FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[shadow puppet]

The thing about Trump is he takes such great satisfaction, glee even, in dividing and riling up this country as much as possible. He knows exactly which buttons to push to cause as much damage as possible. Some of which I doubt we can ever recover. This I cannot forgive nor ever condone.

 

[GermanSuplex]

There’s a Tweet for everything…

Donald J. Trump​

@realdonaldtrump
The real story that Congress, the FBI and all others should be looking into is the leaking of Classified information. Must find leaker now!

Mar 20th 2017 - 7:02:57 AM EST·Twitter for iPhone


If you go to TrumpTwitterArchive and type in “classified”, it’s very clear Trump has at least enough brain cells to understand that the way one handles classified documents is important.

Republicans will make every argument in defense of Trump a game of semantics, loopholes, technicalities, etc. But even if Trump had absolute authority to declassify anything he wanted just by saying it, that has little bearing on the DoJ determining the actual documents were not his, or Trump’s refusal to comply to return them.

And if he uses some procedural argument claiming he thought he could just declassify things at will (which may be partially true, as he did so in the past with no immunity), he can’t claim complete ignorance as to procedure when he sends out stuff like this on his shitty Twitter-knockoff…

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Right, missing the days when we used to care about the character of the president. I know not everyone here will agree but Bush & Reagan were decent human beings, also candidates like McCain and Romney as well. We just disagree on the issues and I can handle that, feels like such a different time now that things are so divisive.

Why is Bush so silent now? If he cares about the country, a statement critical of Trump's misdeeds and the vitriol he has created would help. I don't know how much, but it would help. He has nothing to lose politically at this point. How can someone in his position just stand by and watch what is happening without at least trying to do something?

 

[Eric]

Why is Bush so silent now? If he cares about the country, a statement critical of Trump's misdeeds and the vitriol he has created would help. I don't know how much, but it would help. He has nothing to lose politically at this point. How can someone in his position just stand by and watch what is happening without at least trying to do something?

I think he just chooses his battles, to be fair he's spoken out against him several times.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-04-20/george-w-bush-condemns-the-trump-era-republican-party

 

[Yoused]

Why is Bush so silent now?

W managed to attain an approval rating of 23% late in his second term, down from a peak around 90% in Sept of '01. The lowest Individual-ONE ever got was 37%, and that was not even after Jan6. W is quiet because he never had the drooling, fawning fanbase like Individual-ONE and so being quiet is far better for him than trying to make his semi-coherent word noises.

 

[lizkat]

Why is Bush so silent now? If he cares about the country, a statement critical of Trump's misdeeds and the vitriol he has created would help. I don't know how much, but it would help. He has nothing to lose politically at this point. How can someone in his position just stand by and watch what is happening without at least trying to do something?

It's traditional for former presidents to stay out of the limelight.

Bush would probably have been willing to let stand the comment he made about Trump upon departing the inaugural ceremonies of 2016. With reference in particular to Trump's inaugural address, he apparently said at that time: "that was some weird sh^t."

In fact though, there are a few times that Bush has subsequently cast shade on Trump publicly, but not by name, usually referencing disappointment in the Republican Party's direction, or sometimes talking about the change in how Americans relate to each other now. For example when he was giving a speech in Pennsylvania on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, his remarks included these words:

"In the weeks and months following the 9/11 attacks, I was proud to lead an amazing, resilient, united people. When it comes to the unity of America, those days seem distant from our own. A malign force seems at work in our common life that turns every disagreement into an argument, and every argument into a clash of cultures. So much of our politics has become a naked appeal to anger, fear, and resentment. That leaves us worried about our nation and our future together.​

​

I come without explanations or solutions. I can only tell you what I have seen.​

On America's day of trial and grief, I saw millions of people instinctively grab for a neighbor's hand and rally to the cause of one another. That is the America I know.​

​

At a time when religious bigotry might have flowed freely, I saw Americans reject prejudice and embrace people of Muslim faith. That is the nation I know.​

​

At a time when nativism could have stirred hatred and violence against people perceived as outsiders, I saw Americans reaffirm their welcome to immigrants and refugees. That is the nation I know.​

​

At a time when some viewed the rising generation as individualistic and decadent, I saw young people embrace an ethic of service and rise to selfless action. That is the nation I know.​

​

This is not mere nostalgia; it is the truest version of ourselves. It is what we have been -- and what we can be again."​

Of course that was more than just a rebuke to Trump, it was a call to Americans to rethink their part in whatever has come to divide us so harshly. But Trump clearly took it for what it was, and lashed out at Bush after the speech:

"He shouldn't be lecturing us about anything. The World Trade Center came down during his watch."​

 

[GermanSuplex]

I’ve heard this line before… when there is no valid defense, then we should just move on to worry about other things. “Why are people worried about me taking a few dollars from a bank vault when China is taking us for billions?”

Then there’s Eric Trump reducing whatever the FBI found as “sole documents for a library”,

And of course, he accuses Biden of signing off on all this. So am I to believe Trump signed off on Roger Stone’s early-morning arrest?



Watching republicans lie to their base makes me want to pull my damn hair out. I watched Dan Bongino tell someone on national TV they were lying when they told him Trump was subpoenaed for the documents before the raid. He’s literally telling a complete lie by calling someone else’s truthful statement a lie.

 

[lizkat]

I’ve heard this line before… when there is no valid defense, then we should just move on to worry about other things. “Why are people worried about me taking a few dollars from a bank vault when China is taking us for billions?”

Then there’s Eric Trump reducing whatever the FBI found as “sole documents for a library”,

And of course, he accuses Biden of signing off on all this. So am I to believe Trump signed off on Roger Stone’s early-morning arrest?



Watching republicans lie to their base makes me want to pull my damn hair out. I watched Dan Bongino tell someone on national TV they were lying when they told him Trump was subpoenaed for the documents before the raid. He’s literally telling a complete lie by calling someone else’s truthful statement a lie.

Everything gets reduced to entertainment or outrage. Either is fine, the masters of ceremonies just want the base to stay engaged and ready to throw money at Trump the next time he needs to put a down payment on legal counsel.

Honestly the gullibility runs deep in this Trump cult. Never seen anything else like it.

It all makes me fear for the state of basic literacy in the next generations.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

It's traditional for former presidents to stay out of the limelight.

I guess Trump didn't get the message.

I wasn't aware of the attempts by W to address how his party has strayed, but at this point they seem too little. Cheney's video denouncing Trump didn't help Liz win her election but maybe it woke some Trumpers up and W could do more given the stakes. It would have to come from him and not Clinton or Obama because they would just be denounced as partisan.

 

[mollyc]

Just curious - What about her did you not like? And how much of it was actual vs. the narrative created by Trump of "crooked Hillary" and "nasty woman?" Most people in the know understood that Trump was a liar, cheater and lifelong grifter, so to like Hillary even less she must have done some really terrible things. What were they?

I didn't like Bill Clinton in the 90s and by extension, I have never liked the woman who was married to him. My disdain for her grew over the years, and has zero to do with whatever Trump ever said about her.

 

[Cmaier]

I didn't like Bill Clinton in the 90s and by extension, I have never liked the woman who was married to him. My disdain for her grew over the years, and has zero to do with whatever Trump ever said about her.

I found that she was particularly unpopular with white women in western Pennsylvania (mostly Butler county). Every time I’d visit, I’d be bombarded with complaints. She should have dumped Bill. She should have stood by Bill more because something about “equally yoked” which, as a non-Christian, i have no idea what that was about. She is too shrill. She is phony. etc.

Eventually that was replaced by those same white women in western Pennsylvania complaining about Michelle Obama trying to force their kids to eat healthy lunches. Though I recall fondly one such conversation where I explained that, from my perspective, if The Government is going to force me to send my kid to school, I’d rather that they feed her healthy food than crappy food, and the woman I was talking to was actually buying that maybe healthy school lunches were not such a bad idea. Then I found out that while this conversation was happening my 8 year old was being taught how to shoot a rifle without my knowledge.

I try not to go to western Pennsylvania anymore.

 

[Roller]

I didn't like Bill Clinton in the 90s and by extension, I have never liked the woman who was married to him. My disdain for her grew over the years, and has zero to do with whatever Trump ever said about her.

I don’t think it’s fair to dislike someone because you don’t like their spouse. I’ve had a few friends whose partners I despised. We may wonder why a person we like would stay with someone we don’t, but the reasons are often unknown, even to close friends.

As for Ms. Clinton, there were certainly aspects of her personality and things she’d done that I found distasteful. But I maintain the country would have been far better off had she won in 2016 (which she did by popular vote).

 

[mollyc]

I found that she was particularly unpopular with white women in western Pennsylvania (mostly Butler county). Every time I’d visit, I’d be bombarded with complaints. She should have dumped Bill. She should have stood by Bill more because something about “equally yoked” which, as a non-Christian, i have no idea what that was about. She is too shrill. She is phony. etc.

Eventually that was replaced by those same white women in western Pennsylvania complaining about Michelle Obama trying to force their kids to eat healthy lunches. Though I recall fondly one such conversation where I explained that, from my perspective, if The Government is going to force me to send my kid to school, I’d rather that they feed her healthy food than crappy food, and the woman I was talking to was actually buying that maybe healthy school lunches were not such a bad idea. Then I found out that while this conversation was happening my 8 year old was being taught how to shoot a rifle without my knowledge.

I try not to go to western Pennsylvania anymore.

hahahaha. I grew up in Lawrence County.

I didn't mind Michelle Obama that much. I've grown more open minded as I've gotten older and were Obama president now I would probably like them more than I did at the time. I did always think that Michelle was kind and had everyone's best interests at heart. I only ever thought that Hillary was out for herself.

 

[Renzatic]

I didn't like Bill Clinton in the 90s and by extension, I have never liked the woman who was married to him. My disdain for her grew over the years, and has zero to do with whatever Trump ever said about her.

The Clinton's, to me, have always been emblematic of the kind of soft corruption that's rife in Washington. They don't outright flaunt the rule of law, but they're not above backscratching, giving friends and allies an unfair advantage, or looking the other way when it's convenient for they and theirs.

It's not something that will break the nation, but it's also something we shouldn't treat as casually as we do. I can understand why some people don't like the Clinton's due to that. What I don't understand is why so many people turned to Trump as the solution to that problem, who by all metrics is considerably worse in every way imaginable.

 

[Edd]

What I don't understand is why so many people turned to Trump as the solution to that problem, who by all metrics is considerably worse in every way imaginable.

Trusting a grifter to drain the swamp, like hiring a known child molester to babysit.

 

[MEJHarrison]

I found that she was particularly unpopular with white women in western Pennsylvania (mostly Butler county).

I was born and lived is eastern Ohio (Trumbull county) till I was 11. So I think I know the type of women you're talking about.

I try not to go to eastern Ohio anymore.

 

[Renzatic]

Trusting a grifter to drain the swamp, like hiring a known child molester to babysit.

It's more like not trusting someone to babysit your kids because you heard they cheated on their SATs, and going through the sex offender registry to find someone to replace her with.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I found that she was particularly unpopular with white women in western Pennsylvania (mostly Butler county). Every time I’d visit, I’d be bombarded with complaints. She should have dumped Bill. She should have stood by Bill more because something about “equally yoked” which, as a non-Christian, i have no idea what that was about. She is too shrill. She is phony. etc.

Eventually that was replaced by those same white women in western Pennsylvania complaining about Michelle Obama trying to force their kids to eat healthy lunches. Though I recall fondly one such conversation where I explained that, from my perspective, if The Government is going to force me to send my kid to school, I’d rather that they feed her healthy food than crappy food, and the woman I was talking to was actually buying that maybe healthy school lunches were not such a bad idea. Then I found out that while this conversation was happening my 8 year old was being taught how to shoot a rifle without my knowledge.

I try not to go to western Pennsylvania anymore.

Reminds me of a Bill Burr bit complaining about first ladies being too involved in things. Paraphrased “Republicans keep their wives in check. I don’t even know what W Bush’s wife’s name was. Abigail or some shit? I didn’t vote for you, lady. I voted for your husband.” I don’t know how nobody has tried to cancel him.

 

[GermanSuplex]

If republicans want the affidavit released, and Trump wants it released, why don't the white nationalist Fox panelists demand to know why they've not made any motions or argued their case in court? We already know the answer; it's an empty maneuver by the Trump clan to feign transparency. It's easy to talk about wanting the affidavit unsealed when you're not petitioning the courts to do so and know there's very little that will come out unredacted.

On a related note, its interesting that Rudy was testifying for hours in the GA probe and was pretty restrained when talking to reporters... he offered zero details and didn't run his mouth about anything, really. If all he did was plead the fifth, he was sure in there a long time.

Rudy is a laughingstock, but its not too late for redemption.... he thinly hinted a year or so ago that he knows where the bodies are buried, and that's the one thing Rudy has said that I'm inclined to believe. Also, there is no attorney/client privilege when you're actively engaging in crimes. There's a lot at stake in that GA probe, and all these legal situations Trump finds himself in can play on each other and offer evidence to one another. He should tread lightly.

The latest I'm hearing is that they're thinking about releasing surveillance footage of the Mar-A-Lago raid. That would be incredibly stupid and dangerous... much like Trump himself... and I don't really know if it would offer any answers, it would just give the insane cultists on social media a chance to harass any federal officers who's faces aren't blurred. I've got a feeling this whole thing is going to uglier before it gets better.

 

[lizkat]

I guess Trump didn't get the message.

I wasn't aware of the attempts by W to address how his party has strayed, but at this point they seem too little. Cheney's video denouncing Trump didn't help Liz win her election but maybe it woke some Trumpers up and W could do more given the stakes. It would have to come from him and not Clinton or Obama because they would just be denounced as partisan.

I don't know that anything said or done by any former president can really help much at this point, what with so many of us more interested in talking than listening anyway.

What we need and will finally attain-- if only by weariness of escalating hatred-- is individual refusal to support all the drama, and to become interested instead once again in actual track records of people stepping up to run for office.

Maybe could start by asking pols just to quit ramping up partisan hatred one more notch. We know how to hate. Where is the pol who is more about helping us become more neighborly again? What's with the wink and nod to morons advocating a civil war?

Why not cut a pol off when he starts to rant on the stump about the other guy, and ask him this: "What policies are you FOR? What does your PARTY mean to work for that's in American interests? How can you help get there?"

Any fool can insult another candidate and stir up trouble on social media or the street. Not sure why voters think pols who do the same thing as some drunk down the bar on a Friday night should be elected to represent us or lead us in matters of governance. All that does in the long run is invite political violence.

But at this point we're still far more likely to think that whoever is talking right now is just flapping his gums, whether he's a former president or the current one, an op-ed writer, editorial board, talk show host or some wannbe influencer on social media.

Talk was never so cheap, and even when worth listening to it ends up instantly devalued by haters of various stripe.

Some used to say of Bush that he was "all hat and no cattle," a particularly Texan pejorative. At least he hasn't been out there bragging 24/7 on how he's [still?] a naked emperor, unlike Trump who seems perversely hell bent on proving exactly that of himself at least a few times every day.

I admire Bush for having the humility to say in that one speech "I come to you without explanations or solutions; I can only tell you what I have seen." He reminded us that we have indeed been better neighbors to each other than we are now. It's worth thinking about how we got to where we are and how much of that is on each of us. We might also want to quit watching American pols inventing new hills to die on in partisan hatred, and instead start trying to acknowledge that we do stand on a lot of common ground.