Today’s Shooting (an ongoing topic)

[fooferdoggie]

Because there ARE some who want to take all guns.

Want reasonable restrictions, fine. I can go along with that. But the minute you start talking about banning grenade launchers for AR-15's you lose me because I know you aren't serious. (I mean politicians, not you specifically.)

Want Red Flag Laws, fine. Put in some protections for the gun owners. These laws shouldn't be one sided and should include harsh penalties for false reporting.

How many exactly I mean enough to cause the massive gun buys nope only a very few. but if you listen the the NRA every democrat wants that. How many false reports exactly? that sounds like another fear propagated by the NRA. just like the fear women will make false Rape accusations.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Just calling out their insane justifications for defending this weapon whose seemingly only goal is to murder as many people in as short amount of time as possible. If they spent even a fraction of time defending those kids as they did the weapons used to kill them it would be one thing, but frankly they couldn't care less about a class full of dead kids and it's definitely my intent to call them out on it.

well the do care they care Howbad it makes them look but them rejoice on the improved gun sales.

 

[Herdfan]

Why no?

AR-style weapons are what stir up many of those who should not own guns. Owning one has become a political statement - freedom, don't f with me, etc; especially in states where it's legal to strap one across you chest in public to try and appear bad-ass. What societal good comes as a result of that? It appears that many of the country's mass shootings involve AR-style assault weapons.

Because they are enjoyable to shoot. Same reason I own 2 fully-autos. People blow off steam in different ways. I hate golf, so I do one of 2 other things, I shoot and ride SXS's.

What if it were possible to get to a place where no one (except law enforcement and military) could have access to assault weapons. Would you be OK with that?

There needs to be some form of compromise (on both sides) in order to stop the mass shootings.

Make them a Class 3. That will fix 99.9% of it. At least as far as AR's are concerned. If you can pass the Class 3 BGC and jump though all the hoops, you aren't the problem.

 

[Herdfan]

How many exactly I mean enough to cause the massive gun buys nope only a very few. but if you listen the the NRA every democrat wants that. How many false reports exactly? that sounds like another fear propagated by the NRA. just like the fear women will make false Rape accusations.

One is too many.

But let's assume they don't happen, what is the harm in having punishments laid out just in case. If you are correct that they don't happen, then that section of the law will simply lie there doing nothing.

I find it interesting that on one hand people will say "That isn't happening", yet don't want laws banning it.

Also, aren't there penalties for false rape accusations?

 

[Herdfan]

To be fair you can kill far less more kids without it,

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, AR's would not be the first choice for a school shooting. Long rifles in general are not meant for close contact which is why most military's equip soldiers with handguns for this very reason.

 

[KingOfPain]

Long rifles in general are not meant for close contact which is why most military's equip soldiers with handguns for this very reason.

I haven‘t been in the army, but even I know that a sidearm is a mere work-around when you don‘t have the option to reload your main weapon.
Also, most anti-terrorist units have replaced their SMGs with shorter ARs, e.g. a .300 BLK Honey Badger instead of an MP5SD. In AR doesn‘t necessarily have to be long.

Since the second amendment will probably never be changed, the best option is to take it literally:
Are you part of a well-regulated militia? No, then no gun!
Also, gun means what it meant back when this law was written, i.e. muzzle loaders. Problem solved!

Additionally, the NRA should be brought back to what it was originally founded for: Training people in gun safety.
Not bribing politicians to be able to sell more guns.

 

[Citysnaps]

Because they are enjoyable to shoot. Same reason I own 2 fully-autos. People blow off steam in different ways. I hate golf, so I do one of 2 other things, I shoot and ride SXS's.

I totally get that. Seriously. I would love to own one because I'm swept away by devices/machines/computers/etc that are well designed and work well. I'd also like to own a couple of H&Ks, seeing them (MP5s) up very close from the pointy end in the past.

BUT... I would then become part of the problem, tacitly approving that such assault weapons (ARs, etc) are OK to be owned by anyone in the US who wants one.

And...that would also make me a hypocrite (and also very selfish) as my views are that slaughtered school children have become an acceptable consequence of people in the US who are OK with no-limitations gun ownership.

 

[Eric]

Seriously, AR's would not be the first choice for a school shooting. Long rifles in general are not meant for close contact which is why most military's equip soldiers with handguns for this very reason.

They are the first choice for school shootings, I have to question whether or not you actually follow these things or just wilfully turn a blind eye. This is common knowledge to anyone but would also explain your lack of understanding to the severity of it. I get children getting gunned down is not nearly as offensive wrong gender using the bathroom in school, but it's sort of important.

 

[Herdfan]

Also, gun means what it meant back when this law was written, i.e. muzzle loaders. Problem solved!

Applying that same logic would mean no freedom of the press for digital media.

 

[Herdfan]

They are the first choice for school shootings, I have to question whether or not you actually follow these things or just wilfully turn a blind eye. This is common knowledge to anyone but would also explain your lack of understanding to the severity of it. I get children getting gunned down is not nearly as offensive wrong gender using the bathroom in school, but it's sort of important.

I guess i should have said "best choice".

They would not be MY first choice.

 

[shadow puppet]

This may not be a popular opinion here, but I really hate guns. If I need to blow off stream I do it via hiking, bike riding or swimming laps at the pool. IMHO, it's much safer and healthier.

Until this country finally makes better choices re: gun control, innocent kids and people will die. Why we still allow things to continue as they are, perpetually blows my mind. I am so sick and tired of those who will not see and continually get self righteous and defensive.

But that's just me.

 

[Eric]

This may not be a popular opinion here, but I really hate guns. If I need to blow off stream I do it via hiking, bike riding or swimming laps at the pool. IMHO, it's much safer and healthier.

Amen!

Until this country finally makes better choices re: gun control, innocent kids and people will die. Why we still allow things to continue as they are, perpetually blows my mind. I am so sick and tired of those who will not see and continually get self righteous and defensive.

But that's just me.

We have to act at the ballot box, Republicans will do everything they can to see it continue until we vote them out.

 

[fooferdoggie]

One is too many.

But let's assume they don't happen, what is the harm in having punishments laid out just in case. If you are correct that they don't happen, then that section of the law will simply lie there doing nothing.

I find it interesting that on one hand people will say "That isn't happening", yet don't want laws banning it.

Also, aren't there penalties for false rape accusations?

one is too many but if you get away with it well oh well. I bety if we add up the numners from faluse accusations and ones that were never voiced or just not dealt with guess what number would be larger? Remember all the unprocessed rape kits? sorry lets just focus on the rare not the many.

 

[Yoused]

Seriously, AR's would not be the first choice for a school shooting. Long rifles in general are not meant for close contact which is why most military's equip soldiers with handguns for this very reason.

As King of Pain notes, calling an AR a long rifle is not really correct. Long rifles are the ones built for long-range accuracy, which is not how you would use a compact rifle like an AR. But more importantly it uses the long aspect round that tumbles on entry into soft tissue, which makes it a prime mayhem tool. Most pistols do not use that kind of round (though I would imagine you can get ones as do).

 

[MEJHarrison]

Because they are enjoyable to shoot. Same reason I own 2 fully-autos. People blow off steam in different ways. I hate golf, so I do one of 2 other things, I shoot and ride SXS's.

I can see how shooting guns would be a good way to blow off steam. I grew up in a family that did that all the time. I have an amazing picture of my cousin shooting a muzzle-loader my grandfather built from a kit. I captured about 18"-24" of flame coming out of the barrel (I need to find that and get it on my computer!). I presume you're a legal gun owner. I presume you're safe and someone who can be trusted. I have no problems with you enjoying that activity. I work with a guy who loves shooting jugs of Tannerite. I get it.

But like Citysnaps, I don't own any guns myself or go shooting/hunting. I would also feel like I'm part of a problem that I believe is more important than my rights. That's a personal choice. I don't begrudge anyone who is legally purchasing firearms and enjoying them responsibly. They're not doing anything wrong. I just choose not to be part of that crowd.

My view isn't that people shouldn't have guns, it's that some people shouldn't have guns. If we can weed those people out, there's no reason we can't be more like Switzerland. They're allowed to own guns, yet they manage to keep them from being used for mass murder. Because of sensible gun laws (my opinion obviously).

I also think the longer and harder the right holds on to their crazy guns beliefs, the further to the left it's going to eventually swing. Someday our lawmakers aren't going to want their children and grandchildren fearing for their lives at school the same way they did as children. And they'll do something about it. Those not willing to give an inch now will be dead and gone, and instead of compromise, things will go towards the other extreme. I doubt I'll be around when that happens, but I predict that someday something will finally be done about the problems we face today.

 

[Herdfan]

As King of Pain notes, calling an AR a long rifle is not really correct. Long rifles are the ones built for long-range accuracy, which is not how you would use a compact rifle like an AR. But more importantly it uses the long aspect round that tumbles on entry into soft tissue, which makes it a prime mayhem tool. Most pistols do not use that kind of round (though I would imagine you can get ones as do).

Yes and no. It does tumble, but only after it starts to lose velocity and spin. This is because it is a very light round, but is tail heavy. So as it loses velocity and spin, it has trouble keeping its nose up. So when it does make contact, the rear starts coming to meet the front and it tumbles. This may or may not happen at closer ranges, such as in a room. If a round doesn't hit bone, it may go through and through doing less damage.

A pistol on the other hand can fire hollow points, which fragment on contact and spread to cause more damage. Then you have expanding rounds which mushroom out making the round up to twice the size. These rounds will cause the most damage. Pistols also come in much larger calibers than .223. A .45 round is already twice the size of a .223 round, so now double that and you can see how much damage an expanding round in a .45 can cause.

 

[Citysnaps]

But here is the main thing I want. Since guns are protected by the 2A and regulated by the ATF, any violent gun crime should be a Federal Crime. And no plea bargaining violent gun crimes down to misdemeanors. Take them all to trial. Sure you might lose some cases, how is a loss that much different than pleading a felony down to a misdemeanor where the criminal is back on the street in a few months/year.

A couple of questions...

"Since guns are protected by the 2A and regulated by the ATF, any violent gun crime should be a Federal Crime."

Will people who are predisposed to or about to commit a mass shooting give two whits if the mass shooting he is about to commit would be charged as a Federal or State crime? I highly doubt it.


"And no plea bargaining violent gun crimes down to misdemeanors. Take them all to trial."

Do you have any credible evidence to support your contention that violent gun crimes (including mass shootings) are being routinely plead down to misdemeanors, without going to trial?


How would the above changes you propose have deterred or stopped the shooter who slaughtered 19 school children and two teachers in Uvalde? He had no criminal record.

On two occasions, he simply walked into a gun store and purchased his two AR-style weapons and 375 rounds of ammunition, several days before he slaughtered the above 19 school children and two teachers.

 

[Huntn]

I can see how shooting guns would be a good way to blow off steam. I grew up in a family that did that all the time. I have an amazing picture of my cousin shooting a muzzle-loader my grandfather built from a kit. I captured about 18"-24" of flame coming out of the barrel (I need to find that and get it on my computer!). I presume you're a legal gun owner. I presume you're safe and someone who can be trusted. I have no problems with you enjoying that activity. I work with a guy who loves shooting jugs of Tannerite. I get it.

But like Citysnaps, I don't own any guns myself or go shooting/hunting. I would also feel like I'm part of a problem that I believe is more important than my rights. That's a personal choice. I don't begrudge anyone who is legally purchasing firearms and enjoying them responsibly. They're not doing anything wrong. I just choose not to be part of that crowd.

My view isn't that people shouldn't have guns, it's that some people shouldn't have guns. If we can weed those people out, there's no reason we can't be more like Switzerland. They're allowed to own guns, yet they manage to keep them from being used for mass murder. Because of sensible gun laws (my opinion obviously).

I also think the longer and harder the right holds on to their crazy guns beliefs, the further to the left it's going to eventually swing. Someday our lawmakers aren't going to want their children and grandchildren fearing for their lives at school the same way they did as children. And they'll do something about it. Those not willing to give an inch now will be dead and gone, and instead of compromise, things will go towards the other extreme. I doubt I'll be around when that happens, but I predict that someday something will finally be done about the problems we face today.

Remember when mass shooting were rare? Now they are a daily event, and we have a group of citizens who promote politicians who have made gun ownership routine, and they refuse to seriously address the mental issue with any thing other than an idiotic slogan, guns don’t kill people, people kill people, as if that is an excuse to push gun ownership and carry for everyone, even the people who have no business anywhere close to a gun. You can blame the Founding Fathers who created the Second Amendment, but more rightfully you can blame todays Gun Lobby, who promotes death and killing although they will deny this to their last breath, for refusing to allow the 2A to be updated to reflect the damage being done daily .

We need a group of people who overall are smarter than today’s US batch. The problem of My Precious assails us daily, yet the gun lobby doubles down, clutches Precious closer. They are more willing to makes excuses as to why, sleeping in their bloody beds, are worth their “freedom” to wield deadly force, and if an unstable citizen murders a group of kids, no outrage, just an abundance of empty thoughts and prayers, to act like we give a damn.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Another non drag queen

An Oklahoma sex offender who was released from prison early shot his wife, her three children and their two friends in the head and then killed himself, authorities confirmed Wednesday as concerns grew about why he was free as his trial on new sex charges loomed.

Okmulgee Police Chief Joe Prentice said that the victims had each been shot in the head one to three times with a 9 mm pistol when they were found Monday near a creek and in a heavily wooded area in rural Oklahoma.

The bodies apparently had been moved there from where they were originally killed, the scene “staged” before Jesse McFadden, a 39-year-old convicted sex offender, killed himself, Prentice said in the first major update on the case.

The discovery of the bodies near McFadden’s home in Henryetta, a town of about 6,000 about 90 miles (145 kilometers) east of Oklahoma City, came on the very day that he was to stand trial on charges that he solicited nude images from another teen while he was imprisoned for rape.

Sex offender fatally shot 6, then killed self, official says

A woman whose daughter and three grandchildren were among seven bodies found on a rural Oklahoma property says investigators told her he shot all six victims in the head before killing himself. Law enforcement authorities have released no details about how they died or who killed them since the...

apnews.com

 

[Eric]

It's scary out there, I never let my neighbors know my political affiliation, same with those I've worked with.

Funny though, I know some of my neighbors are Republican gun nuts because they're outspoken and almost militant about it, I've never felt safe around them.