Hamas has launched a major attack on Israel

Herdfan said:
Possibly good news. Maybe. Israel needs to get on board so we will see.

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Now it appears Hamas has agreed to a different deal than the one offered to them. The sticking point seems to be that Hamas demands an end to hostilities, as opposed to a cease-fire. Not that I'm a supporter of Netanyahu, but I'd also be wary of agreeing to anything too expansive at this point. The immediate goal should be to stop the fighting, release the hostages, and allow massive aid to enter Gaza.
 
Roller said:
Now it appears Hamas has agreed to a different deal than the one offered to them. The sticking point seems to be that Hamas demands an end to hostilities, as opposed to a cease-fire. Not that I'm a supporter of Netanyahu, but I'd also be wary of agreeing to anything too expansive at this point. The immediate goal should be to stop the fighting, release the hostages, and allow massive aid to enter Gaza.
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Does anyone really believe there are any hostages left to release?
 
Roller said:
Now it appears Hamas has agreed to a different deal than the one offered to them. The sticking point seems to be that Hamas demands an end to hostilities, as opposed to a cease-fire. Not that I'm a supporter of Netanyahu, but I'd also be wary of agreeing to anything too expansive at this point. The immediate goal should be to stop the fighting, release the hostages, and allow massive aid to enter Gaza.
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Sounds like maybe it's falling through but let's see how it plays out. Was glad to hear we've stopped the shipment of weapons, I'm still with Israel but I don't see how anyone can condone sending weapons knowing they'll be used to slaughter mostly innocent people. I wish they were being more surgical with their attacks.

Alli said:
Does anyone really believe there are any hostages left to release?
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It appears Israel still believes so and we did see that video from one last week. 🤷‍♂️
 
Eric said:
Sounds like maybe it's falling through but let's see how it plays out. Was glad to hear we've stopped the shipment of weapons, I'm still with Israel but I don't see how anyone can condone sending weapons knowing they'll be used to slaughter mostly innocent people. I wish they were being more surgical with their attacks.
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I haven’t seen that reported. Where did you hear that?
 
Alli said:
I still haven’t seen any reference to that other than your posts.
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Nobody's sure one way or the other. Is it just your belief that they're all dead?
www.nbcnews.com

The number of hostages still alive in Gaza is a mystery, officials say

The uncertainty has undermined international efforts to negotiate a cease-fire deal and the release of at least some of the hostages, U.S. and Israeli officials said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Here is the hostage that spoke last week.
 
Here’s the problem Israel has with Hamas - other than transactional deals, how do they know a bunch of radical terrorists wont start the whole thing up again?

Not to mention, anyone listening too much from either one side probably isn’t getting the full scope, including myself. Israel is killing without discrimination seems plausible. Hamas hiding amongst the people and shooting artillery at Israel is also more than reasonable, and even probable. The people on the front lines of Hamas aren’t all homicidal, suicidal fanatics… but many of them are.

I mean, I don’t know how you limit collateral damage while making sure these deranged religious maniacs don’t have time to regroup.

It’s a f****d situation, and I’m sadly indifferent to either side, I’m sympathetic and critical of both (Israel and the Palestinians, not Hamas).

All BS with no clear answers.
 
Eric said:
Nobody's sure one way or the other. Is it just your belief that they're all dead?
www.nbcnews.com

The number of hostages still alive in Gaza is a mystery, officials say

The uncertainty has undermined international efforts to negotiate a cease-fire deal and the release of at least some of the hostages, U.S. and Israeli officials said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Here is the hostage that spoke last week.
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So there's proof of one hostage left out of more than 200? That does not give me hope. How can you believe they're all still alive and will be returned?
 
Alli said:
So there's proof of one hostage left out of more than 200? That does not give me hope. How can you believe they're all still alive and will be returned?
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I don't think anyone rational believes many are still alive knowing what we do about the ones whose deaths have been confirmed and the length of captivity. But there certainly may be more than one, and I view any effort to return them, however few, as worth pursuing.

Meanwhile, Israel is bombing Rafah, which Biden had apparently characterized as a line in the sand, as it were, for Netanyahu. I think Israel's stated goal of completely wiping out Hamas, as worthwhile as it once seemed, became impossible long ago. At this point, any further destruction in Gaza will just make it even more inhabitable and force the Palestinians who live(d) there to go elsewhere, though where I don't know. None of Israel's Arab neighbors seem to want them, which was also the case in 1948.
 
Alli said:
So there's proof of one hostage left out of more than 200? That does not give me hope. How can you believe they're all still alive and will be returned?
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Likewise how can you believe they're all dead? The reality is none of us know, trying to understand the underlying logic in the assumption they're all dead, justification for for continued bombings? Honestly, just trying to understand it.
 
Biden is speaking for Holocaust Remembrance day. Sounds fine to me. .. actually more than fine, actually pretty sharp 🤷‍♂️ Anytime Biden speaks on anything serious - by default - he's better than the alternative. Trump sounds like he's reading statistics when he gives these speeches. Remember when he sat with the Parkland survivors? He looked like he was in the doctors office waiting room before a colonoscopy with Dr. Hook.

The event today carries more weight with what's going on overseas and at home. The antisemetic stuff is getting under my skin because its in the news everyday, and its always been a more baffling form of hatred in my view, even more than stereotypical racism.
 
Roller said:
Meanwhile, Israel is bombing Rafah, which Biden had apparently characterized as a line in the sand, as it were, for Netanyahu. I think Israel's stated goal of completely wiping out Hamas, as worthwhile as it once seemed, became impossible long ago. At this point, any further destruction in Gaza will just make it even more inhabitable and force the Palestinians who live(d) there to go elsewhere, though where I don't know. None of Israel's Arab neighbors seem to want them, which was also the case in 1948.
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If only Hamas hadn't decided to bomb Israel from Rafah. Right?
Eric said:
Likewise how can you believe they're all dead? The reality is none of us know, trying to understand the underlying logic in the assumption they're all dead, justification for for continued bombings? Honestly, just trying to understand it.
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I can't and won't try to justify continued bombings, other than the occasion where it's return fire, like in Rafah. Hamas knows what they're doing.

As to believing they're all dead, it's a Schroedinger's Hostage situation. See my avatar, which is a necklace I wear every day.
 
Herdfan said:
It was reported a few days ago.

I read it as ammunition and not weapons but not sure there is much of a difference.
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I did see that yesterday, thanks. Seems bomb shipments were paused, though I don't know what, if any, effect that will have on IDF operations.
 
Alli said:
If only Hamas hadn't decided to bomb Israel from Rafah. Right?

I can't and won't try to justify continued bombings, other than the occasion where it's return fire, like in Rafah. Hamas knows what they're doing.
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From what I've read, Hamas fired rockets into Israel after the IDF entered Rafah, but who knows? It's so difficult to get accurate information. Regardless, I think Netanyahu would have proceeded with the Rafah operation no matter what Hamas did. He needs the war to continue at some level so he can stay in power.

But aside from all the death, injury, destruction, and starvation in Gaza, which is horrible, I keep asking is Israel better off now than before October 7? In some ways, yes, but the attack seven months ago could have been avoided or sharply curtailed were it not for a massive failure by the Israeli government. And the stated objective of eradicating Hamas remains unobtainable in the medium-long term. It's also painful to see Israel so isolated.
 
Listened to some audio of Romney at the McCain institute during a meeting or hearing where he once again said the quiet part out loud and as he did his voice started sounding like he realized it. He was voicing concern that social media is making it hard to “control the narrative”. He even mentioned specifically the TikTok ban and how Palestinians and their plight are appearing a lot more on that platform than any other and acknowledged the images being shared drives emotions. He wasn’t even claiming fake news. It’s about controlling the narrative.

I see parallels to Vietnam when the public getting video and images of what was really happening on the ground swiftly changed public opinion. The October attack was horrific but we’re getting images on the Palestinian side of days, weeks, and months of retaliation.
 
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