Guns are still America’s religion

[SuperMatt]

Well, my bump stock was banned, several of my magazines have been made illegal in certain jurisdictions and I do think my AR's will be made illegal at some point.

Watch a video of the Las Vegas shooting and listen to how fast those bullets were flying out. 90 bullets in 10 seconds. And you still want a bump stock? Even the NRA supported getting rid of them. How can anybody be more extreme than the NRA? It truly boggles my mind.

 

[Roller]

Well here is something that makes me happy, but probaby will make most of you here nervous....

Black gun ownership is increasing and that is a great thing. But I wonder if all these Black American gun owners are going to be happy with the Dems wanting to limit their newly discovered 2A rights?

I'll leave aside your flawed interpretation of the second amendment as an unfettered right for people to keep arms of any type in the context of a well-regulated militia. And why limit it to guns? Arms includes methods not even conceived of when it was written in 1791.

If experience has taught us one thing, it should be that humans are terrible at making rational decisions in the heat of the moment. That is why police officers and others who may have to use deadly force in the conduct of their duties are supposed to be highly trained so that their drilling kicks in when they're in a highly-charged situation. Unfortunately, we've seen how that doesn't always work as it's supposed to.

Do you really think you and your family are safer outside your home, where even normally well-behaved people with concealed weapons may react impulsively to something you do or say? And that doesn't account for the truly deranged folks who decide to kill a judge who sentenced them, a doctor who didn't provide the outcome they wanted, or some other perceived slight.

Other countries have recognized that what we do is madness, but our answer is always the same: more guns in more hands.

 

[Herdfan]

I'll leave aside your flawed interpretation of the second amendment as an unfettered right for people to keep arms of any type in the context of a well-regulated militia. And why limit it to guns? Arms includes methods not even conceived of when it was written in 1791.

Again, based on that interpretation, the 1A only extends to spoken speech and newspapers.

And there are SCOTUS rulings that beg to differ with your interpretation.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Well, my bump stock was banned, several of my magazines have been made illegal in certain jurisdictions and I do think my AR's will be made illegal at some point.

Which brings us to the point many people have made.

What do you need a bump stock for? Why were the magazines made illegal in certain jurisdictions? Most importantly why does a civilian need an AR?

For hunting?

For Sport?

If each of those things were never sold to the public & kept for military use only, would you NEED them? Would you be unable to enjoy shooting as a hobby or sport? Would it prevent you from hunting? Would you be unable to fetishize such things?

Those are NOT weapons you NEED, but WANT because they were MADE available to sell. If those things were NEVER made available for sale to the public, you wouldn't miss them if guns were really for sport, hunting, or collecting to you. It's all about the fear what you can't have, because it was marketed to you as that way.

 

[Herdfan]

Which brings us to the point many people have made.

What do you need a bump stock for? Why were the magazines made illegal in certain jurisdictions? Most importantly why does a civilian need an AR?

Because I like going out and shooting. Bump stocks are fun. Can't hit the broad side of a barn with one, but they are fun to try and find the sweet spot.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Because I like going out and shooting. Bump stocks are fun. Can't hit the broad side of a barn with one, but they are fun to try and find the sweet spot.

Yes, but that was NOT the question. Don't just cherry pick the parts you think can handle.

Do you NEED them to enjoy going out to shoot?

Would your joy in shooting cease without the bump stock?

IF the bump stock was NEVER sold to you in the first place, would that have stopped you from going out to shoot?

Do you understand why the need was felt to keep bump stocks out of civilian hands?

 

[SuperMatt]

Because I like going out and shooting. Bump stocks are fun. Can't hit the broad side of a barn with one, but they are fun to try and find the sweet spot.

Your fun is more important than others’ lives.

And there is the gun “rights” argument laid bare.

 

[DT]

Target shooting? Get a Benjamin air rifle in .177 or .22, accurate, nice options, super inexpensive to shoot (entry price is upper-moderate for an air rifle).

Hunting for sport? Bow. Period. Everything else is just being an animal sniper.

Let's be real: the reason for having AR for "plinking" or a bump stop for "fun" is because there's an underlying gun empowerment hardon.

 

[SuperMatt]

Target shooting? Get a Benjamin air rifle in .177 or .22, accurate, nice options, super inexpensive to shoot (entry price is upper-moderate for an air rifle).

Hunting for sport? Bow. Period. Everything else is just being an animal sniper.

Let's be real: the reason for having AR for "plinking" or a bump stop for "fun" is because there's an underlying gun empowerment hardon.

Yes, many claim they need their guns to overthrow a tyrant. Really?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1531312016480260099/

 

[SuperMatt]

Jonathan Capehart, writing for the Washington Post, responds to those advocating for black people to buy more guns.

This present-day Black fear of White violence was perfectly expressed by Rob Redding, one of the everyday people interviewed for a Post report on how 1 in 3 Americans believe that violence against the government can be justified. Redding told The Post that the Jan. 6 insurrectionists stormed the Capitol seeking to “subvert American democracy because now it’s becoming equal for all people.” He spoke approvingly of arming himself and added, “I’m a Black man in America. … I believe in protecting myself.” Notice he’s not protecting himself against the government. He’s protecting himself against “crazy” White people.

When it comes to Black folks acquiring weapons, Redding is in the minority. According to that Post-Ipsos poll, 51 percent of African Americans said they have not considered buying a gun since the Buffalo massacre. Why is no mystery. The right to self-protection, let alone the right to bear arms, doesn’t exactly apply to Black people.

Think about it. Imagine I get a gun for self-protection (not that I ever would, but stay with me). A situation arises in which I use it to protect myself. But then the cops arrive, see a gun, “fear for their lives,” and, well, the rest writes itself. Remember Philando Castile? We can’t win.

https://wapo.st/3Q7D0xe

(Paywall removed)

 

[Roller]

Again, based on that interpretation, the 1A only extends to spoken speech and newspapers.

And there are SCOTUS rulings that beg to differ with your interpretation.

The constitution and the Bill of Rights were written more than 200 years ago by people who could not have foreseen the technological and social milieu 21st century. So we have to determine how to balance original intent with the realities of the modern world. Hence, it makes sense that the 1st amendment applies to modes of communication other than speech and the press. But conversely, if the the 2nd amendment were taken to mean all arms, individuals would be able to own any weapon, no matter how destructive. That makes no sense in a civilized society.

However, you failed to answer my question about personal safety. Is putting more guns in the hands of people who aren't trained to use them appropriately (I'm referring to when, in addition to how to use them) really going to make everyone safer, especially when folks can easily purchase semi-automatic weapons that can kill dozens in a few moments?

 

[Herdfan]

Your fun is more important than others’ lives.

And there is the gun “rights” argument laid bare.

Given that my guns haven't shot anyone, this is a hollow argument. My rights don't go away because of something someone else does.

But, I read an Op-Ed on CNN this morning with a possible solution. The ATF can change the classification of all semi-automatic rifles to Class 3. This means real BGC's, renewed annually. So a 6-12 month wait vs 6-12 minutes.

And I believe the ATF can do this unilaterally without Congressional approval, but Congress can over-rule them.

The big question is what happens with existing AR's. Mine is no problem I would just need to let the ATF know I have an additional Class 3 weapon. But other people won't be willing to go through the BGC process and some will fail. So does the government buy them back? Or maybe people can donate them to a local PD for a $1000 tax credit.

 

[SuperMatt]

Given that my guns haven't shot anyone, this is a hollow argument. My rights don't go away because of something someone else does.

The permissive bump stock law allowed you to have fun with high-speed automatic fire. It also allowed killers to fire 90 rounds in 10 seconds. Sorry, preventing that is more important than you having fun at the range. Even Trump was able to see that. Perhaps you are so enamored with your own fun times with guns, that you don’t see the connection between overly permissive laws and the carnage at schools and across America.

I might find it fun to set off a nuclear explosion because I like looking at the mushroom cloud. I promise I do it in a safe space. So why shouldn’t nuclear weapons be legal for everybody? If somebody sets one off in the middle of a city, they were just a bad person, and it’s a mental health issue. Oh well, too bad a few million people died. Nothing to be done except get more good people with ICBMs.

 

[Herdfan]

The permissive bump stock law allowed you to have fun with high-speed automatic fire. It also allowed killers to fire 90 rounds in 10 seconds.

I am going to guess, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you have never fired with a bump stock. It is hard to get the timing right to find the sweet spot. And incredibly difficult to hit a target. The guy in Vegas, given what he was firing at it might have made sense. I think individual shots through a scope would have caused more carnage, but what do I know as I have only been shooting for 50 years.

Also, since they are now banned, I no longer have one. So please stop assuming I do and projecting what I might or might do with one.

 

[SuperMatt]

I am going to guess, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you have never fired with a bump stock. It is hard to get the timing right to find the sweet spot. And incredibly difficult to hit a target. The guy in Vegas, given what he was firing at it might have made sense. I think individual shots through a scope would have caused more carnage, but what do I know as I have only been shooting for 50 years.

Also, since they are now banned, I no longer have one. So please stop assuming I do and projecting what I might or might do with one.

It's...

NOT
ABOUT
YOU.

It’s about public safety. I’m sure YOU are the safest gun owner in the world. Just like I would be the safest nuclear bomb owner in the world if I had one (probably). Having the weapons widely available means that irresponsible people WILL get them. People with ill intent WILL get them. So we need to make sure they are much harder to get, and that semi-automatic ones are nigh-impossible to obtain.

And, congratulations on not keeping illegal bump stocks around, I guess. Do you want a medal for (begrudgingly) following the law?

 

[Herdfan]

And, congratulations on not keeping illegal bump stocks around, I guess. Do you want a medal for (begrudgingly) following the law?

I have 2 full autos. So not really a sacrifice.

And when my rights are violated, it is 100% about me.

 

[SuperMatt]

I have 2 full autos. So not really a sacrifice.

And when my rights are violated, it is 100% about me.

Yes, that was made very clear during the mask debate.

There are other people in the world. They don’t want to see their little kids shot. So at some point, sanity will prevail, and their rights to live will supersede others’ rights to impulse-buy military-style weapons at the drop of a hat. It’s not if… it’s when.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

For many white Americans, the idea of the gun is all they have left

White Americans cling to the gun as a symbol of strength and independence. They see its loss as a final, fatal blow

www.salon.com

The short of it is many white Americans feel it's the last thing left that gives them the sense of control and power while gangster capitalism and the our oligarch controlled government is stripping everything else away.

 

[SuperMatt]

Glad to see there is consensus on so many of these reforms. Biden called for almost all of these during his speech this week.

Sadly, I feel there is no hope of Republicans adopting even one of them though.

Remember when Mitch McConnell assigned Tim Scott to address police violence in 2020, and he pretended to work on it, then decided to do nothing after a year? It will be the same with Sen. Cornyn and the gun control measures.

Have somebody ”work on it” for a while but then come up with nothing and blame the liberals. They just want to look like they care until enough time passes for emotions to calm down. Then they will walk away. You’ll see.

Today, Senators are calling for patience on legislation to protect kids from gun violence. From the Washington Post:

The top Republican negotiator, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.), issued a similar plea for patience Monday, counseling his colleagues against setting “artificial deadlines.”

“I don’t believe the Senate will be voting this week, because good consensus legislation takes time,” he said. “My goal is to achieve a result. And the only way we can do that, the only way we can get a bill that will pass both chambers and earn the president’s signature, is by taking the time and reaching that consensus.”

See my post above. I’m concerned this means history will repeat itself.

 

[Yoused]

I might find it fun to set off a nuclear explosion because I like looking at the mushroom cloud. I promise I do it in a safe space. So why shouldn’t nuclear weapons be legal for everybody?

We had lunch in a place in downtown Portland where the waitress, Kyoko, was as old as my mother – she was in Hiroshima Japan on August 6th of '45. She saw the cloud and she told us it was a beautiful swarm of shifting colors. So, yeah, you will never get a chance to see that first-hand. Damn bomb-control laws.