Russia-Ukraine

[yaxomoxay]

In the US it’s starting to get to the point where you already have to be rich just to run and win…or be bat shit high on conspiracies. In either case that doesn’t really qualify you to be in touch with the concerns of the common citizen.

True. On the other hand, electors want people with a perfect pedigree which started in elementary school. This is true even at local level.

“MIT graduate, with law and med doctorate at Harvard. Retired US Marine general, wounded veteran. Business owner, Amazon co-founder. Perfect family, and of course philanthropist. Running for City Council.” or stuff like that. All that stuff requires money, let alone running the campaign.

This is also why:
a) Despite my disagreements with AOC, I truly hate when she’s referred to as a bartender by people on the right, in an attempt to diminish her. As long as she worked honestly, it’s nothing shameful.
b) I truly can’t stand that people go into gossipy stuff during the presidential elections, or high stake elections. My disdain for the concept of the First Lady/Gentleman (by US standards) is well known.

 

[Arkitect]

No, I suppose that I am talking enough for a "good middle class" (which, in the UK, means upper middle class) life.

I would think at 3 times the average national wage they are there…

And, on links between money and power - and returing to Ukraine - the links between the Tory Party and Russian oligarchic monies really is very unsavoury.

I truly hope this is the death knell of the Tories and the Oligarchs…

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Yikes!
I find this a very frightening picture.
The banality of evil?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

People like Medea Benjamin (since we're talking about Salon in particular) write articles that are basically a carbon copy of the Kremlin's talking points.
I'm definitely not saying that Western countries are blameless, but Salon is often an outlet for well-meaning idiots who will always blame NATO/the West/the US/the EU for everything wrong in the world and look the other way when their guys commit war crimes.

By "their guys" I can only assume you mean Obama? I wasn't really a Salon reader back then, but I agree in general the left tends to fall asleep when their guy is at the helm and so does their media, at least prior to Trump. All kinds of shit gets a pass because their guy did it with a hug and a smile instead of with a middle finger.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I would think at 3 times the average national wage they are there…


I truly hope this is the death knell of the Tories and the Oligarchs…

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​

Yikes!
I find this a very frightening picture.
The banality of evil?

No, that one comes from the pages of "grandiose delusions fuelled by evil".

And "evil" is not a word I use lightly.

The "banality of evil", and what a brilliant and evocative phrase - and I was introduced to the writings of Hannah Arendt by my professor of political philosophy, a wonderfully wise, sardonic, Scots Presbyterian with a strong social conscience, who revered her - is more chilling still, precisely because it is so ordinary, so boring, so banal, so relatable.

 

[yaxomoxay]

No, that one comes from the pages of "grandiose delusions fuelled by evil".

And "evil" is not a word I use lightly.

The "banality of evil", and what a brilliant and evocative phrase - and I was introduced to the writings of Hannah Arendt by my professor of political philosophy, a wonderfully wise, sardonic, Scots Presbyterian with a strong social conscience, who revered her - is more chilling still, precisely because it is so ordinary, so boring, so banal, so relatable.

No, that one comes from the pages of "grandiose delusions fuelled by evil".

And "evil" is not a word I use lightly.

The "banality of evil", and what a brilliant and evocative phrase - and I was introduced to the writings of Hannah Arendt by my professor of political philosophy, a wonderfully wise, sardonic, Scots Presbyterian with a strong social conscience, who revered her - is more chilling still, precisely because it is so ordinary, so boring, so banal, so relatable.

For a second I read that you studied under Hannah Arendt and my brain went in full intellectual excitement mode!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

For a second I read that you studied under Hannah Arendt and my brain went in full intellectual excitement mode!

If only.

However, I believe that my professor (who died in 2012, a lovely, gentle, witty and wise man, - I both respected him, admired him and liked him enormously, he was an incredibly encouraging and supportive teacher, and his classes were brilliant - I attended his funeral in a characteristically austere and severe chapel, but the service was lovely) had studied at one time under Karl Popper.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Terrifying Putin Phone Call Warns ‘Worst Is Yet to Come’

French President Emmanuel Macron says the Russian president told him he will fight “until the end” as those close to him start to panic.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[MarkusL]

Yikes!
I find this a very frightening picture.
The banality of evil?

Since we are trying to give each other nightmares, did anyone already mention that the International Space Station needs a boost of its orbit so it doesn't come crashing down in some random location... and that there are only two people who can do it?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

From David Aaronovitch (@DAaronovitch) on Twitter - @Arkitect will like this, because so apt and so true: "I’m beginning to confuse the honours list and the sanctions list. But I suppose it doesn’t matter."

 

[Arkitect]

From David Aaronovitch (@DAaronovitch) on Twitter - @Arkitect will like this, because so apt and so true: "I’m beginning to confuse the honours list and the sanctions list. But I suppose it doesn’t matter."

Perfect! Just perfect!
Sums up my feelings 100%

 

[Deleted member 215]

By "their guys" I can only assume you mean Obama? I wasn't really a Salon reader back then, but I agree in general the left tends to fall asleep when their guy is at the helm and so does their media, at least prior to Trump. All kinds of shit gets a pass because their guy did it with a hug and a smile instead of with a middle finger.

Yeahhhh...not really seeing how Putin is a leftist.

It's true that the left (I mean the actual left, not centrist neoliberals) often blames the West for everything, but the right and center (including neolibs/cons) make excuses for the West for everything.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[SuperMatt]

True. On the other hand, electors want people with a perfect pedigree which started in elementary school. This is true even at local level.

Maybe this is a question for another thread, but Trump was the exact opposite of this. The exception that proves the rule? Or is the “rule” not really true?

 

[yaxomoxay]

Maybe this is a question for another thread, but Trump was the exact opposite of this. The exception that proves the rule? Or is the “rule” not really true?

I disagree. As in, you’re right that he wasn’t the classical candidate, as in someone groomed for politics, but he still had to be the “successful” rich dude, with a good looking family etc, with a degree etc.

His main difference is that he didn’t hide his ego, revealing quite easily that he was a bad person in his personal life. But in general the concept didn’t change.

On the other side we also had another… not liked person, named Hillary Clinton.

Addendum: and honestly I have enough of all those mailers with photos of the candidate’s perfect family. No, I do not give a crap about your hot/photoshopped wife/husband and your almost identical kids.

 

[SuperMatt]

I disagree. As in, you’re right that he wasn’t the classical candidate, as in someone groomed for politics, but he still had to be the “successful” rich dude, with a good looking family etc, with a degree etc.

His main difference is that he didn’t hide his ego, revealing quite easily that he was a bad person in his personal life. But in general the concept didn’t change.

On the other side we also had another… not liked person, named Hillary Clinton.

I guess cheating on your wife with porn stars, multiple divorces, etc. is SOMEBODY’s definition of a “perfect pedigree“? Any ONE of those things, or bragging about grabbing women by the pussy or calling Mexicans rapists, would have disqualified most candidates in the past. Sorry… not buying the idea that Trump had a perfect pedigree by anybody’s definition. It seems like you’re trying to jam a round peg into a square hole to keep your concept going.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I guess cheating on your wife with porn stars, multiple divorces, etc. is SOMEBODY’s definition of a “perfect pedigree“? Any ONE of those things, or bragging about grabbing women by the pussy or calling Mexicans rapists, would have disqualified most candidates in the past. Sorry… not buying the idea that Trump had a perfect pedigree by anybody’s definition. It seems like you’re trying to jam a round peg into a square hole to keep your concept going.

No. On the perfect pedigree, you are right. He was an exception.

But what he did, he had to do with lots of money (which is the point of the initial reply). So yes, he was successful as an entrepreneur, and he did use his family (esp. his kids) to show “success”.

But even Trump doesn’t change the initial point: most voters want the “perfect pedigree”, which usually involves lots of money, which is what I was replying to.

 

[Zoidberg]

Yeahhhh...not really seeing how Putin is a leftist.

It's true that the left (I mean the actual left, not centrist neoliberals) often blames the West for everything, but the right and center (including neolibs/cons) make excuses for the West for everything.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I'm glad you mention this. Because the far left is often pro-Putin, just like how poor Americans often thought that Trump was "just like them". Yes, I know it doesn't make any sense, but they are totally invested in the anti-West sentiment. This is true at least in Southern Europe and in Latin America. Far left, in this context means not progressive, but anticapitalist or even openly communist. Hell, I know people who idolise Stalin (!).

They always start "Yes, he's a homophobe, but.... " and then they spit out every single Russian talking point against NATO, the US and the EU. Never a word about his 22 years in power, his incestuous relationship with the billionaire oligarchs mafia, human rights abuse... For them it boils down to he's against the West = he's good. Just look at the recent EU resolutions against Russia and you'll find both far Right and far Left MEPs abstaining from voting (which is basically a "yes, go ahead, I'll look away" in diplomacy)

You might not realise it, but modern Russian propaganda has been hard at work for about fifteen years, they have had plenty of time to build their discourse, find allies, extend their network into academia...

(And I say that as someone who by most standards could be considered a leftie, for the record)

However, I'm glad to say I just read 20 minutes ago that RT US is rumoured to be about to shut down. I guess with the last round of sanctions now in place it's too expensive to maintain and they don't see the point in keeping it.

 

[SuperMatt]

I'm glad you mention this. Because the far left is often pro-Putin, just like how many poor Americans thought that Trump was "just like them". Yes, I know it doesn't make any sense, but they are totally invested in the anti-West sentiment. This is true at least in Southern Europe and in Latin America. Far left, in this context means not progressive, but anticapitalist or even openly communist. Hell, I know people who idolise Stalin (!).

They always start "Yes, he's a homophobe, but.... " and then they spit out every single Russian talking point against NATO, the US and the EU. Never a word about his 22 years in power, his incestuous relationship with billionaire oligarchs, human rights abuse... For them it boils down to he's against the West = he's good. Just look at the recent EU resolutions against Russia and you'll find both far Right and far Left MEPs abstaining from voting (which is basically a "yes, go ahead, I'll look away" in diplomacy)

You might not realise it, but modern Russian propaganda has been hard at work for about fifteen years, they have had plenty of time to build their discourse, find allies, extend their network into academia...

(And I say that as someone who by most standards could be considered a leftie, for the record)

However, I'm glad to say I just read 20 minutes ago that RT US is rumoured to be about to shut down. I guess with the last round of sanctions now in place it's too expensive to maintain and they don't see the point in keeping it.

I think the invasion of Ukraine has undone all the work done by Russian propaganda.

 

[Thomas Veil]

This is just sad all around…

Video Appears to Show Russian Soldier in Tears as He's Fed by Ukrainians and Allowed to Call Home — People

“Everything is fine, son” a woman says in the unverified viral video, which has been viewed millions of times — underlining Ukraine's larger efforts to build support even with Russian fighters

apple.news

"Our soldiers, our border guards, our territorial defense, even simple farmers are capturing Russian soldiers every day, and all of them are saying the same thing: They don't know why they are here,'' he said, according to The New York Times. "These are not warriors of a superpower. These are confused children who have been used."

In one case…

The tearful soldier, dressed in camouflage fatigues, is seen in the footage eating and sipping tea as a young woman with purple hair holds up a phone so he can apparently speak with his mother back home in Russia.

"The post says he burst into tears when he was allowed to video-call his mother. So many of these troops are just teenagers, with absolutely no clue what this war is really for."

 

[Deleted member 215]

I'm glad you mention this. Because the far left is often pro-Putin, just like how many poor Americans thought that Trump was "just like them". Yes, I know it doesn't make any sense, but they are totally invested in the anti-West sentiment. This is true at least in Southern Europe and in Latin America. Far left, in this context means not progressive, but anticapitalist or even openly communist. Hell, I know people who idolise Stalin (!).

They always start "Yes, he's a homophobe, but.... " and then they spit out every single Russian talking point against NATO, the US and the EU. Never a word about his 22 years in power, his incestuous relationship with billionaire oligarchs, human rights abuse... For them it boils down to he's against the West = he's good. Just look at the recent EU resolutions against Russia and you'll find both far Right and far Left MEPs abstaining from voting (which is basically a "yes, go ahead, I'll look away" in diplomacy)

You might not realise it, but modern Russian propaganda has been hard at work for about fifteen years, they have had plenty of time to build their discourse, find allies, extend their network into academia...

(And I say that as someone who by most standards could be considered a leftie, for the record)

However, I'm glad to say I just read 20 minutes ago that RT US is rumoured to be about to shut down. I guess with the last round of sanctions now in place it's too expensive to maintain and they don't see the point in keeping it.

That is news to me. I’ve never met a leftist who is pro-Putin and I live in Commiefornia. The only people I’ve encountered defending Putin in the US are the authoritarian far right, who see Putin as a noble warrior fighting the Jewish globalist new world order. But I imagine the far left in America differs somewhat from the far left in Europe or Latin America.

 

[Zoidberg]

I think the invasion of Ukraine has undone all the work done by Russian propaganda.

For some, maybe, but for most who are that far gone, "iT's aLL beCAuse oF NATO becuAse thEY're EXPANDING!!!!!!"