Jan 6 Committee Public Hearings

citypix said:
Here's a pretty good essay on what Garland might be weighing in charging trump. From a previous US Assistant Attorney general, and office of legal counsel under Bush:

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Prosecute Trump? Put Yourself in Merrick Garland’s Shoes. (Published 2022)

The attorney general will have to make three decisions, each more difficult than the previous and none with an obvious answer.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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I read this and tend to agree with the author. If Garland concludes that Trump violated Federal statutes and believes there is enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, not proceeding with prosecution would be devastating. It makes me think of Trump's infamous pronouncement that he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters. What would the DOJ do if he pulled out a gun at his next rally and shot at a member of the press, grazing them? Would that be considered more worthy of prosecution than what he's already done, essentially taking direct aim at our democracy?
 
Roller said:
I read this and tend to agree with the author. If Garland concludes that Trump violated Federal statutes and believes there is enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, not proceeding with prosecution would be devastating. It makes me think of Trump's infamous pronouncement that he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters. What would the DOJ do if he pulled out a gun at his next rally and shot at a member of the press, grazing them? Would that be considered more worthy of prosecution than what he's already done, essentially taking direct aim at our democracy?
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My sense is Garland's bar to prosecute will be high. Hopefully all of the evidence and testimony collected over the last year and a half will be sufficient. We're up to 865 arrested and charged from Jan6th. Looking forward to tomorrow's House committee hearing.
 
citypix said:
My sense is Garland's bar to prosecute will be high. Hopefully all of the evidence and testimony collected over the last year and a half will be sufficient. We're up to 865 arrested and charged from Jan6th. Looking forward to tomorrow's House committee hearing.
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Probably a higher bar than any in the history of prosecutions in the U.S., though I'll note that other countries (Italy, France, and Israel come to mind) have indicted and/or prosecuted former leaders. In this country, though, either being voted out of office or impeachment are usually put forth as remedies for presidential malfeasance, though we know how ineffective they've been in Trump's case.

Garland has been widely criticized for being quiet and not showing his cards. But I think that's a good thing in this case. He's clearly aware of all the issues at stake and the need to be meticulous.
 
Roller said:
Garland has been widely criticized for being quiet and not showing his cards. But I think that's a good thing in this case. He's clearly aware of all the issues at stake and the need to be meticulous.
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Especially with trump believing Barr was his personal personal attorney to order around.
 
citypix said:
Especially with trump believing Barr was his personal personal attorney to order around.
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He was... until it went so far that he feared he might do time for it being TOO criminal. How else do you explain his dishonest “summary” of the Mueller Report? Or his appointing of Durham to investigate BS claims about Hillary Clinton? Or, or or....

www.thebulwark.com

Bill Barr Was Worse Than You Thought

The attorney general blustered, fought, and stalled his way through a contentious appearance before Congress.
www.thebulwark.com www.thebulwark.com

So yeah, based on his past actions, I can see why Trump might just think Barr was his personal attorney!

Barr’s not a hero. He’s a piece of crap... just SLIGHTLY less a piece of crap than Trump. I’m not going to give him a pass because he decided a violent overthrow of the government was the one illegal activity that went too far for his taste.
 
SuperMatt said:
He was... until it went so far that he feared he might do time for it being TOO criminal. How else do you explain his dishonest “summary” of the Mueller Report? Or his appointing of Durham to investigate BS claims about Hillary Clinton? Or, or or....

www.thebulwark.com

Bill Barr Was Worse Than You Thought

The attorney general blustered, fought, and stalled his way through a contentious appearance before Congress.
www.thebulwark.com www.thebulwark.com

So yeah, based on his past actions, I can see why Trump might just think Barr was his personal attorney!

Barr’s not a hero. He’s a piece of crap... just SLIGHTLY less a piece of crap than Trump. I’m not going to give him a pass because he decided a violent overthrow of the government was the one illegal activity that went too far for his taste.
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Didn't mean to suggest he didn't end up essentially being trump's personal attorney. The handwriting was on the wall with the "release" of the Mueller report.
 
citypix said:
"and clearly state that Biden is the duly elected president."

Based on his actions on Jan 6th I don't think there's any doubt he believes that.
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He may believe it but millions of Trump's followers don't. It would help immensely if he would make a strong public announcement calling out Trump's Big Lie.

So what is holding him back? Does he want to run for president and he has to count on support from Trump's deplorables? Does he fear being disloyal to the GOP? For heavens sake, an actual insurrection was unleashed by Trump and the mob would have killed Pence had they caught him. That's not enough?
 
mac_in_tosh said:
He may believe it but millions of Trump's followers don't. It would help immensely if he would make a strong public announcement calling out Trump's Big Lie.

So what is holding him back? Does he want to run for president and he has to count on support from Trump's deplorables? Does he fear being disloyal to the GOP? For heavens sake, an actual insurrection was unleashed by Trump and the mob would have killed Pence had they caught him. That's not enough?
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Likely because there's no upside right now.

By law, Pence certified the electoral votes for the election. As has every other VP after a presidential election. Saying anything else at that proceeding would be out of line.

What he chooses to do in the future will no doubt be gamed out by him and his advisors. His choice.
 
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citypix said:
Likely because there's no upside right now.

By law, Pence certified the electoral votes for the election. As has every other VP after a presidential election. Saying anything else at that proceeding would be out of line.

What he chooses to do in the future will no doubt be gamed our by him and his advisors. His choice.
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Yep… challenging the “big lie” means you are kicked out of the GOP in 2022. Pence wasn’t really much of a hero on Jan 6. The testimony showed he consulted many lawyers to see if he was allowed to overturn the results. His refusal to get into the vehicle as directed by the Secret Service might have been about completing his duty. Or it could have been “I’m not getting in a car controlled by the guy encouraging people to lynch me…”

If he had real courage, he would have invoked the 25th amendment.
 
SuperMatt said:
If he had real courage, he would have invoked the 25th amendment.
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Yes. I agree in principal.

But...normally that would be invoked by the inability of the president to serve. Easy to determine if a medical procedure went haywire and resulted in death or incapacitation. Or an assassination.

But in the case of trump, what cause and procedure would be used to force him to resign so the 25th amendment could put Pence in charge (until Inauguration Day, two weeks later)? A declaration by Pence and majority of Cabinet members would be required to start the process. And then, I believe, 2/3rds of Senate and House would need to agree he's unfit, and thus could be removed.

In other words, Pence could get the ball rolling, but to make it happen I believe is out of his hands.

I'm just spitballing on this. I'll defer to others more knowledgeable.
 
citypix said:
Yes. I agree in principal.

But...normally that would be invoked by the inability of the president to serve. Easy to determine if a medical procedure went haywire and resulted in death or incapacitation. Or an assassination.

But in the case of trump, what cause and procedure would be used to force him to resign so the 25th amendment could put Pence in charge (until Inauguration Day, two weeks later)? A declaration by Pence and majority of Cabinet members would be required to start the process. And then, I believe, 2/3rds of Senate and House would need to agree he's unfit, and thus could be removed.

In other words, Pence could get the ball rolling, but to make it happen I believe is out of his hands.

I'm just spitballing on this. I'll defer to others more knowledgeable.
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It is very convoluted. But I think at the minimum it takes the President out of his office for 4 days, even if he insists he is capable. If they stretched it out a bit, they could have taken away all his power for the rest of the term.
 
citypix said:
Yes. I agree in principal.

But...normally that would be invoked by the inability of the president to serve. Easy to determine if a medical procedure went haywire and resulted in death or incapacitation. Or an assassination.

But in the case of trump, what cause and procedure would be used to force him to resign so the 25th amendment could put Pence in charge (until Inauguration Day, two weeks later)? A declaration by Pence and majority of Cabinet members would be required to start the process. And then, I believe, 2/3rds of Senate and House would need to agree he's unfit, and thus could be removed.

In other words, Pence could get the ball rolling, but to make it happen I believe is out of his hands.

I'm just spitballing on this. I'll defer to others more knowledgeable.
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trump should have had pence be president when he went into the hospital and was knocked out. but of course even then he could not give up power. I guess afraid pence would take over.
 
They are going over all the personal attacks on Republican election officials by the Trump campaign. They are also showing threats on Republican election officials in Pennsylvania and Georgia.

There seems to be a theme here. They are focusing on Republicans that opposed Trump or were being attacked by Trump.

And they played some robo-calls asking people to push for an extra slate of electors from their states.
 
They are now interviewing the Republican Speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, Rusty Bowers, about all the illegal things Trump and Giuliani asked him to do.
 
SuperMatt said:
They are now interviewing the Republican Speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, Rusty Bowers, about all the illegal things Trump and Giuliani asked him to do.
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He’s pretty compelling
 

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