Transgender, a Challenge for the Conservative Mindset

Herdfan said:
I know most of you will not agree with this ruling, but they based their ruling on "Sex" and not "Gender".

www.politico.com

Appeals court upholds Florida high school’s transgender bathroom ban

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the St. Johns County School Board did not discriminate against transgender students based on sex, or violate federal civil rights law.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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It's just that Conservatives are always so hung up with legislating what people do with their own bodies, I thought they were the party of personal liberties and freedom, not bathroom and Planned Parenthood police.
 
Eric said:
It's just that Conservatives are always so hung up with legislating what people do with their own bodies, I thought they were the party of personal liberties and freedom, not bathroom and Planned Parenthood police.
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Maybe, but it is more than their own bodies. You start letting boys into girls locker rooms, it is no longer about their body, but now it is affecting others and making them uncomfortable.

I am fine with people doing what they want right up to where is starts having negative effects on other people.
 
Herdfan said:
Maybe, but it is more than their own bodies. You start letting boys into girls locker rooms, it is no longer about their body, but now it is affecting others and making them uncomfortable.

I am fine with people doing what they want right up to where is starts having negative effects on other people.
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Their body, their identity... what bathroom they use is only offensive to those who are bigots. The phrase "negative effects on others" only makes that point, they're not hurting anyone.
 
Eric said:
Their body, their identity... what bathroom they use is only offensive to those who are bigots. The phrase "negative effects on others" only makes that point, they're not hurting anyone.
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No, with respect, it is offensive (and disrespectful) to those who do not feel safe as a consequence.
 
Eric said:
Their body, their identity... what bathroom they use is only offensive to those who are bigots. The phrase "negative effects on others" only makes that point, they're not hurting anyone.
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This is where we disagree. I don't think a majority of teenage girls would be comfortable changing clothes in front a biological boy, regardless of how they identify. So at that point, they are hurting someone.

And quite frankly as a teenage boy, I'm not sure I would have been comfortable showering with a girl in a locker room.

I would like to make a point about this thread. Have you noticed that almost none of the females here have participated in this thread. Wonder why that is.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
No, with respect, it is offensive (and disrespectful) to those who do not feel safe as a consequence.
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What I think is interesting about this whole debate is we are living in a period where making people feel uncomfortable is not acceptable. You can't use certain words or phrases anymore because it might offend someone.

But no one seems to care about the ones affected by all this. It's too easy to call them as @Eric says, Bigots. But most teenage girls aren't bigots, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. They just want to be comfortable changing clothes.
 
The shower debate is one thing but I would question how anyone in a bathroom is going to know the difference. The person who identifies as a man or a woman simply wants to go where they feel most comfortable. The fact that "you" aren't comfortable is definitely bigotry IMO. We can agree to disagree here but it's this sort of closed mindedness that leads to hatred.
 
Herdfan said:
This is where we disagree. I don't think a majority of teenage girls would be comfortable changing clothes in front a biological boy, regardless of how they identify. So at that point, they are hurting someone.

And quite frankly as a teenage boy, I'm not sure I would have been comfortable showering with a girl in a locker room.

I would like to make a point about this thread. Have you noticed that almost none of the females here have participated in this thread. Wonder why that is.
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Generally speaking "bathrooms" don't have showers or lockers, and beyond that, the toilets in women's bathroom are usually enclosed in partitions to give women privacy from other women.
 
Herdfan said:
What I think is interesting about this whole debate is we are living in a period where making people feel uncomfortable is not acceptable. You can't use certain words or phrases anymore because it might offend someone.

But no one seems to care about the ones affected by all this. It's too easy to call them as @Eric says, Bigots. But most teenage girls aren't bigots, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. They just want to be comfortable changing clothes.
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I must say that I am so glad that I am not a teenager, that is, a female teenager, at the moment.

It was hard enough at the time; now, it would be excruciatingly difficult.

Eric said:
The shower debate is one thing but I would question how anyone in a bathroom is going to know the difference. The person who identifies as a man or a woman simply wants to go where they feel most comfortable. The fact that "you" aren't comfortable is definitely bigotry IMO. We can agree to disagree here but it's this sort of closed mindedness that leads to hatred.
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Of course, you know the difference.

And, it is not "bigotry" to simply point out that you are uncomfortable with people - in the presence of people - who were born male, who arrive at adulthood with adult male strength, socialisation, attitudes, fists, and entitlement, yet who demand access to your private spaces, such as bathrooms, simply because they say that they are women, and blame you when you express discomfort, unease, or being unsettled, and yes, very, very, alert.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
No, with respect, it is offensive (and disrespectful) to those who do not feel safe as a consequence.
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When someone walks into the public bathroom do you inspect their genitals?
 
Eric said:
When someone walks into the public bathroom do you inspect their genitals?
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Is male entitlement a default setting?

And, do you know how it is to live life as a woman (not as a man who says he thinks he is a woman, or feels as though he is a woman)?

We live in a state of permanently enhanced alertness, with a keenly honed heightened sense of - awareness of - danger, or, potential danger, not least because we tend to be blamed when we are attacked on a gendered basis.
 
I cant find the pic but one store I went to had one bathroom. there were separate rooms with a locking door no gaps for each toilet. so no one can see what you're doing. they may have had a urinal I cant remember. then a open place with sinks to was. so no his and hers. very practical.
 
fooferdoggie said:
I cant find the pic but one store I went to had one bathroom. there were separate rooms with a locking door no gaps for each toilet. so no one can see what you're doing. they may have had a urinal I cant remember. then a open place with sinks to was. so no his and hers. very practical.
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Many label them all gender (or something similar) then if it freaks you out you don't have to use it. Most simply don't care, only those who feel like they have to make a social issue out of it.
 
fooferdoggie said:
I cant find the pic but one store I went to had one bathroom. there were separate rooms with a locking door no gaps for each toilet. so no one can see what you're doing. they may have had a urinal I cant remember. then a open place with sinks to was. so no his and hers. very practical.
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I remember a restaurant near me where there were two bathroom doors with the typical signs, one saying men and the other saying women. Both doors lead into the same space, so everybody was confused and worried that they might be in the wrong space. Sinks were in the common space and there were more doors to individual private toilets.
 
Macky-Mac said:
I remember a restaurant near me where there were two bathroom doors with the typical signs, one saying men and the other saying women. Both doors lead into the same space, so everybody was confused and worried that they might be in the wrong space. Sinks were in the common space and there were more doors to individual private toilets.
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this had the sink area and bathroom door access wide open so it would feel more safe.
 
Herdfan said:
What I think is interesting about this whole debate is we are living in a period where making people feel uncomfortable is not acceptable. You can't use certain words or phrases anymore because it might offend someone.
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I'm going to disagree with your claim. Making people feel uncomfortable is very popular and acceptable these days

The Trump movement....very much part of the period we're living in.......is deep into the idea that it's not only acceptable but desireable to make people, especially liberals, feel uncomfortable. The right wing is filled with anti-PC rhetoric.

And yes, right wingers will say liberals are continually saying things to make right wingers feel uncomfortable

Making people uncomfortable is especially popular online.......and if you disagree, well it's cuz you have especially small testicles :LOL:


sometimes in life, it's necessary to get over feeling uncomfortable and move on
 
Macky-Mac said:
I'm going to disagree with your claim. Making people feel uncomfortable is very popular and acceptable these days

The Trump movement....very much part of the period we're living in.......is deep into the idea that it's not only acceptable but desireable to make people, especially liberals, feel uncomfortable. The right wing is filled with anti-PC rhetoric.

And yes, right wingers will say liberals are continually saying things to make right wingers feel uncomfortable

Making people uncomfortable is especially popular online.......and if you disagree, well it's cuz you have especially small testicles :LOL:


sometimes in life, it's necessary to get over feeling uncomfortable and move on
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No, it is not necessary.

Rather, it is necessary to voice and express and articulare this discomfort.

And there are some forms of being made to feel uncomfortable - and unsafe, - that are utterly unacceptable, especially when you yourself end up being blamed for the consequences of this lack of safety, and for voicing your discomfort.

This is yet another tedious, and predictable, version of the endless lofty dismissal of women's (often very valid) concerns.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
No, it is not necessary.

Rather, it is necessary to voice and express and articulare this discomfort.

And there are some forms of being made to feel uncomfortable - and unsafe, - that are utterly unacceptable, especially when you yourself end up being blamed for the consequences of this lack of safety, and for voicing your discomfort.

This is yet another tedious, and predictable, version of the endless lofty dismissal of women's (often very valid) concerns.
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yes it is necessary, and no it's not "another tedious, and predictable, version of the endless lofty dismissal of women's (often very valid) concerns."

To the contrary; "getting over" in no way means retreating into helpless acquiescence. What one has to "get over" is viewing a negative situation as hopeless and uncorrectable.
 
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