to turn stuff over because he knew it was illegal for him to have taken and held onto it.

And there are laws that if broken and convicted of bar you from holding elected office. I can see that happening, though it would infuriate the base.

 

[NT1440]

So what should they do if he broke the law then?

Trump’s entire lifetime of business has been law breaking, mob ties, and labor violations.

Idk what’s special about this other than there being a specific provision in the laws on classified documents that bars the guilty from holding office.

So in a perfect vacuum and functional State, Trump would have been in jail in the 80’s. But we have to stop pretending that this country isn’t the Plutocracy that is clearly is. The wealthy and powerful only see a semblance of justice when they piss of other elites.

So I honestly don’t know what comes of all this.

 

[Citysnaps]

The good news is (my understanding), is that any *other* documents/information/etc FBI agents find in plain sight during their seizure of documents relating to the search warrant, that support *other* criminality, are fair game for seizure and could lead to or support other criminal investigations.

 

[NT1440]

The good news is (my understanding), is that any *other* documents/information/etc FBI agents find in plain sight during their seizure of documents relating to the search warrant, that support *other* criminality, are fair game for seizure and could lead to or support other criminal investigations.

True, I’d love to know the actual logistics of what it looks like in ML.

If anything comes of this, expect some lowly paid administrator or intern to take the fall for “mishandling” boxes in an archive room or something. This won’t be a case of “Trump had a box of papers labeled “classified”” next to his night stand.

 

[GermanSuplex]

The good news is (my understanding), is that any *other* documents/information/etc FBI agents find in plain sight during their seizure of documents relating to the search warrant, that support *other* criminality, are fair game for seizure and could lead to or support other criminal investigations.

Yep, like raiding a house for drugs and finding stolen guns or a dead body.

I doubt the FBI would have risked this for some simple documents that were not of great importance.

The fact Trump and his kids are whining about having “cooperated” leads me to believe they knew they were in the wrong and trying to selectively hand back over documents.

 

[fooferdoggie]

At this point, we see members of the GOP already looking to escalate. McCarthy and some far out there types in Florida in particular. There’s going to be blowback no matter what. These are unprecedented times.

Honestly it’s dammed if you do, damned if you don’t if their base keeps supporting them. Pursue an investigation of wrongdoing, you embolden them. Don’t pursue it, and you embolden them. And that’s the point: make it an impossible choice. At some point you have to just do what the law requires and let the historians sort it out later. At least if you want any hope of maintaining your system of government.

Funny they were fine when trump used the Justice department for his personal crap and his law breaking. that did not bother them at all.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Lie, project, deflect. It’s the only things the GQP are good at. On Fox, you hear the names Hillary Clinton and Hunter Biden as if they got away with literal murder. The rhetoric coming from them last night and today has been mind-blowing, even for them.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

KnowingTrump, there are several possibilities as to the nature of the documents. One is that they are evidence of specific misdeeds while he was in office. Another is that they are something he could benefit from financially. I don't think we can dismiss a third possibility - they have national security information that he was going to give to Russia.

 

[GermanSuplex]

KnowingTrump, there are several possibilities as to the nature of the documents. One is that they are evidence of specific misdeeds while he was in office. Another is that they are something he could benefit from financially. I don't think we can dismiss a third possibility - they have national security information that he was going to give to Russia.

One of Trump’s first acts of dereliction as president was inviting Russians into the Oval Office and giving them highly sensitive info. It’s not a stretch to wonder what he’d do with his commie buddies at his golf club.

 

[Cmaier]

I still don’t 100% believe this is about misappropriated classified documents. Trump world keeps yelling “we demand to see the warrant immediately! Trump should demand it and release it so we can see how corrupt the fbi is!” But trump has the warrant. If he won’t release it it’s because it’s damning and is about more than just documents he took with him.

 

[lizkat]

Back in the late winter, the House committee looking into possible violations of the Presidential Records Act had asked for a detailed list of what already had been recovered and returned to the archivist.

Some of that material was so sensitive that it could not even be described in an unclassified way.

The archivist therefore appended a classified list of that particular material in responding to the inquiry by the House committee. The Washington Post had run a piece about that at the end of February (paywall stripped):

Some records taken by Trump are so sensitive they may not be described in public​

It's possible that some of that already recovered material referred to particular other material still missing, and perhaps that material had even previously been seen by one or two people in the House or Senate.

I can't imagine a scenario where a federal judge would approve this particular search warrant without all the legal requirements having been met. I can't imagine Garland's DoJ even asking for a warrant they thought a judge could reasonably decline to issue. But then everyone's imagination has already been stretched with respect to politics, law and justice over the past five years.

We're not likely to know anything about the warrant's contents unless there are charges brought and the warrant is cited in pretrial briefings or other court proceedings. I also suppose but don't know that parts of a search warrant could refer to information held under court seal.

Would not like to be Trump's lawyers right now trying to keep a lid on their guy since when he opens his mouth about his legal issues he usually complicates their work anyway.

What an infinity of partly occluded mirrors and lenses could be involved here, including matters sensitive in other countries as well. Of course it all feeds conspiracy theories that will be circulating among Trump cultists.

I dislike thinking any part of the DoJ's tactics here have been rushed due to the 90-day window of forbearance on matters that could affect an upcoming election. Of course it crosses the mind.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

In this case I think the term silent majority applies to people who want Trump to just go away. There are plenty of people saying it out loud but I think an even bigger group who aren't saying it because they are scared or maybe they feel they are above saying it and don't want to join the public circus. Trump needs to go away and he did this all to himself for refusing to do so on his own.

There's a good chance a lot of this could have been swept under the rug but Trump is living under the rug and ejecting anything people are trying t hide there.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I don't see how it won't be viewed as political, even when he has his own appointees involved, I'm betting they're being really careful and legal about every step though and in the end we'll be seeing unbiased fact based evidence.


In his mind he sees all of the illegal actions he's taken as justified, he's a sociopath and I have no doubt he not only had them, but bragged about it to his inner circle leading to the feds probably knowing exactly where to find them.

At this point, we see members of the GOP already looking to escalate. McCarthy and some far out there types in Florida in particular. There’s going to be blowback no matter what. These are unprecedented times.

Honestly it’s dammed if you do, damned if you don’t if their base keeps supporting them. Pursue an investigation of wrongdoing, you embolden them. Don’t pursue it, and you embolden them. And that’s the point: make it an impossible choice. At some point you have to just do what the law requires and let the historians sort it out later. At least if you want any hope of maintaining your system of government.

I totally agree, if he’s done criminal acts then he should be prosecuted. That’s my opinion across the board. My point is if they are going to be raiding his house, they better be sure as can be he has what they think he has, that they find them, and that he can be prosecuted. Otherwise this could turn into a disaster.

And if Trump is in illegal possession of documents or possession of incriminating documents that were not retrieved in this raid, you can bet after this they are be gone for good at this point.

Too many times with Trump there have been investigations, the media claims we’re on the verge of shoe being about to drop, and then nothing ends up happening- which delegitimizes future investigations among his base. And it only empowers he base’s sense of being persecuted and he’s already ramping up that talking point.

All that said, given the divide in the Republican Party, there are probably a number of Republicans who might not be disappointed with this, despite parroting claims of unjust persecution.

 

[NT1440]

One of Trump’s first acts of dereliction as president was inviting Russians into the Oval Office and giving them highly sensitive info. It’s not a stretch to wonder what he’d do with his commie buddies at his golf club.

Just to clarify, Russia is a capitalistic country, not communist.

As for Trump, they better make something stick. If not and he wins (which is more likely than people like to convince themselves) in 2024 (I hope he’s dropped dead by then) you’re going to see some drastic housecleaning and vendettas across the board in every government agency.

 

[Eric]

I totally agree, if he’s done criminal acts then he should be prosecuted. That’s my opinion across the board. My point is if they are going to be raiding his house, they better be sure as can be he has what they think he has, that they find them, and that he can be prosecuted. Otherwise this could turn into a disaster.

And if Trump is in illegal possession of documents or possession of incriminating documents that were not retrieved in this raid, you can bet after this they are be gone for good at this point.

Too many times with Trump there have been investigations, the media claims we’re on the verge of shoe being about to drop, and then nothing ends up happening- which delegitimizes future investigations among his base. And it only empowers he base’s sense of being persecuted and he’s already ramping up that talking point.

All that said, given the divide in the Republican Party, there are probably a number of Republicans who might not be disappointed with this, despite parroting claims of unjust persecution.

I think they have way too much to risk by going in unsure of what they're going to find.

 

[NT1440]

I think they have way too much to risk by going in unsure of what they're going to find.

As the saying goes “if you take aim at the King, you better not miss”. If this becomes a big fat nothing burger there is going to be some serious consequences should that idiot regain the “throne”.

 

[Runs For Fun]

What I find interesting is that while the committee has been focusing on Jan 6th, the DOJ has been focusing on possible criminal handling of government material.

This feels to me a little like getting Al Capone for tax evasion. This is something simple, concrete, and easy to describe to potential jury. Did he improperly handle government material and records, or not? It’s not about trying to pin his lackey’s behaviors to him, it’s not about if a call represented quid pro quo. It’s a simpler question with a more clear yes/no answer.

One that some people seem to claim may prevent him from being able to hold public office again if convicted.

If accurate, I could totally see this as a smart play by the DOJ.

Yeah it's about a provision in 18 USC 2071

View attachment 16544

Yeah this is interesting. It would be like catching someone who committed the perfect crime because they were speeding.

 

[Citysnaps]

One of Trump’s first acts of dereliction as president was inviting Russians into the Oval Office and giving them highly sensitive info. It’s not a stretch to wonder what he’d do with his commie buddies at his golf club.

I'm still shocked when Jared Kushner, Mike Flynn, and Russian Ambassador Sergei Kislyak, met at trump Tower to discuss setting up a secret communications channel with Moscow, using Russian communications and cryptographic equipment at a Russian diplomatic facility in the US. This was in December, after the 2016 election and before trump's inauguration in 2017.

The pitch was made to Kislyak so trump could have secret communications with Moscow that would be immune from interception by US intelligence agencies. Seriously.

What's rather comedic, was US intelligence intercepted Kislyak's communication with Moscow detailing the meeting and Kushner's/Flynn's proposal. That's how we found out about it. Go NSA!

That told me (almost) everything I needed to know about trump.

 

[Runs For Fun]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1556777805798686720/