WSJ Tells Dr. Jill Biden to drop the Dr...because it's in Education.

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Gutwrench said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. I clearly spoke about my opinion of the use of honorific. You brought up FOX for some reason. I’ve only read the editorial by Joseph Epstein that the WSJ published.

You claimed the WSJ would not have run the editorial if Biden was a conservative. You‘re right CNN would have run it instead. Wasn’t your point that politics permeates the news?
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Talk about deflection man... this is laughable.
 
Gutwrench said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. I clearly spoke about my opinion of the use of honorific. You brought up FOX for some reason. I’ve only read the editorial by Joseph Epstein that the WSJ published.

You claimed the WSJ would not have run the editorial if Biden was a conservative. You‘re right CNN would have run it instead. Wasn’t your point that politics permeates the news?
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I concur. This wouldn't fly with CNN. Also, the editorial is blatantly sexist and ridiculously tangential too.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Agreed.



Actually, I beg to differ, as the gendered nature of the condescension is the very point - the whole point - of the exercise.

A man would not be attacked thus, (in my teaching days, one of the people I briefly worked for was a boorish, alcoholic, and yes, exceptionally misogynistic male professor whose office door bore the unforgettable legend "Dr ------ MA Ph.D", which nobody remarked upon but which left me gobsmacked), not unless he was - or is - from a minority ethnic group, or from a lower class, background.
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It's hard for me to picture this as a similar situation, unless the professor's work had some relation to a general hatred of women (textbook definition of misogyny, although the term is casually used today for any kind of sexism which happens to impact women).

Hannity isn't an academic, and I don't think his behavior is particularly incidental. Hannity's behavior is clearly tuned in favor of ratings rather than personal belief. If he thought rambling on about Joe Biden rather than Jill Biden would be better for his ratings, I don't think you wouldn't hear anything more about her.
 
thekev said:
It's hard for me to picture this as a similar situation, unless the professor's work had some relation to a general hatred of women (textbook definition of misogyny, although the term is casually used today for any kind of sexism which happens to impact women).

Hannity isn't an academic, and I don't think his behavior is particularly incidental. Hannity's behavior is clearly tuned in favor of ratings rather than personal belief. If he thought rambling on about Joe Biden rather than Jill Biden would be better for his ratings, I don't think you wouldn't hear anything more about her.
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I think it is hard for some men to understand - or even recognise - misogyny; they don't get to experience it, and it rarely has any sort of direct impact on their lives.

Well, re that particular professor, I recall a conference on women's issues, where every single invited speaker was male, - the only women in the room were the staff who poured the tea - and that particular professor thought it hilarious; granted, this was a number of decades ago.

In the year following his appointment, every single woman on the academic staff of that department who wasn't tenured was let go, and were all replaced by young men, who were not as qualified as the women whose contracts were not renewed.

However, I did think that the legend on his office, where he mentioned his title (Dr) and his degrees (Ph.D and MA) ludicrous, and was never remarked upon by his male colleagues.

Back to Dr Biden, I really think that some men (and, yes, we are talking about white men, here) are extraordinarily threatened by accomplished, educated and qualified women, and that is what this is about.
 
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Alli said:
I’ve never known of a superintendent to use “doctor” unless he or she HAD a doctorate. For instance the current superintendent of our district has no Ph.D. Nor does he have an Ed.D. So he is always called Mr. It’s all he’s entitled to.
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Yes, the superintendent had a doctorate.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
I think it is hard for some men to understand - or even recognise - misogyny; they don't get to experience it, and it rarely has any sort of impact own their lives.
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Speaking for myself only, I can't say I notice everyone else's problems. I wouldn't limit that to issues of misogyny though..

Scepticalscribe said:
Well, re that particular professor, I recall a conference on women's issues, where every single invited speaker was male, - the only women in the room were the staff who poured the tea - and that particular professor thought it hilarious; granted, this was a number of decades ago.

In the year following his appointment, every single woman on the academic staff of that department who wasn't tenured was let go, and were all replaced by young men, who were not as qualified as the women whose contracts were not renewed.

However, I did think that the legend on his office, where he mentioned his title (Dr) and his degrees (Ph.D and MA) ludicrous, and was never remarked upon by his male colleagues.

Back to Dr Biden, I really think that some men (and, yes, we are talking about white men, here) are extraordinarily threatened by accomplished, educated and qualified women, and that is what this is about.
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I never know how to comment on this stuff where I can't personally relate to the sentiment (feeling threatened by the accomplishments of others). The only point I wanted to distinguish with respect to Hannity is that he leverages negative sentiment for ratings. If he couldn't get ratings from his nonsense rant about Jill Biden, he would just move onto something else. That's what pundits do, at least in the US.
 
Alli said:
In that case he has earned the right to be called Dr. I hope you all understand that (hopefully) this time next year, you’ll all have to start calling me Dr. :p
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And nobody will argue that so long as you aren't running for office and a bunch of petulant right wing low-lifes decide to launch a smear campaign against you for it.
 
thekev said:
Speaking for myself only, I can't say I notice everyone else's problems. I wouldn't limit that to issues of misogyny though..



I never know how to comment on this stuff where I can't personally relate to the sentiment (feeling threatened by the accomplishments of others). The only point I wanted to distinguish with respect to Hannity is that he leverages negative sentiment for ratings. If he couldn't get ratings from his nonsense rant about Jill Biden, he would just move onto something else. That's what pundits do, at least in the US.
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When looking at stuff such as language, culture, gender, ethnicity, society, social class, - and when looking at how a particular society (and political culture) chooses to define itself and to describe itself - it is very instructive to see what is insulted in that culture and to try to ask yourself why.

Men tend to be insulted as individuals, whereas for groups who are less powerful, because they are less powerful (and the dominant group - yes, middle class & upper class white males, preferably heterosexual in orientation) and because the more powerful define themselves in terms of who they are not, insults are directed at these groups, as group slurs or insults. The mere fact of being born in, or belonging to, one of these lesser groups is what lies at the core of the insult, (and belief that they are - by definition - lesser, inferior and should be subordinate).

Now, the precise form such inuits (and beliefs) take depends on the particular society.

In the UK, for example, some of the nastiest and most offensive stuff is aimed at, directed at, targeted at, at social class, which is a more salient division in that society than is ethnicity, or race (though the latter most certainly exists, - female and male MPs who are black have been stopped by the police "because you couldn't be driving that kind of car", black barristers have been treated as though they were the defendant by both court officers and the police and so on, ad nauseam) - although when both intersect, or collide, the results are positively putrid, whereas in the US, race is the original political sin that has beset the sense of identity and sense of self worth of the state since the Founding Fathers thought that Enlightenment values should have political expression over two centuries ago.

However, re gender, the very fact of being a woman - "throwing like a girl", where the simple fact of being "like a girl" is the insult - is deemed an insult to a man, especially a man who defines himself strongly in terms of gender, and - to be perfectly candid - this tendency seems to be a lot more pronounced in the US, where women who decline to mask their intelligence, or hide their educational credentials - especially if they come from lower class backgrounds, or are women of colour - are seen as a threat by some men.

I recall not just the awful election of 2016 (and, while Secretary Clinton did indeed carry some hefty baggage, the mere fact of her gender gave rise to a degree of misogyny I have yet to see in western Europe, and while there were many reasons which meant that she failed to gain election, the fact of her gender, and the misogyny that gave rise to, was undoubtedly one of them), but also, the inchoate the rage, two decades earlier, when then Hillary Rodham - a successful lawyer in her own right - expressed doubts about taking her husband's surname, as she wished to be known by her own name.

Moreover, I recall the incredibly vicious venom with which Michelle Obama - a formidable, exceptionally intelligent, and supremely well qualified individual, someone of dignity, grace, and sheer class - a threatening fusion of ethnicity and gender to many of those who dwell on the right - was described by right wing commentators when she lived in the White House.

And I can effortlessly predict without seeking recourse to astrology or being compelled to burn animal entrails, the serious cardiac arrests and perfervid frothing reactions from Republicans if ill-health claims Mr Biden while in office, and leads to Vice-President-Elect Kamala Harris being sworn in as President Harris.
 
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PearsonX said:
www.wsj.com

Opinion | Is There a Doctor in the White House? Not if You Need an M.D.

Jill Biden should think about dropping the honorific, which feels fraudulent, even comic.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com



As someone with an MD and a PhD, this is the cringiest shit I've read in a while. A few months ago my institution sent out a newsletter about respect in sciences, and specifically that people with a doctorate degree should be introduced as doctor, even if it's a PhD or a PharmD (duh). Just to shed some light on the sexism of all of this bullshit is, unlike my wife - or in fact Jill Biden - I've definitely never delivered a child. In fact, OB/GYN was the only subject I made a challenge out doing nothing more than the absolute bare minimum to pass. I personally don't believe in titles, outside the hospital, I prefer to be called by my first name, and even in the hospital, I only expect patients to call me doctor, because that's my role there. However, there's so much cringe in a "honorary doctor" perceiving to be in the position of authority to tell someone not to be called a doctor is just so classic:

1. He feels entitled AND qualified to be able to tell who deserves to use the title doctor, and who doesn't, but he himself doesn't hold the actual title or even an advanced degree (I'm especially annoyed by people bringing up their bachelors or in this case almost bachelors from UChicago).
2. Uses old sexist tropes (a person is not a doctor unless HE had delivered a child).
3. Goes on a tangent why a doctorate in education is lesser, because there was no blood shed, and passed greek or latin. Dude.

argh.
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I just don’t understand what the beef is. PHD= Doctor, even if it’s not a medical doctor, so what, it is a title that infers honor for a high degree of learning. Is this politically based shenanigans, or should I ask, does the sun rise every morning? :unsure:
 

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