Today’s Shooting (an ongoing topic)

Eric said:
It's scary out there, I never let my neighbors know my political affiliation, same with those I've worked with.

Funny though, I know some of my neighbors are Republican gun nuts because they're outspoken and almost militant about it, I've never felt safe around them.

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It's a sickness. I give trump all of the credit for legitimizing the hate we're still seeing today, allowing it to sprout and flourish from being somewhat dormant underground in past years.

And this is the guy half the US populace will be reflexively backing in the 2024 presidential election. That's something I'll never understand.
 
fooferdoggie said:
Another non drag queen

An Oklahoma sex offender who was released from prison early shot his wife, her three children and their two friends in the head and then killed himself, authorities confirmed Wednesday as concerns grew about why he was free as his trial on new sex charges loomed.

Okmulgee Police Chief Joe Prentice said that the victims had each been shot in the head one to three times with a 9 mm pistol when they were found Monday near a creek and in a heavily wooded area in rural Oklahoma.

The bodies apparently had been moved there from where they were originally killed, the scene “staged” before Jesse McFadden, a 39-year-old convicted sex offender, killed himself, Prentice said in the first major update on the case.

The discovery of the bodies near McFadden’s home in Henryetta, a town of about 6,000 about 90 miles (145 kilometers) east of Oklahoma City, came on the very day that he was to stand trial on charges that he solicited nude images from another teen while he was imprisoned for rape.
apnews.com

Sex offender fatally shot 6, then killed self, official says

A woman whose daughter and three grandchildren were among seven bodies found on a rural Oklahoma property says investigators told her he shot all six victims in the head before killing himself. Law enforcement authorities have released no details about how they died or who killed them since the...
apnews.com apnews.com
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One thing I found interesting in this situation is it took them days to say what the cause of death was. I’m no forensics expert but gunshots to the head doesn’t sound like it requires days of examination. Hell, they could have just said “it appears they’ve been shot.” a half hour after they reached the scene. It really comes off like they really didn’t want more negative press about guns. That’s the most important thing here.
 
Eric said:
It's scary out there, I never let my neighbors know my political affiliation, same with those I've worked with.

Funny though, I know some of my neighbors are Republican gun nuts because they're outspoken and almost militant about it, I've never felt safe around them.

634a64gefuxa1.png
Click to expand...
Rot in jail you MFer. 😐 Got that out of my system, note, I’m not a Democrat, so let’s say this guy is mentally ill and… full of hate. Yeah I stand by my first outburst…I hope the worst for you.:unsure:
 
Huntn said:
Rot in jail you MFer. 😐 Got that out of my system, note, I’m not a Democrat, so let’s say this guy is mentally ill and… full of hate. Yeah I stand by my first outburst…I hope the worst for you.:unsure:
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This is where I differ from my friends on the left on the death penalty, an eye for an eye man. This was clear cut and he's guilty, put his ass down, he deserves no better than the victim. Would say the exact same thing had their political affiliations been reversed. It's about cold blooded murder.
 
Eric said:
This is where I differ from my friends on the left on the death penalty, an eye for an eye man. This was clear cut and he's guilty, put his ass down, he deserves no better than the victim. Would say the exact same thing had their political affiliations been reversed. It's about cold blooded murder.
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There may be some people who simply cannot be rehabilitated. Yet, it is fairly evident that capital punishment does not function as a deterrent, and some studies (probably at least a little biased) have suggested that it normalizes violence in the minds of the citizens (essentially has the opposite effect as to what we would want on the people we would most want to respond to it).

I am not 100% opposed to having irredeemable people permanently removed from society. But, ending their lives in such a public way not only looks bad but has side effects we do not want. Once the person has been established as guilty, they should be placed in an assessment program for at least a year, and if it is finally determined that they are beyond hope, flood their bedroom with nitrogen some night, so that they quietly suffocate in their sleep, and quietly return their body to the earth. The records will be available to anyone who is curious, but there will be no public statements.
 
Yoused said:
There may be some people who simply cannot be rehabilitated. Yet, it is fairly evident that capital punishment does not function as a deterrent, and some studies (probably at least a little biased) have suggested that it normalizes violence in the minds of the citizens (essentially has the opposite effect as to what we would want on the people we would most want to respond to it).

I am not 100% opposed to having irredeemable people permanently removed from society. But, ending their lives in such a public way not only looks bad but has side effects we do not want. Once the person has been established as guilty, they should be placed in an assessment program for at least a year, and if it is finally determined that they are beyond hope, flood their bedroom with nitrogen some night, so that they quietly suffocate in their sleep, and quietly return their body to the earth. The records will be available to anyone who is curious, but there will be no public statements.
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I don't look at is as a deterrent as much as a penalty for the crime, I really don't think it matters to those who are sick enough to murder other people. I'm all for being more humane about it with them as they are with their victims but some crimes flat out warrant it.
 
Eric said:
I don't look at is as a deterrent as much as a penalty
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Except, a penalty is something that serves the function of behavior modification. If I need to remove The Ripper, after the job is done, The Ripper will be gone, and that is all that really matters to him. Any suffering he experiences in his departure will make no difference to him, merely that he will no longer be here.

But I will still be here, and if I feel compelled to enact suffering upon him that reflects the suffering he visited upon his victims, then I am inviting his personal demons to take up residence in me. And if it is done publicly, then The Ripper's demons are being invited into all who observe it.

We are humane for our own sake, to make ourselves better people. And we are the ones who will still be here, to benefit from our earned humanity rather than be corrupted by our pointless cruelty.
 
Yoused said:
Except, a penalty is something that serves the function of behavior modification. If I need to remove The Ripper, after the job is done, The Ripper will be gone, and that is all that really matters to him. Any suffering he experiences in his departure will make no difference to him, merely that he will no longer be here.

But I will still be here, and if I feel compelled to enact suffering upon him that reflects the suffering he visited upon his victims, then I am inviting his personal demons to take up residence in me. And if it is done publicly, then The Ripper's demons are being invited into all who observe it.

We are humane for our own sake, to make ourselves better people. And we are the ones who will still be here, to benefit from our earned humanity rather than be corrupted by our pointless cruelty.
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Fair enough but I don't see it as trying to enact suffering, it's just removing that person from this world and then being done with it.

I also think the system is designed in such a way that it's cost prohibitive, another issue but we all know it costs more with all the appeals, etc than simply incarcerating them for the rest of their lives. It doesn't have to be that way but we've allowed it to be.

I get the argument on both sides, I just happen to side with capital punishment which I probably got from my father's side, far less eloquent with statements like "in China they don't fuck around, they take you out in back and put a bullet in you and that's that goddammit!". RIP dad.
 
Eric said:
This is where I differ from my friends on the left on the death penalty, an eye for an eye man. This was clear cut and he's guilty, put his ass down, he deserves no better than the victim. Would say the exact same thing had their political affiliations been reversed. It's about cold blooded murder.
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As a rule I have ruled out the death penalty due to the statistics of innocent people executed, but in some absolute cases, beyond doubt, I can see your point of view. :unsure:
 
Eric said:
I also think the system is designed in such a way that it's cost prohibitive, another issue but we all know it costs more with all the appeals, etc than simply incarcerating them for the rest of their lives. It doesn't have to be that way but we've allowed it to be.
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The main concern is that we do not want to kill a person who does not deserve it. That pesky humanity again. But, if you can hold a person securely in prison for the rest of their life with absolutely no hope of getting out, isolated from the rest of us to stew in their own regret, that is perhaps even a worse punishment.

… "in China they don't fuck around, they take you out in back and put a bullet in you and that's that goddammit!". RIP dad.
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If I edit that quote just right …
 
Huntn said:
As a rule I have ruled out the death penalty due to the statistics of innocent people executed, but in some absolute cases, beyond doubt, I can see your point of view. :unsure:
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I feel the same. Many years ago an employee at the company I worked for in Sunnyvale, CA went on a rampage armed to the teeth and killed seven employees (one a friend), and wounding four others. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. In 2019 a death penalty moratorium was imposed and exists to this day, with those on death row resentenced to life in prison (with no parole possibilities).

I'm OK with that knowing he'll never get out.
 
Concerned about violence, the Flint MI school district has taken bold action – banning students from carrying backpacks to school. The students will be allowed to carry their books and stuff in clear vinyl bags, and purses, as appropriate. Any student who brings an opaque backpack to school will be held in the adminitration office as their parents are contacted.
 
Here's a pretty good analysis and history about how we've come to over time distorting the intent of the 2nd Amendment, and the resulting consequences we're seeing today. By historian and Boston College professor Heather Cox Richardson.

heathercoxrichardson.substack.com

May 6, 2023

For years now, after one massacre or another, I have written some version of the same article, explaining that the nation’s current gun free-for-all is not traditional but, rather, is a symptom of the takeover of our nation by a radical extremist minority. The idea that massacres are “the price...
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com heathercoxrichardson.substack.com

"The idea that massacres are “the price of freedom,” as right-wing personality Bill O’Reilly said in 2017 after the Mandalay Bay massacre in Las Vegas, in which a gunman killed 60 people and wounded 411 others, is new, and it is about politics, not our history."
 
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