Guns are still America’s religion

Huntn said:
They were found by police hiding in a warehouse. These people who want guns without restrictions, I think many of them want guns without accountability too.

www.fox13now.com

Parents of Michigan school shooter found hiding

Police say James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of a teen accused of killing four students in a Michigan school shooting, were taken into custody in Detroit overnight.
www.fox13now.com www.fox13now.com
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Parents held accountable for their kids shooting up places is a step in the direction I'm advocating for:
People can stick to their guns, but if somebody else gets killed or injured by their gun, then they shall stick to the principle of responsibility too.
 
P_X said:
Parents held accountable for their kids shooting up places is a step in the direction I'm advocating for:
People can stick to their guns, but if somebody else gets killed or injured by their gun, then they shall stick to the principle of responsibility too.
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For reference, let's remember what their attorney said earlier...

www.fox2detroit.com

Parents of accused Oxford shooter are headed back to area for arraignment, say attorneys

UPDATE (4:15 p.m.): The parents of teen shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley are returning to the area for their arraignment according to attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com
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JayMysteri0 said:
Responsible gun owner defends himself from speeding car...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1467924699011338248/

NOT!

Not in America, guy angry gets gun, shoots someone.

Story as usual.
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This reminds me the story of the woman who was chased home by a group of men on motorcycles and pulled her own gun to scare them off, only to find that the road-rager biker was also carrying a concealed weapon. The reason for them chasing her home? A minor traffic collision that didn’t injure anybody, or even disable the motorcycle.

In both cases, road-ragers killed somebody because they had guns. This is happening more and more frequently. It’s bad enough when somebody gets road rage and drives dangerously to express it... but add guns into the mix, and it’s like Mad Max out there.
 
SuperMatt said:
This reminds me the story of the woman who was chased home by a group of men on motorcycles and pulled her own gun to scare them off, only to find that the road-rager biker was also carrying a concealed weapon. The reason for them chasing her home? A minor traffic collision that didn’t injure anybody, or even disable the motorcycle.
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Your version of this is far different from most reporting.
 
JayMysteri0 said:
Responsible gun owner defends himself from speeding car...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1467924699011338248/

NOT!

Not in America, guy angry gets gun, shoots someone.

Story as usual.
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@DT I hope you're OK.

SuperMatt said:
This reminds me the story of the woman who was chased home by a group of men on motorcycles and pulled her own gun to scare them off, only to find that the road-rager biker was also carrying a concealed weapon. The reason for them chasing her home? A minor traffic collision that didn’t injure anybody, or even disable the motorcycle.

In both cases, road-ragers killed somebody because they had guns. This is happening more and more frequently. It’s bad enough when somebody gets road rage and drives dangerously to express it... but add guns into the mix, and it’s like Mad Max out there.
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These people need diapers, not guns.
 
Herdfan said:
Your version of this is far different from most reporting.
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I don’t think I got any details wrong.

Most reporting put quite a spin on things, in favor of the killer.

1. How do we know the woman intentionally hit the man on the motorcycle? They are claiming that without backing it up.

2. Was the killer under immediate threat just because the woman had a gun?

All accounts were from witnesses who literally followed the woman home along with the killer, so presumably these witnesses are friends of the killer. That means I have to read between the lines on what’s being said to try and get to a more honest account.

To me, somebody followed home by multiple men on bikes would feel threatened enough to get a gun and tell them to leave, which accounts confirm she did.
 
SuperMatt said:
This reminds me the story of the woman who was chased home by a group of men on motorcycles and pulled her own gun to scare them off, only to find that the road-rager biker was also carrying a concealed weapon. The reason for them chasing her home? A minor traffic collision that didn’t injure anybody, or even disable the motorcycle.

In both cases, road-ragers killed somebody because they had guns. This is happening more and more frequently. It’s bad enough when somebody gets road rage and drives dangerously to express it... but add guns into the mix, and it’s like Mad Max out there.
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You keep trying to make this woman the victim. She caused her own death by simply not staying in her home until the police came. You have a bias towards this group of bikers because they're bikers. They didn't break the law. They weren't banging on her door when she came out with a gun. They were on the public street waiting for the police to show up. SHE'S the one that made a bad decision and came out with a gun pointed at them. It cost her her life. #ThoughtsAndPrayers
 
SuperMatt said:
I don’t think I got any details wrong.

Most reporting put quite a spin on things, in favor of the killer.

1. How do we know the woman intentionally hit the man on the motorcycle? They are claiming that without backing it up.

2. Was the killer under immediate threat just because the woman had a gun?

All accounts were from witnesses who literally followed the woman home along with the killer, so presumably these witnesses are friends of the killer. That means I have to read between the lines on what’s being said to try and get to a more honest account.

To me, somebody followed home by multiple men on bikes would feel threatened enough to get a gun and tell them to leave, which accounts confirm she did.
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All that could have been avoided if she had just stayed inside until the police came.
 
JagRunner said:
All that could have been avoided if she had just stayed inside until the police came.
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Sorry but @SuperMatt's narrative is just as correct as yours... Neither of us have enough information to further debate this.
She is the victim by definition. Period. Full stop. The killer can have his victim privileges next time he gets homicided.
 
JagRunner said:
You keep trying to make this woman the victim. She caused her own death by simply not staying in her home until the police came. You have a bias towards this group of bikers because they're bikers. They didn't break the law. They weren't banging on her door when she came out with a gun. They were on the public street waiting for the police to show up. SHE'S the one that made a bad decision and came out with a gun pointed at them. It cost her her life. #ThoughtsAndPrayers
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She is a victim of a shooting. I disagree with your opinion (which you present as fact for some reason). Wielding a weapon doesn’t make it open season for others to gun you down.

She had no way of knowing the biker had a gun. From the accounts, he didn’t warn her before opening fire. And also, it doesn’t seem like anybody’s life was in danger until he did so. She was telling them that they were threatening her and she told them to leave. She didn’t fire a warning shot.

You say SHE should have called the police. If one looks at the law for collisions like this, it is the bikers who should have noted her license plate and called the police. Following her home was unnecessary.

Remember, the witnesses in the case are NOT impartial observers. No impartial observer would follow a woman home after a fender bender. These were the killer’s friends. So their accounts are to be taken with many grains of salt.

People DEFINITIVELY stating that she is to blame are full of it. We don’t know all the facts, and I am VERY skeptical of witness reports from friends of the killer.
 
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P_X said:
Sorry but @SuperMatt's narrative is just as correct as yours... Neither of us have enough information to further debate this.
She is the victim by definition. Period. Full stop. The killer can have his victim privileges next time he gets homicided.
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Is he being charged with a crime?
 
JagRunner said:
Is he being charged with a crime?
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Investigation is ongoing. Did you listen to HER 911 call? She was telling them to leave her alone and then you hear many gunshots from Derr.

Did you see the video of where her house is? Not exactly on a busy street, and fairly lengthy driveway. Not like they needed to hang around either. It would be real easy to note the address, call the cops, and go home.

www.wftv.com

Police release 911 calls from shooting of Volusia library assistant after hit-and-run crash

Orange City police are investigating after a Volusia County library assistant was shot and killed during a road rage incident, police said.
www.wftv.com www.wftv.com

You weren’t there, but you are willing to say “she’s at fault, #thoughtsandprayers” which is an asshole thing to do for anybody that died, much less a pregnant woman.

Perhaps the killer will be able to claim self defense in court (if he’s charged). But being completely heartless towards the deceased pregnant woman is disgusting IMHO.
 
JagRunner said:
Is he being charged with a crime?
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Is the investigation over? No. I stated the only facts in terms of who is the victim, who is the killer and that it was a homicide.

If you're into snuff porn, here it is... She yells at them telling "You are three men. You followed me home. Leave me alone!" Gets 8 bullets within 2.5 sec from the first word. Derr's gotta have some drawing skills, unless he was fixin to pull that trigger already...
 
SuperMatt said:
But being completely heartless towards the deceased pregnant woman is disgusting IMHO.
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I spent a lot of years using a bicycle as my transportation. Car drivers are serious assholes. I realize that a motorcycle is very different from a bicycle, but in terms of being vulnerable on the road, there are a lot of similarities. I also realize that a lot of motorcyclists are assholes as well. But the main thing about operating a vehicle is, that thing in front of you, fail to hit it. That is your job, and if that thing in front of you is smaller than you, really do not hit it.

But there is a big gap in this story. What was it happened that caused them to follow her home? Lacking unbiased info, it is hard to guess. TBMK, even gang bikers are not in the habit of picking out a random stranger for harassment. Something happened, and if you know what it is like to (even seem to) have cheated death, you know that emotions can run high in the moment.

Which does not excuse the guy from shooting her. She should not be dead today, even if she scared the shit outta the biker. Yet, it still bothers me, the callous disregard with which so many people operate their vehicles.
 
SuperMatt said:
She is a victim of a shooting. I disagree with your opinion (which you present as fact for some reason). Wielding a weapon doesn’t make it open season for others to gun you down.

You say SHE should have called the police. If one looks at the law for collisions like this, it is the bikers who should have noted her license plate and called the police. Following her home was unnecessary.
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Simply wielding, perhaps not. But the minute she raised it in their direction she was an imminent threat. Rule 2 of gun ownership (Rule 1 is always treat a weapon as loaded) is don't point it at anything you don't intend to shoot. So they had no idea if she would fire it or was simply trying to scare them off.

From several reports, she was also on the phone with 911 when she came out of the house with the gun. I understand she may have been scared, but given they weren't banging on her door or threatening her, she needed to stay inside her house.

We taught our daughter that if she ever thinks she is being followed, do not go home and instead call 911 and have them direct her to the nearest police station.
 
Herdfan said:
Simply wielding, perhaps not. But the minute she raised it in their direction she was an imminent threat. Rule 2 of gun ownership (Rule 1 is always treat a weapon as loaded) is don't point it at anything you don't intend to shoot. So they had no idea if she would fire it or was simply trying to scare them off.

From several reports, she was also on the phone with 911 when she came out of the house with the gun. I understand she may have been scared, but given they weren't banging on her door or threatening her, she needed to stay inside her house.

We taught our daughter that if she ever thinks she is being followed, do not go home and instead call 911 and have them direct her to the nearest police station.
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You don’t know if she raised it in their direction. It’s the word of the killer and his friends against a corpse. The dead tell no tales. I saw the video from the body cam. This wasn’t a “public street” as reports make it sound. It’s a dirt road, maybe part of her driveway? It looks like she was on her own property when she was shot.

I think it’s pretty insane to claim ‘self defense’ when you follow a person home and shoot them on their own lawn when they’re telling you to leave their property,
 
Yoused said:
I spent a lot of years using a bicycle as my transportation. Car drivers are serious assholes. I realize that a motorcycle is very different from a bicycle, but in terms of being vulnerable on the road, there are a lot of similarities. I also realize that a lot of motorcyclists are assholes as well. But the main thing about operating a vehicle is, that thing in front of you, fail to hit it. That is your job, and if that thing in front of you is smaller than you, really do not hit it.

But there is a big gap in this story. What was it happened that caused them to follow her home? Lacking unbiased info, it is hard to guess. TBMK, even gang bikers are not in the habit of picking out a random stranger for harassment. Something happened, and if you know what it is like to (even seem to) have cheated death, you know that emotions can run high in the moment.

Which does not excuse the guy from shooting her. She should not be dead today, even if she scared the shit outta the biker. Yet, it still bothers me, the callous disregard with which so many people operate their vehicles.
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There is zero reason to follow somebody home after an accident in which nobody was injured. Get the license plate and call the cops. Done. Following the person home is vigilantism and probably stalking too.

Sure you would be angry if you were on a bike and got hit… all the more reason to NOT follow the person - your anger might cause you to do something stupid like murder another human being.
 
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