Indictment

JFC.

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AG_PhamD said:
So how does one criticize George Soros and/or people he gives considerable amount of money to for their campaigns with extremely progressive values without automatically being called antisemitic?
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You do it by offering a focused argument about mega-donors and the campaign finance system instead of using the name “George Soros” in lieu of any actual substance, which is precisely what is being done in the case of attacking DA Bragg.

It’s a “look over there!” tactic mixed with bigotry. Empty and insulting, and does nothing to add merit to their argument.

It’s honestly not that much different than me saying “Crime rates are higher than the average in poor, black neighborhoods”

That may be true, and there’s nothing wrong or racist about that statement in and of itself.

If the only time I make that argument is when someone I like - a rich white guy - may have to face consequences for white collar crimes, then maybe I have no substantive information or argument about crime in black neighborhoods, but am just using racist deflection and projection.

That’s the feeling I get when I hear the name “George Soros” invoked by the right. You want to clean up campaign finance laws? I’m with you. But Soros’ name does not belong in an honest discussion about these charges or Alvin Bragg. At least not with a sensible argument, which I’ve yet to see (probably because no such argument exists).
 
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From what I’ve read and heard, the connection between the 34 counts and the crime they were committed in furtherance of is a bit tenuous. I would hope the DA wouldn’t have brought the case if he weren’t reasonably certain that a link could be established and proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Question for lawyers: Could this be grounds for dismissal?
 
Roller said:
From what I’ve read and heard, the connection between the 34 counts and the crime they were committed in furtherance of is a bit tenuous. I would hope the DA wouldn’t have brought the case if he weren’t reasonably certain that a link could be established and proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Question for lawyers: Could this be grounds for dismissal?
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They will argue that, but it seems pretty solid to me. The issue isn’t tenuousness - the question is whether a federal crime meets the requirement. But there are two state crimes as well.

And at best they could knock it down to misdemeanors.
 
I have mixed feelings about the charges. To my naive perspective they appear a bit vague and kind of forced. I’m surprised that the DA couldn’t find anything more concrete to catch Trump. What about his taxes etc for example?
 
Cmaier said:
They will argue that, but it seems pretty solid to me. The issue isn’t tenuousness - the question is whether a federal crime meets the requirement. But there are two state crimes as well.

And at best they could knock it down to misdemeanors.
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I certainly don’t have the expertise to argue, or even understand, all the legal nuances. But it does concern me that so many lawyers, including seasoned prosecutors, seem quite disappointed with the indictment. And I am convinced that convicting Trump on misdemeanors would be taken as a victory by him and his supporters.

It remains to be seen whether Trump will ever serve time for any of his many offenses. But it’s painful to remember that the possibility of him serving a second term could have been prevented had the Senate voted to convict on either impeachment, particularly the second.
 
GermanSuplex said:
MTG. I knew it would be one of the usual suspects to make that comment. 🙄

“Trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history being arrested today,” she told Glenn in the backseat of her car. Nelson Mandela was arrested, served time in prison. Jesus! Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government. There have been many people throughout history that have been arrested and persecuted by radical, corrupt governments, and it’s beginning today in New York City.”
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There is another politician who spent some time in prison, then became the leader of a country and did lots of despicable things, including starting WWII. His name is Adolf Hitler.

Someone once used a "Trump quote" about being falsely accused by the corrupt judicial system, and then revealed that the quote was actually from Al Capone...
 
Roller said:
I certainly don’t have the expertise to argue, or even understand, all the legal nuances. But it does concern me that so many lawyers, including seasoned prosecutors, seem quite disappointed with the indictment. And I am convinced that convicting Trump on misdemeanors would be taken as a victory by him and his supporters.

It remains to be seen whether Trump will ever serve time for any of his many offenses. But it’s painful to remember that the possibility of him serving a second term could have been prevented had the Senate voted to convict on either impeachment, particularly the second.
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All the lawyers I know think these charges are strong and will likely be very difficult for trump to evade.

I work with some of the best lawyers in the world. Some were previously federal prosecutors.

What’s happening is that the press is nuts and tv lawyers are not always the best lawyers.
 
Citysnaps said:
Cmaier... are there any potential legal consequences with respect to the above. Sure smells like an attempt to intimidate.
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there could be. Arguably there could be charges for obstruction, but the posts are likely to be deemed protected under the first amendment. At some point the judge may issue a gag order, but the above individuals aren’t under his jurisdiction so they wouldn’t be affected.

Essentially these posts are saying the judge is biased because his daughter knocked on doors for democratic candidates (or whatever she did). That’s protected speech. Posting her picture is intimidating, but doesn’t seem likely to cross a line - yet.

I assume one of these bozos will go too far in the future, though.
 
Cmaier said:
there could be. Arguably there could be charges for obstruction, but the posts are likely to be deemed protected under the first amendment. At some point the judge may issue a gag order, but the above individuals aren’t under his jurisdiction so they wouldn’t be affected.

Essentially these posts are saying the judge is biased because his daughter knocked on doors for democratic candidates (or whatever she did). That’s protected speech. Posting her picture is intimidating, but doesn’t seem likely to cross a line - yet.

I assume one of these bozos will go too far in the future, though.
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Do you think he'll walk in the end or do time? At up to 4 years on each count that's over 100 years in prison, even if he did a fraction of that he would die in prison at his age.
 
Eric said:
Do you think he'll walk in the end or do time? At up to 4 years on each count that's over 100 years in prison, even if he did a fraction of that he would die in prison at his age.
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I think, at worst, the judge would make it 12 years, 4 for each “incident” (doorman, stormy, and the other lady). 4 years is the max for each, and it would be unlikely the judge would give him the full 4. (In other words, if found guilty on all charges, some would be served consecutively since they arose from the same criminal circumstances).

I think that since cohen did time partially for the same events, the judge might think justice requires some jail time. If I had to bet, I would bet the sentence would be 1 year behind bars plus 1 year probation, which would probably result in 6 months actually served, but I’d almost certainly lose that bet. Too many possibilities.
 
Cmaier said:
there could be. Arguably there could be charges for obstruction, but the posts are likely to be deemed protected under the first amendment. At some point the judge may issue a gag order, but the above individuals aren’t under his jurisdiction so they wouldn’t be affected.

Essentially these posts are saying the judge is biased because his daughter knocked on doors for democratic candidates (or whatever she did). That’s protected speech. Posting her picture is intimidating, but doesn’t seem likely to cross a line - yet.

I assume one of these bozos will go too far in the future, though.
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What concerns me is there's probably a few nut jobs out there who will try to (or will) harm him or his daughter. At that point it could be too late. Seems like there should be some legal mechanism or consequence to deter that.

While I do understand the 1st amendment consideration, being able to dogwhistle (I guess that's what you'd call it) like that to inspire the crazies to action, without consequences to the dogwhistler, pisses me off.
 
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GermanSuplex said:
MTG. I knew it would be one of the usual suspects to make that comment. 🙄

“Trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history being arrested today,” she told Glenn in the backseat of her car. Nelson Mandela was arrested, served time in prison. Jesus! Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government. There have been many people throughout history that have been arrested and persecuted by radical, corrupt governments, and it’s beginning today in New York City.”

I was once held two hours after being picked up walking home drunk, and charged with trespassing and criminal trespass. The charges were dropped. I guess I’m worthy of a novel, movie and maybe political office because I spent two hours in county.

But yeah, Trump… no, he’s the REAL hero here.
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My God the amateur manipulator* is comparing Trump with Jesus?? And she probably does not even like Mandela.

*With the MAGA suckers, amateurs can go far...
 
Eric said:
Do you think he'll walk in the end or do time? At up to 4 years on each count that's over 100 years in prison, even if he did a fraction of that he would die in prison at his age.
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I’m a pessimist, we’ll see but I have zero expectations right now. The country has a history of Presidents not being held accountable because of politics. If he somehow is convicted, and does not do years of jail time, I’ll be infuriated.

It makes me wonder that when GOP losers like Green lament Trump being arrested, if she really means it or if it’s just a good show for STUPID back home? :unsure:
 
Citysnaps said:
What concerns me is there's probably a few nut jobs out there who will try to (or will) harm him or his daughter. At that point it could be too late. Seems like there should be some legal mechanism or consequence to deter that.

While I do understand the 1st amendment consideration, being able to dogwhistle (I guess that's what you'd call it) like that to inspire the crazies to action, without consequences to the dogwhistler, pisses me off.
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Agreed, I think it's only a matter of time before someone gets killed as a result of the heated rhetoric.
 

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