No “Extreme” chip coming to Mac Pro?

[theorist9]

You can stick any PC graphics card into a 2019 Mac Pro and it'll work. During my short stint with one, I tried out a 6800XT from Sonnet, and a 6900XT from Gigabyte, which worked just fine. No MPX needed. Yes, they are significantly cheaper than Apple's prices. The W6600X is about the same price as the 6900XT, at that period in time.

In that case (as @exoticspice1 mentioned), what Apple identifies as the 'most popular Intel Mac Pro configuration' probably won't be what most customers are actually using.

 

[Cmaier]

In that case (as @exoticspice1 mentioned), what Apple identifies as the 'most popular Intel Mac Pro configuration' probably won't be what most customers are actually using.

That may be a reach. It’s hard to know whether “most customers” open the case and upgrade. Most Mac Pros may be sold into corporate settings where it is pretty unusual to upgrade, but they needed the fastest macs possible and the ability to easily swap out parts for identical parts for repairs. We have no way to know.

 

[theorist9]

That may be a reach. It’s hard to know whether “most customers” open the case and upgrade. Most Mac Pros may be sold into corporate settings where it is pretty unusual to upgrade, but they needed the fastest macs possible and the ability to easily swap out parts for identical parts for repairs. We have no way to know.

Yeah, I don't know either. But if it is the case that corporate customers buy the fastest Mac Pros available, and if Ternus really did say (and say correctly) that the most popular GPU option for the Mac Pro is a low-end one, then it would follow that most Mac Pros aren't sold into corporate settings.

 

[Colstan]

Yeah, I don't know either. But if it is the case that corporate customers buy the fastest Mac Pros available, and if Ternus really did say (and say correctly) that the most popular GPU option for the Mac Pro is a low-end one, then it would follow that most Mac Pros aren't sold into corporate settings.

I would say that, if most Mac Pros are being bought by individuals with the intention of buying an aftermarket GPU, then the top selling model would have been either the old 580X or the current 5500X. I don't see a point in paying to upgrade to a 5700XT with a plan to replace it later. It may simply be that the 5700XT is the most attractive option to the market in general. It was also the high-end card for a long while, before AMD's 6000-series were released. Mac Pro sales may have slowed significantly by the time RDNA2 became available. Obviously, Apple has far better data on this than any of us do, and this is all at best a side note in the overall story of the forthcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

 

[Cmaier]

Yeah, I don't know either. But if it is the case that corporate customers buy the fastest Mac Pros available, and if Ternus really did say (and say correctly) that the most popular GPU option for the Mac Pro is a low-end one, then it would follow that most Mac Pros aren't sold into corporate settings.

Why? Lots of people need the fastest CPUs but don’t need the fastest GPUs.

 

[exoticspice1]

That may be a reach. It’s hard to know whether “most customers” open the case and upgrade. Most Mac Pros may be sold into corporate settings where it is pretty unusual to upgrade, but they needed the fastest macs possible and the ability to easily swap out parts for identical parts for repairs. We have no way to know.

This does not make sense at all. So they want to buy the fastest Mac possible but the GPU they buy is a W5500X?

What?

 

[Cmaier]

This does not make sense at all. So they want to buy the fastest Mac possible but the GPU they buy is a W5500X?

What?

Why not? There are lots of people doing things with macs where GPU doesn’t matter. Heck, the guy I know who just bought a $7000 M2 MBP just got it for the CPU and doesn’t care about the GPU. When I was designing chips I only cared about the CPU speed as well. People act like all Mac Pro folks are running GPGPU loads, and that’s certainly not true.

 

[exoticspice1]

I have doubts on Apple being honest about the Mac Pro sales. The W5700X is not powerful nor is a cheap upgrade. If you are already paying $6K for Mac Pro as a company would pay more to the greatest Mac Pro GPU.

Many high end studios would never get the W5700X, it's weak for a workstation card.

For an individual you would get the W5500X/580X and upgrade? I believe most individuals got the base Mac Pro.

People who work with Logic and sorts will do fine with a base Mac Pro but 3D folks will need Vegas or RDNA2 6800/900X.

 

[exoticspice1]

Why not? There are lots of people doing things with macs where GPU doesn’t matter. Heck, the guy I know who just bought a $7000 M2 MBP just got it for the CPU and doesn’t care about the GPU. When I was designing chips I only cared about the CPU speed as well. People act like all Mac Pro folks are running GPGPU loads, and that’s certainly not true.

I know that but that does not explain why the W5700X is the most popular GPU?

With the Mac product line the MacBook Air is the most popular Mac. This makes sense because the it's the cheapest. So shouldn't the 580X or 5500X be the popular GPU then by all accounts and not the 5700X?

Oh well I am gonna stop here, no point digging a hole forever.

 

[Colstan]

I know that but that does not explain why the W5700X is the most popular GPU?

We were all asking the same thing about the 13-inch MacBook Pro that comes with a fan. Why would you want that thing instead of a MacBook Air? Ternus said in a keynote that the it was the second best selling Mac, that's why. It didn't make a lot of sense to us, but it's what Apple's data shows, unless you think he was lying about that, as you suggested about the Mac Pro.

 

[theorist9]

Why? Lots of people need the fastest CPUs but don’t need the fastest GPUs.

Then they're not buying "the fastest Mac Pros available", they're buying the Mac Pros with the fastest CPUs. Based on context, I thought you meant the former, since I thought your point to be that corporate customers wouldn't be opening up the machines to upgrade GPUs, since they'd just buy the top-end GPU to start with. I.e., since we were specifically disucssing GPU's, I thought by "fastest Mac Pros available" you were referring to the GPU (or GPU+CPU) config. But it sounds like that's not what you meant.

 

[Cmaier]

Then they're not buying "the fastest Mac Pros available", they're buying the Mac Pros with the fastest CPUs. Based on context, I thought you meant the former, since I thought your point to be that corporate customers wouldn't be opening up the machines to upgrade GPUs, since they'd just buy the top-end GPU to start with. I.e., since we were specifically disucssing GPU's, I thought by "fastest Mac Pros available" you were referring to the GPU (or GPU+CPU) config. But it sounds like that's not what you meant.

Primary speed benefit of the mac pro form factor has been multi core cpu performance for quite awhile. If you need fast gpus you could use thunderbolt enclosures, but a thunderbolt enclosure isn’t going to give you a couple dozen cpu cores. So that’s what I was referring to - people who need fast CPUs, lots of ram.

 

[theorist9]

Obviously, Apple has far better data on this than any of us do, and this is all at best a side note in the overall story of the forthcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

Acknowledged, I'm attempting to read tea leaves here (maybe a bad analogy, since it's about the past rather than the future), and there's a point at which that becomes a fruitless exercise. At the same time, I think it's still interesting and fun to consider the distribution of GPU needs among Mac Pro buyers, as that guides what Apple will be doing with the AS Mac Pro.

Also, as a point of interest, there is at least one entity outside of Apple that might have good data on this: B&H, which may be their largest US reseller of Mac Pros.

 

[B01L]

That could certainly be the case with RAM, particularly for creatives who have small shops and are thus price-sensitive. But for GPU upgrades, doesn't the Intel Mac Pro require them to be in MPX modules and, if so, are they really that much less expensive aftermarket than equipping them at the time of purchase?

Or once you have the MPX module for a lower-end GPU, can you just swap out its GPU for a higher-end non-MPX model (re-using the MPX container)?

There is no "MPX container", an Apple/AMD MPX GPU is a custom GPU, you want to replace your current MPX GPU you pull the whole thing and slot another in place, just like any other GPU...

 

[exoticspice1]

The SoC method does not make sense with the Mac Pro as it always stood for modularity(Yes even the 6,1 had upgradeable CPU and RAM).

With the current Mac Pro users can max out what they want specifically. With the rumoured Mac Pro only it seems nothing is replaceable but the SSDs.

Yes it may have PCIe slots which are good for audio folks and not the 3D render crowd. You have to get the highest config now to get the most amount of RAM, CPU and GPU. Seems like a waste to me if a user has no need for it.

Honestly whats the point of the Mac Pro then but paying extra just for PCIe slots which may or may not have AMD/Nvidia(through Linux) support.

The Mac Studio is looking more and more bang for the buck even in the ultra high end.

 

[ArgoDuck]

^ Hmm…but then what’s the point of piling speculation upon speculation? I guess we‘ll see whether the SoC Mac Pro has a point when it appears. This thread strikes me (‘…no "extreme"…’, a version that may only have existed in Gurman’s fantasies) as writing the obituary before the birth!

I do agree that Mac Studio is bang for buck

 

[B01L]

Yes it may have PCIe slots which are good for audio folks and not the 3D render crowd. You have to get the highest config now to get the most amount of RAM, CPU and GPU. Seems like a waste to me if a user has no need for it.

PCIe slots are also good for video I/O cards (like the Blackmagic 8K), M.2-based RAID storage cards (OWC has a 64TB model), high-speed networking cards, and (possibly) Apple silicon GPGPUs...

Sure, the display output would be from the "iGPU" in the SoC, but one or two ASi GPGPUs should handle render jobs just fine while one continues working from the SoC...

 

[Citysnaps]

PCIe slots are also good for video I/O cards (like the Blackmagic 8K), M.2-based RAID storage cards (OWC has a 64TB model), high-speed networking cards, and (possibly) Apple silicon GPGPUs...

And good for many other kinds of cards useful in scientific, industrial, research, defense/aerospace, etc. applications. I'm assuming there will be a rack mount version (not just rack mount ears) like there was with the previous Mac Pro.

 

[Cmaier]

And good for many other kinds of cards useful in scientific, industrial, research, defense/aerospace, etc. applications. I'm assuming there will be a rack mount version (not just rack mount ears) like there was with the previous Mac Pro.

I don’t think there will be a rack mount version.

 

[Citysnaps]

I don’t think there will be a rack mount version.

Why not? IMO, that would be a huge mistake.

It's interesting Apple still sells the previous rack mount version.

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