Sexuality Has Gotten Complicated

[Huntn]

If one looks back to beyond the European invasion to the American colonies, you'll find many native American tribes were very open an accepting to both gender preference and identity.

The only reason we have this hangup now is because certain other religions preach such things as being 'evil'.

Ironic and a good example where Christians put a lot of words and meanings into Jesus’s mouth as per what the Bible says. Of course all of that was the writings of men acting as mouth pieces for their imagined God*, with their personal standards assigned, but even so I don’t remember Jesus having a position on LGB, and don’t know if T was even a thing way back then.

* Happy to talk more about that here:
Thread 'Let’s Talk Religion and Faith'
https://talkedabout.com/threads/let’s-talk-religion-and-faith.401/

 

[Huntn]

If it’s any consolation, i’m a gay trans woman and *I* thought it was Queer as well for a while…. The someone else told me it was “Questioning” then I was told by another it was “Queer” and now…

Yeah, it’s that confusing.

From post 1:

What Does LGBTQIA+ Stand For? Full Abbreviation And Other Terms Explained

What does LGBTQIA+ stand for? Find out the LGBTQIA+ meaning including lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and intersexual.

abbreviations.yourdictionary.com

…queer, questioning

 

[DT]

Now, pivot this on the head. As a straight white guy you‘re pretty much at their top of the tree when it comes to avoiding discrimination.

I kind of hate to quote LCK, but he had a bit:

"I'm not saying white people are better, I'm saying being white is better ... here’s how great it is to be white: I can get in a time machine and go to any time, and it would be f***ing awesome when I get there! That is exclusively a white privilege."

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The excellent writer John Scalzi wrote a superb blog post (in 2012) entitled "Straight White Male - The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is" (and yes, he admits that he has omitted social class - which is another factor that also matters in this discussion) - which is a superlative - intelligent, insightful, hilarious, and thought-provoking - treatment of this subject matter.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The excellent writer John Scalzi wrote a superb blog post (in 2012) entitled "Straight White Male - The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is" (and yes, he admits that he has omitted social class - which is another factor that also matters in this discussion) - which is a superlative - intelligent, insightful, hilarious, and thought-provoking - treatment of this subject matter.

Not just because I happen to be one, but in defense of my people literally everybody who is outside the group has pulled up their barstool to the grievance bar to hail down complaint missives. It can feel a bit much even for those of us who feel some valid points are being made. Attempted allies get instantly thrown in the same fire or are accused of being helpless brainwashed victims. It’s like being a mall Santa but instead of people telling you what they want for Christmas they’re queuing to tell you, you are guilty of something or benefitting from something they aren’t. That’s a long day.

Having said that, I’ve said previously it’s still nowhere near what people outside my group have experienced for centuries and certainly not as potentially deadly.

 

[Renzatic]

Not just because I happen to be one, but in defense of my people literally everybody who is outside the group has pulled up their barstool to the grievance bar to hail down complaint missives.

As another proud member of the tribe, I've never had anyone accuse me of much of anything based upon my race, color, or sexual orientation.

...well, I did have someone call me "basic" once, which kinda hurt. Though it hurt because it's true!

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

As another proud member of the tribe, I've never had anyone accuse me of much of anything based upon my race, color, or sexual orientation.

...well, I did have someone call me "basic" once, which kinda hurt. Though it hurt because it's true!

Agreed. I think in a lot of cases it's like people who are extremely concerned about terrorism even though they've never met a Muslim and live in a town that wouldn't be worth the effort to attack.

 

[Renzatic]

Agreed. I think in a lot of cases it's like people who are extremely concerned about terrorism even though they've never met a Muslim and live in a town that wouldn't be worth the effort to attack.

To me, it's all a case of people trying to negate actual victimhood with perceived victimhood. Go into any trans bathroom rights threads on Facebook, and you're guaranteed to see at least 10 people whine about how much they've suffered now that it's supposedly a crime to be a straight white Christian male.

It's a fairly common tactic these days for one side to take what the other is saying, and repurpose it against them. Remember when Trump Derangement Syndrome was an insult against the hardcore Trump supporters? See how "my body, my choice" is more about not wearing a mask or getting a vaccine than it is about being pro-choice? How #metoo is openly derided, yet brought up every time a Democrat finds themselves being accused of sexual harassment? Straight white male victimhood is simply a way to deflect from other issues. An attempt to weaponize one side's opinion against them.

 

[thekev]

The excellent writer John Scalzi wrote a superb blog post (in 2012) entitled "Straight White Male - The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is" (and yes, he admits that he has omitted social class - which is another factor that also matters in this discussion) - which is a superlative - intelligent, insightful, hilarious, and thought-provoking - treatment of this subject matter.

Blog is here.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

I get the narrative presented, but he doesn't really offer much depth beyond the initial commentary. At least in the more liberal states in the US, "Straight White Female" seems to overtake them in a lot of areas. We have a lot of women's scholarships and young women statistically do graduate at a higher rate. The statistics themselves don't tell you what drives those results, and I'm not going to speculate on that, because I really don't know.

I seem to remember statistics split by race still favoring in this area Caucasian women to some degree over other races, but I can't seem to find them so I may be incorrect there.

Poor Girls Are Leaving Their Brothers Behind

As a college education becomes increasingly important in today’s economy, it’s girls, not boys, who are succeeding in school. The gap is exacerbated in low-income families.

www.theatlantic.com

New Report Says Women Will Soon Be Majority Of College-Educated U.S. Workers

This year women who graduated from college will likely make up a majority of adults with degrees in the U.S. labor force. The increase could signal greater earning potential for women in the future.

www.npr.org

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

To me, it's all a case of people trying to negate actual victimhood with perceived victimhood. Go into any trans bathroom rights threads on Facebook, and you're guaranteed to see at least 10 people whine about how much they've suffered now that it's supposedly a crime to be a straight white Christian male.

It's a fairly common tactic these days for one side to take what the other is saying, and repurpose it against them. Remember when Trump Derangement Syndrome was an insult against the hardcore Trump supporters? See how "my body, my choice" is more about not wearing a mask or getting a vaccine than it is about being pro-choice? How #metoo is openly derided, yet brought up every time a Democrat finds themselves being accused of sexual harassment? Straight white male victimhood is simply a way to deflect from other issues. An attempt to weaponize one side's opinion against them.

It's also an overinflated sense of self-importance and connection, like fear of getting canceled when they aren't under threat or worth canceling. It's the whole "if it could happen to them, then...." mentality. It actually astounds me to think that a celebrity (by whatever definition that is now) has any impact on anybody's actions or feelings, but I'm also a lot older now than when that might have had more of an impact and social media didn't exist back then.

 

[User.45]

Blog is here.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

I get the narrative presented, but he doesn't really offer much depth beyond the initial commentary. At least in the more liberal states in the US, "Straight White Female" seems to overtake them in a lot of areas. We have a lot of women's scholarships and young women statistically do graduate at a higher rate. The statistics themselves don't tell you what drives those results, and I'm not going to speculate on that, because I really don't know.

I seem to remember statistics split by race still favoring in this area Caucasian women to some degree over other races, but I can't seem to find them so I may be incorrect there.

Poor Girls Are Leaving Their Brothers Behind

As a college education becomes increasingly important in today’s economy, it’s girls, not boys, who are succeeding in school. The gap is exacerbated in low-income families.

www.theatlantic.com

New Report Says Women Will Soon Be Majority Of College-Educated U.S. Workers

This year women who graduated from college will likely make up a majority of adults with degrees in the U.S. labor force. The increase could signal greater earning potential for women in the future.

www.npr.org

Males have a 30% higher dropout rate. I consider a lot of it a matter of postpubertal temperament differences.

 

[SuperMatt]

Blog is here.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

I get the narrative presented, but he doesn't really offer much depth beyond the initial commentary. At least in the more liberal states in the US, "Straight White Female" seems to overtake them in a lot of areas. We have a lot of women's scholarships and young women statistically do graduate at a higher rate. The statistics themselves don't tell you what drives those results, and I'm not going to speculate on that, because I really don't know.

I seem to remember statistics split by race still favoring in this area Caucasian women to some degree over other races, but I can't seem to find them so I may be incorrect there.

Poor Girls Are Leaving Their Brothers Behind

As a college education becomes increasingly important in today’s economy, it’s girls, not boys, who are succeeding in school. The gap is exacerbated in low-income families.

www.theatlantic.com

New Report Says Women Will Soon Be Majority Of College-Educated U.S. Workers

This year women who graduated from college will likely make up a majority of adults with degrees in the U.S. labor force. The increase could signal greater earning potential for women in the future.

www.npr.org

Yeah they have done better in education for quite a while, but men are beating them in pay. That tells me that gender bias is pretty heavy in hiring and salary offers and raises.

 

[User.45]

Yeah they have done better in education for quite a while, but men are beating them in pay. That tells me that gender bias is pretty heavy in hiring and salary offers and raises.

Without diving into the data, STEM pays better and that's where the gender distribution differences are most remarkable

 

[thekev]

Yeah they have done better in education for quite a while, but men are beating them in pay. That tells me that gender bias is pretty heavy in hiring and salary offers and raises.

It doesn't start out that way. It aligns pretty sharply with the point where a lot of degree-holding women start having kids.

Women in their 20s earn more than men of same age, study finds

Gender pay gap is reversed between ages of 22 and 29, when women are paid on average £1,111 more, but older men then gain greater earning power

www.theguardian.com

Without diving into the data, STEM pays better and that's where the gender distribution differences are most remarkable

Part of it comes down to how you slice STEM. If you include healthcare in there, it's much closer.

STEM Jobs See Uneven Progress in Increasing Gender, Racial and Ethnic Diversity

The higher education pipeline suggests a long path is ahead for increasing diversity, especially in fields like computing and engineering.

www.pewresearch.org

There are a large number of STEM specific scholarships that are restricted to female applicants. Larger tech companies also have programs explicitly geared towards hiring female graduates, although I tend to think they do that to avoid bad PR rather than out of genuine interest.

Males have a 30% higher dropout rate. I consider a lot of it a matter of postpubertal temperament differences.

That is entirely possible. I don't tend to make causal claims without exceptionally strong evidence (thus the reason I almost never make them). I was pointing out that women outpace men when it comes to graduation rates, yet gendered scholarships and recruiting efforts primarily target women.

 

[User.45]

It doesn't start out that way. It aligns pretty sharply with the point where a lot of degree-holding women start having kids.

Women in their 20s earn more than men of same age, study finds

Gender pay gap is reversed between ages of 22 and 29, when women are paid on average £1,111 more, but older men then gain greater earning power

www.theguardian.com

Part of it comes down to how you slice STEM. If you include healthcare in there, it's much closer.

STEM Jobs See Uneven Progress in Increasing Gender, Racial and Ethnic Diversity

The higher education pipeline suggests a long path is ahead for increasing diversity, especially in fields like computing and engineering.

www.pewresearch.org

There are a large number of STEM specific scholarships that are restricted to female applicants. Larger tech companies also have programs explicitly geared towards hiring female graduates, although I tend to think they do that to avoid bad PR rather than out of genuine interest.




That is entirely possible. I don't tend to make causal claims without exceptionally strong evidence (thus the reason I almost never make them). I was pointing out that women outpace men when it comes to graduation rates, yet gendered scholarships and recruiting efforts primarily target women.

I slice healthcare outside of STEM in general. My bias.

The 30% higher dropout rate is based on official gov stats. The speculation about temperament is mine. The attitude towards delayed gratification changes with age (study based) and I suspect that boys learning to handle testosterone are particularly challebged in that department (speculation based on my own personal experiences).

 

[thekev]

I slice healthcare outside of STEM in general. My bias.

I see it grouped both ways. When I attended college, I saw a lot of women there on student visas at the graduate level, and that was in an engineering department. I'm actually not sure whether the majority was male or female there.

The 30% higher dropout rate is based on official gov stats. The speculation about temperament is mine. The attitude towards delayed gratification changes with age (study based) and I suspect that boys learning to handle testosterone are particularly challebged in that department (speculation based on my own personal experiences).

That may be a contributing factor. It remains the case that the group with higher graduation rates actually gets more attention with the expressed goal of improving their overall success rates. This runs counter to typical arguments when addressing other social issues, which is why I brought it up (that and personal bias).

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Males have a 30% higher dropout rate. I consider a lot of it a matter of postpubertal temperament differences.

I'm part of possibly the last generation when college was helpful, but not necessary, early - mid 90's college years. You could still get a decent job and live comfortably and that's what we assumed the future looked like. I think it's no coincidence that, that is also the largest demographic of pissed off Trump supporters. "Get a degree" is the "pull up your bootstraps" reality deflection of the left. If large numbers of people actually did that there wouldn't be enough success to go around because there already isn't with the people who have done that. This is where the right wing "Well don't worry about everybody else. Just worry about yourself" deflection comes into play.

 

[Herdfan]

I'm part of possibly the last generation when college was helpful, but not necessary, early - mid 90's college years. You could still get a decent job and live comfortably and that's what we assumed the future looked like. I think it's no coincidence that, that is also the largest demographic of pissed off Trump supporters. "Get a degree" is the "pull up your bootstraps" reality deflection of the left. If large numbers of people actually did that there wouldn't be enough success to go around because there already isn't with the people who have done that. This is where the right wing "Well don't worry about everybody else. Just worry about yourself" deflection comes into play.

The debate over the usefulness of college could probably fill an entire thread.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The debate over the usefulness of college could probably fill an entire thread.

The "college degree required" for the majority of jobs that state that has been a joke for decades. "But it's also about the experience and maturity gained" deflection just makes it worse and stupider. College shouldn't be an accepted (or expected) expensive bridge to compensate for our failing k-12 education. And even with that they aren't teaching personal responsibility and work ethic. A college degree doesn't say you aren't a shitty employee.

 

[Yoused]

A college degree doesn't say you aren't a shitty employee.

Depending on the job in question, it can, though "employee" may not be the right word. There was a time in the 1980s when "Harvard MBA" was spoken with fear and derision because those guys (and they were mostly men) would come in and start taking rigid accounting of the navies and pintos and limas and lawd help you if there were any lentils or black-eyed peas. They basically made the workplace intolerable while making the ceo smile. It was a college degree for honing your sociopathic instinct for evil.