The Fall of Intel

Ender said:
I don’t think you have to limit it to just electron apps. Most PWAs end up being sluggish & way more buggy. Whenever there’s an option I always prefer a native app. 1Password is a sad example of a company that moved from a solid native app to web based; I miss the v2/v3 days, never had as many crashes & needing to restart Safari as I’ve had to since the switch. Really unfortunate.
Click to expand...
I had to abandon them after 7, due to security concerns. Luckily apple's own passwords app is slowly reaching feature parity.
 
casperes1996 said:
One node once isn't good enough, sure - But if there's promising indications of being able to be one node ahead continuously for several years, that might be - Apple isn't leaving TSMC anytime soon and Apple is definitely not Intel's saviour on the fab business right now. But if Intel does make a viable fab business that remains a node ahead for a couple of years straight, it could be
Click to expand...

I'd argue that if they are threatening to exit the business if customers don't show up, there's not much hope for getting folks to take the chance, IMO. Why would I get my designers to work on stuff for a fab that might pull the rug in the near future? Even if I get one node out of Intel, what's to say I'll get a second if they are already eyeing the exit?

Ender said:
I don’t think you have to limit it to just electron apps. Most PWAs end up being sluggish & way more buggy. Whenever there’s an option I always prefer a native app. 1Password is a sad example of a company that moved from a solid native app to web based; I miss the v2/v3 days, never had as many crashes & needing to restart Safari as I’ve had to since the switch. Really unfortunate.
Click to expand...

I could have phrased it as "electron or similar", but the point is more that by spinning up a browser process, you get a couple more threads that do work async than you would with a native app. I wasn't trying to speak to the experience itself. Having had to work on React Native and Web the last couple years, I do miss native when it comes to work.

Despite being Electron and (I assume) React Native, I haven't had much in the way of issues with the 1Password apps on macOS/iOS/Linux... the browser extension on the other hand seems to be getting worse in Safari lately.

Cmaier said:
I had to abandon them after 7, due to security concerns. Luckily apple's own passwords app is slowly reaching feature parity.
Click to expand...

The general CVE count, or something architectural about 8+? We still use 1Password as we have shared vaults in our household, but always curious if I'm missing something about what I'm reliant on.
 
Nycturne said:
The general CVE count, or something architectural about 8+? We still use 1Password as we have shared vaults in our household, but always curious if I'm missing something about what I'm reliant on.
Click to expand...

Through 7 I was able to host the passwords on a server my employer considered safe. My understanding is this capability went away in 8.
 
Nycturne said:
I'd argue that if they are threatening to exit the business if customers don't show up, there's not much hope for getting folks to take the chance, IMO. Why would I get my designers to work on stuff for a fab that might pull the rug in the near future? Even if I get one node out of Intel, what's to say I'll get a second if they are already eyeing the exit?
Click to expand...
Fully agree - I was purely arguing from a theoretical standpoint that it could be possible to get Apple off of TSMC - It doesn't seem like that's in the cards right now though.
Nycturne said:
I could have phrased it as "electron or similar", but the point is more that by spinning up a browser process, you get a couple more threads that do work async than you would with a native app. I wasn't trying to speak to the experience itself. Having had to work on React Native and Web the last couple years, I do miss native when it comes to work.

Despite being Electron and (I assume) React Native, I haven't had much in the way of issues with the 1Password apps on macOS/iOS/Linux... the browser extension on the other hand seems to be getting worse in Safari lately.
Click to expand...
Experientially Electron apps and its elk have been decent enough for me for a while. No major complaints, really.
Philosophically I am opposed to them though. I find it such a shame that we waste computing resources to the degree we do parsing and interpreting web apps instead of running code made for our machines. Even if the machines I use are fast enough that it doesn't matter from a UX perspective, I still think it a shame. I don't mind abstracting away the machine; Abstraction is one of the beautiful things about computer science. A user process doesn't need to know if a file is on a USB flash drive or an internal HDD or a network drive, it can just call read and delegate the responsibility of giving it bytes in a buffer along. Fantastic. But with the Electron world, I must admit I see it as abstraction with no benefit. The "benefit" is that you get to write in JS I guess but that to me is a downside :P

----

As for the password manager conversation; I've always only really used Keychain/Apple Passwords and been happy with it - What has been reasons for you all to use anything else? Keychains have always served me pretty well. And have even allowed me to write automations such I can run a script, log into my keychain with fingerprint and then the script automatically finds and grabs my 2FA key for work's VPN and logs in with it.
 
Cmaier said:
10% yield?
Click to expand...

I‘m not up to date with typical yields nowadays, but that sounds abysmal.

I remember reading about the 6502 and why it cost a quarter of the Intel and Motorola chips in the mid-70s.
Intel and Motorola were using a mask that had direct contact with the wafer, and they lost quite a bit of the chips when the mask was removed. I think their typical yield was 30%.
MOS Technology used a technique, where the mask did not have direct contact with the wafer, leading to 70% yield. The first 6502 processors were sold for $25, while similar Intel and Motorola chips were around $100.
 
KingOfPain said:
I‘m not up to date with typical yields nowadays, but that sounds abysmal.
Click to expand...

Here is an 8-month old look at Samsung's struggles with their 3nm GAAFET process. It says they were initially getting around 20%, which was just not good enough to get customers in this day and age. They apparently got it up to around 50~60%, but the initial problems had too many people going somewhere else. And when you tape out for a process, changing it for a different process really has to be worth the effort. Half junk may be good enough, but right now Samsung's foundary reputation is pretty weak. Not sure how it compares to Intel's, though.
 
Now some maniac who thinks he should be in charge of everything everywhere, in a massive fit of D-K, is calling for the CEO of Intel to step down because of his "ties to China". Also, probably, arrgh, DEI, he is not White.

I understand that this is somewhat inappropiate for this thread and apologize for that, but it does also pertain. Bad things are leaking into every matter we can discuss. Cats will probably be the next victims of this nonsense.
 
Yoused said:
What would you do there?
Click to expand...

1) Beg and plead for Fred Weber to come in and be CTO.
2) Bring back StrongARM and go after qualcomm
3) Fire most of the design team, because the teams are way too big. People will have to figure out how to be as productive as they are at AMD and everywhere else.
4) If a deal can be worked out, buy AMD. At this point it doesn’t seem like an antitrust concern. If that works, I’d pretty much fire most of the Intel design team.
5) if not, focus the design team on an AI product. Fred was an early investor/advisor to Cerebrus, and he knows AI.
6) go suck up to Trump and offer to name fabs after him or whatever it takes to get an even bigger massive cash infusion to get the damned fabs working. Because I’m patriotic, and even though I think the rational move is for Intel to give up on the fabs, it’s too important to have a great U.S. fab company.
 
Cmaier said:
it’s too important to have a great U.S. fab company.
Click to expand...
Agree.
Fabs should be part of the military industrial complex, and funded as such.
Just keep an eye on their competitive performance. Remember the oxymoron "Military Intelligence"...
 
KingOfPain said:
I think selling off XScale was one of the worst decisions Intel made.
Click to expand...

History would seem to agree with you. If they had xscale, they would have had a better chance of winning the iphone business.

Of course, they may still have eventually lost it, but they’d be in every other phone, tablet, and probably PC right now.
 

Similar threads

Eric
The fall of Tesla
3 4 5
Replies
92
Views
3K
diamond.g
diamond.g
Back
Top