Sexuality Has Gotten Complicated

[Deleted member 215]

It says more about you than it does about LGBT people that you seem to think any discussion of the LGBT community or LGBT issues is blaming "straight white males". Did Huntn blame anybody in his original post? Did anyone who responded go on a rant about "straight white males"? But of course, this an established and familiar pattern. Any discussion about race or sexuality or any marginalized group eventually becomes "straight white males are the real victims".

Hard pass.

 

[Deleted member 199]

It says more about you than it does about LGBT people that you seem to think any discussion of the LGBT community or LGBT issues is blaming "straight white males". Did Huntn blame anybody in his original post? Did anyone who responded go on a rant about "straight white males"? But of course, this an established and familiar pattern. Any discussion about race or sexuality or any marginalized group eventually becomes "straight white males are the real victims".

Hard pass.

not at all what I said but you do you.

 

[User.191]

but there’s plenty of times when it’s not that, where it’s just any excuse - regardless of context or the actual topic being discussed - to “attack” the big bad straight white guy because some other straight white guys did something fucked up so we’re obviously all out to get anyone who isn’t a straight white guy.

Now, pivot this on the head. As a straight white guy you‘re pretty much at their top of the tree when it comes to avoiding discrimination.

The people you’re complaining about are near the bottom. They are discriminated against by a significant part of society. Religions from Christianity to Islam like to make their lives a misery. Right wing politicians want to legislate them out of existence. And when it comes to transgender people, there are even many in the LGB community who want nothing to do with them.

Now - who’s got it bad here? You, the straight white guy who’s at the top of the pack? Ot the LGB folk - especially the T’s who are near the bottom?

Sorry, but your feelings being hurt are not that important to be quite honest. You can recover easily - LGBT folk not so.

I lost a job just because I’m trans. I was a shoe in for a job which vanished one day after I submitted my details to HR for a background check.

And I’m very lucky that that’s the worst that’s happened to me. I’ve had it easy.

So rather than bemoaning how bad it is for you, think of how bad it is for the others.

 

[Deleted member 215]

not at all what I said but you do you.

Then why even bring up "blaming straight white males"? Why do you assume that's what a discussion of the LGBT community or LGBT issues must consist of? No one in this thread was doing that.

 

[Deleted member 199]

Now - who’s got it bad here? You, the straight white guy who’s at the top of the pack? Ot the LGB folk - especially the T’s who are near the bottom?

This is what I’m talking about.

Other people who are vaguely similar to me treat you like shit so it’s fine to just ignore when people judge everyone the same?

Plenty of straight white guys support you living your life, try to point out the fallacy when people make ridiculous generalisations.

the mere mention of the (presumably) small number of very loud trans or gay people who will take any excuse to blame straight white guys, and you can’t help yourself finding a way for it to be someone else’s fault.

sometimes people are just assholes, irrespective of their gender or sexuality.

 

[User.191]

Other people who are vaguely similar to me treat you like shit so it’s fine to just ignore when people judge everyone the same?

You can just get your feelings hurt. LGBT people are dead due to their status.

I've twice attempted suicide due to being who I am. Once was when a straight white couple "read" me and proceeded to call me out to everyone in a shop. That night I stuffed my face with a collection of pills and ended up having my stomach pumped out in A&E at 3 in the morning.

Listen, I get you have no issues with us, but please don't think for one instant that gives you some sort of bonus points simply because you're a rational human being.

No, it simply means you're a good person - and good people don't win prizes when compared to bad people.

I've been very relaxed here in this thread so far because up until now people have been interested in learning.

So please, focus on the topic and not victim blaming.

 

[Yoused]

... to “attack” the big bad straight white guy because some other straight white guys did something fucked up so we’re obviously all out to get anyone who isn’t ...

You know what? Anyone can call my ethnicity fairly closely by looking at me. Fewer than a dozen can attest to my sexual behavior. Almost no one knows for sure unless they have done diddly with me.

Because, I do not go around beating my chest over how macho I am, nor flicking my wrist about how feminine I am, or otherwise announcing or advertising my sexuality to others. If they are interested or curious, they will figure it out, or ask me (and probably get a coy, evasive response).

In other words, no one views me as "the Oppressor" because I do not go around being that person. I meet people on the dry ground of no-assumptions and we find out whether or not we get along. IMHO, living your life like you are covered in bumper stickers is a recipe for pushing away people that you might actually get along with.

 

[SuperMatt]

I’m sure that’s some of it.

but there’s plenty of times when it’s not that, where it’s just any excuse - regardless of context or the actual topic being discussed - to “attack” the big bad straight white guy because some other straight white guys did something fucked up so we’re obviously all out to get anyone who isn’t a straight white guy.



Try to understand what? If someone is just going to make it their mission to blame me for life’s problems straight off the bat because I’m a straight white male, that’s unrelated to me “understanding” anything besides the fact that some people will be shitty for the sake of being shitty.

To be honest I don’t really care what’s in your pants or whether it was there when you were born or who you touch with it or touches it, or which bathroom you use it in.

That’s not to say I don’t care what you have to say. It’s more that the vast majority of the time, I don’t think the aforementioned contents/activities/history of your (or anyone’s) crotch is relevant to the topic.


Please re-read what I read and the meaning of “can of worms”.

I never said it can’t be understood. I implied with the picture and then directly mentioned in the follow up that it’s difficult to discuss.

That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be discussed or can’t be. It’s just acknowledging that it’s a difficult topic for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.


I absolutely understand that a lot of shitty things have been done to this community and I sympathise. I’m genuinely glad that society is generally becoming more accepting.

I’m just not keen to be told everything bad that’s happened to a group of people is “my fault”.

The only reason I originally commented - maybe I’m the weird one - I don’t “get” the point of the original question. People are attracted to who they’re attracted to; what does it matter why? Same thing applies to the “gayness is genetic”. Who cares if it’s a choice? Just let people be themselves. I don’t remember seeing people analysing the reasons for people to be chubby chasers, and in 10 years I’ve never once been asked why I married an asian girl.

Anyway. I’m not trying to disrupt this, so carry on.

This is basically what all the anti-CRT people are saying. "Stop ‘attacking' the poor white people by telling them the truth about the bad stuff other white people did."

 

[User.45]

If one looks back to beyond the European invasion to the American colonies, you'll find many native American tribes were very open an accepting to both gender preference and identity.

The only reason we have this hangup now is because certain other religions preach such things as being 'evil'.

Same thing happened in Africa. Yorubas (one of the largest tribes in Africa) have a bunch of androgyne deities and some recent review of Christian mission landings seems to indicate increased homophobia and intolerance in the vicinity.

 

[Deleted member 215]

Well that’s the end of that I guess. This site has strict rules. I hope I don’t get banned for arguing

 

[Pumbaa]

Well that’s the end of that I guess. This site has strict rules. I hope I don’t get banned for arguing

If you’re referring to our beloved Deleted member 199, that wasn’t a ban but a request from the (now former) member. Argue on!

 

[Renzatic]

As far as I know, there have only been two people permenantly banned from this forum.

I'm one of them.

 

[Eric]

Well that’s the end of that I guess. This site has strict rules. I hope I don’t get banned for arguing

Yep, while we won't go into specifics in public this was done by request.

@Renzatic you can change your own title now buddy, maybe Hella Banned would be good?

 

[Renzatic]

@Renzatic you can change your own title now buddy, maybe Hella Banned would be good?

Nah. It's fine the way it is.

 

[Huntn]

You’re asking why a topic about something heterosexual male born men are quite commonly told they’ll “never understand what it’s like” is difficult to discuss and will likely result in a negative result?

Definition: A can of worms is a situation or subject that is very complicated, difficult or unpleasant to deal with or discuss.

My reason for asking why is to understand where the person who said it is coming from. When I think of a can of worms I tend view it as a negative term often associated with human failings incompetence, corruption, some failure of human ideals that leads to conflict, and tragedy. Human sexuality is none of those.

So even though LGBTQIA+ appears to be complicated, and is difficult and unpleasant for some people to deal with, my opinion that for this case, can of worms is an overly negative term that likely reveals and projects the prejudices of the person saying it along with resistance to accepting a reality that does not fit in with a simplistic, uninformed, prejudicial, unsympathetic, and unwillingness to accept the complicated nature of human sexuality and psychology.

I‘ve got a niece* transitioning and neither I, nor her or her immediate family would appreciate her situation described as a can of worms. I find it very fortunate that as a society that trans individuals who find themselves in a situation not of their choosing can find a remedy and sympathy from those around them, not vitriol.
*her used for consistency In this post. The end result she will be a he and has changed her name to a male name.

 

[thekev]

Nah. It's fine the way it is.

I feel like mine should be...

Wanted: a nice quiet monastery where kev can hide

 

[Herdfan]

If you’re referring to our beloved Deleted member 199, that wasn’t a ban but a request from the (now former) member. Argue on!

Well hell. Who left is going to insult me for no good reason. Don't want me feeling too comfortable.

 

[Herdfan]

Also if Q = Questioning,

Wait, what? I always thought the Q was Queer. Although not really sure what that means either these days. Growing up it was a slur for a gay male.

 

[User.191]

Well hell. Who left is going to insult me for no good reason. Don't want me feeling too comfortable.

I’ll step up to that plate if no-one else will.

 

[User.191]

Wait, what? I always thought the Q was Queer. Although not really sure what that means either these days. Growing up it was a slur for a gay male.

If it’s any consolation, i’m a gay trans woman and *I* thought it was Queer as well for a while…. The someone else told me it was “Questioning” then I was told by another it was “Queer” and now…

Yeah, it’s that confusing.