2024 Democrat Presidential Candidates

[Herdfan]

Special counsel report on Biden's handling of classified documents released

President Joe Biden dismissed criticism of memory lapses cited in today's searing special counsel report that concluded he willfully retained and disclosed classified military and national security information.

www.cnn.com

Although constantly updating, I want to commend CNN for going all in on the scathing report on Biden's handling of classified documents.

No they didn't. Wow.

Special counsel Robert Hur’s report highlighted one of President Joe Biden’s biggest political weaknesses – questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office.

Hur’s report states Biden had frequent memory lapses during his interviews with investigators, including not being able to recall when his son Beau died or exactly when Biden was vice president, and he could not remember details of a debate over Afghanistan that appeared very important to him.

There are multiple passages in the report that detail when “Mr. Biden’s memory was significantly limited.” That forgetfulness was part of Hur’s explanation for not charging the president with any crimes.

“Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” they wrote, adding that Biden “is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt.”

Biden’s age and memory are a massive political problem for the president and certain passages from the report will likely exacerbate that issue.

 

[Citysnaps]

No they didn't. Wow.

"Special counsel Robert Hur’s report highlighted one of President Joe Biden’s biggest political weaknesses – questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office."

Just to be clear...

The above (specifically: "...questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office") was not in Hur's report, and was an assessment by CNN reporter Kyle Feldscher, correct?

 

[Herdfan]

"Special counsel Robert Hur’s report highlighted one of President Joe Biden’s biggest political weaknesses – questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office."

Just to be clear...

The above was not in Hur's report, and was an assessment by CNN reporter Kyle Feldscher, correct?

Part. For some reason I am not able to quote within a quote.

This was in the report:

“Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” they wrote, adding that Biden “is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt.”

I guess we need to get the full report to see exactly what he specifically said about:

"not being able to recall when his son Beau died or exactly when Biden was vice president, and he could not remember details of a debate over Afghanistan that appeared very important to him."

But given what Biden said this week about Mitterand and Kohl nothing is surprising. Plus I don't know how many times he has said he lost Beau in Iraq or Normandy.

Edit: More actual quotes from the report:

'He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?"), and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I still Vice President?"),' he reportedly said.

'He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.'

 

[Citysnaps]

Here's the report:

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229805332/special-counsel-report-biden-classified-documents

I couldn't find any reference to Hur having '...questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office."

That was from the CNN journalist drawing a conclusion that I suspect he's not qualified to make.

Again, for clarity... It's important to accurately reference quotes.

 

[MEJHarrison]

Here's the report.

I couldn't find any reference to Hur having '...questions over whether the 81-year-old president is mentally fit for office." That was from the CNN journalist drawing a conclusion.

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229805332/special-counsel-report-biden-classified-documents

The White House also points out the interview was the day after fighting broke out in Isreal. So not an ideal time to be recalling old facts. He probably had a lot on his mind. I'm not saying he's mentally fit, but that's an important detail to factor in as well.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I approached the CNN reporting as a low information (and interest?) voter meaning reading headlines and skimming. Based on that here are my take aways.

Like Trump, Biden knowingly took classified documents.

Like Trump, Biden shared military secrets.

Unlike Trump, Biden won’t get charged.

Biden isn’t mentally all there.

I’m sure the facts and the details will get discussed here and elsewhere, but my point is a lot of voters won’t bother going deeper than what I just summarized. And this was from a center left source. Reporting like this will hand more votes to Trump. Who needs enemies when…

 

[MEJHarrison]

I approached the CNN reporting as a low information (and interest?) voter meaning reading headlines and skimming. Based on that here are my take aways.

Like Trump, Biden knowingly took classified documents.

Like Trump, Biden shared military secrets.

Unlike Trump, Biden won’t get charged.

Biden isn’t mentally all there.

I’m sure the facts and the details will get discussed here and elsewhere, but my point is a lot of voters won’t bother going deeper than what I just summarized. And this was from a center left source. Reporting like this will hand more votes to Trump. Who needs enemies when…

Based on their headlines today, that is a perfect summary of the days events. It was a little shocking. There's a lot more there if you dig deeper. But on the surface, he sounds nearly as bad as the other guy while getting a pass for the same bad behavior. I don't believe that to be an accurate summary, but that's how some will see it.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Start with the guy who's facing felony counts in federal court in Florida for stealing, hoarding and hiding classified docs, disseminating them to his golf buddies and showing them off to journalists, and then defying a subpoena - intentionally and willfully.

Then we can talk about how bad Biden's acts were. Biden's handling is a problem, I'm not defending it, but its going to sound tone-deaf coming from the people who don't even say Trump was wrong but shouldn't be charged, but deny that he did anything wrong at all.

At the end of the day, they said "no criminal charges, even if he weren't president." That's enough, and in Biden's own words today, this thing is over.

 

[Herdfan]

Start with the guy who's facing felony counts in federal court in Florida for stealing, hoarding and hiding classified docs, disseminating them to his golf buddies and showing them off to journalists, and then defying a subpoena - intentionally and willfully.

Then we can talk about how bad Biden's acts were. Biden's handling is a problem, I'm not defending it, but its going to sound tone-deaf coming from the people who don't even say Trump was wrong but shouldn't be charged, but deny that he did anything wrong at all.

At the end of the day, they said "no criminal charges, even if he weren't president." That's enough, and in Biden's own words today, this thing is over.

Where do you fall in the "Trump did have the power to declassify those documents" debate?

 

[rdrr]

Where do you fall in the "Trump did have the power to declassify those documents" debate?

A sitting President can declassify anything. Although there are unclear rules on items marked Restricted Data or Formerly Restricted Data. Probably something that would need to be weighed in by SCOTUS.

However to claim you can declassify something with your mind isn't how it works. There is a process that has to follow, and part of that process is that it has to be communicated and marked being declassified. You just don't wave your hands and blink.

 

[Yoused]

Where do you fall in the "Trump did have the power to declassify those documents" debate?

Some of us tend to be in the camp that believes the government has way too fucking many secrets, openness is almost always better. But a select few of those secrets do need to be kept, and one person is usually not qualified to decide what is truly eyes-only. So, yeah, it is possible to be on both sides of this issue.

 

[Herdfan]

Some of us tend to be in the camp that believes the government has way too fucking many secrets, openness is almost always better. But a select few of those secrets do need to be kept, and one person is usually not qualified to decide what is truly eyes-only. So, yeah, it is possible to be on both sides of this issue.

I'm in the camp of the government is too f-ing big and needs a scalping. Secrets are surely a part of that.

 

[Eric]

Special counsel report on Biden's handling of classified documents released

President Joe Biden dismissed criticism of memory lapses cited in today's searing special counsel report that concluded he willfully retained and disclosed classified military and national security information.

www.cnn.com

Although constantly updating, I want to commend CNN for going all in on the scathing report on Biden's handling of classified documents.

No they didn't. Wow.

Actually, I was watching and they did - it was a full court press that could only rival Fox News. Sounds like you may not have watched but you would've been proud of them for this one.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Where do you fall in the "Trump did have the power to declassify those documents" debate?

It’s irrelevant, because he didn't declassify them, and it wouldn’t matter if they were declassified, the physical copies didn’t belong to him, even if they were McDonald’s receipts. When you are subpoenaed by the federal government, you comply or face the consequences. You may as well be asking me what I think of his taste in music.

 

[Yoused]

I'm in the camp of the government is too f-ing big and needs a scalping. Secrets are surely a part of that.

I say this to the Quakers on the "Left", and to your people as well: before you go smashing a large institution (like DoD, or the government in general), you have to look at what is entangled in its vines and have a viable plan for dealing with the side effects. Otherwise, you will simply have chaos and disorder, which benefits no one – well, a few do benefit, but they are often not the ones you want to benefit.

Biden owned Peter Douchy.. I mean Doocy.

The weakness Joe the President has here is that he is too practiced at being subtle. If you are on the subway and one crowd is being rowdy and "alpha" and "Yeah! Hand me another LoneStar!" and the other crowd is being calm and sly and delivering hot burns that the rowdies are not even comprehending (a few even escape you), it is difficult to guess which side of the train, all else being equal, the average person will gravitate toward.

 

[GermanSuplex]

The weakness Joe the President has here is that he is too practiced at being subtle. If you are on the subway and one crowd is being rowdy and "alpha" and "Yeah! Hand me another LoneStar!" and the other crowd is being calm and sly and delivering hot burns that the rowdies are not even comprehending (a few even escape you), it is difficult to guess which side of the train, all else being equal, the average person will gravitate toward.

Well said. The thing is, I see Biden and his slip ups, his slower walk and obvious aging. But big picture? It’s not even close. I don’t know how one could listen to Biden talk, listen to his team, see his cabinet and look at the general unity of the dems compared to the GOP, and then read Trump’s Truth Social feed or listen to his rants or court cases, and determine he’s of more sound mind.

Of the people who say ”I want neither”, your focus seems to be on Biden instead of the guy who’s both mentally incompetent and evil, as well as being as sharp as a bag of wet hair on his best of days.

Voters can pick someone else, but they don’t. It’s these two again, I’m going with the competent one and not the clown and his cult. I don’t view saying and doing anything you want without restraint as a sign of soundness of mind or mental competency.

 

[rdrr]

Well said. The thing is, I see Biden and his slip ups, his slower walk and obvious aging. But big picture? It’s not even close. I don’t know how one could listen to Biden talk, listen to his team, see his cabinet and look at the general unity of the dems compared to the GOP, and then read Trump’s Truth Social feed or listen to his rants or court cases, and determine he’s of more sound mind.

Of the people who say ”I want neither”, your focus seems to be on Biden instead of the guy who’s both mentally incompetent and evil, as well as being as sharp as a bag of wet hair on his best of days.

Voters can pick someone else, but they don’t. It’s these two again, I’m going with the competent one and not the clown and his cult. I don’t view saying and doing anything you want without restraint as a sign of soundness of mind or mental competency.

Biden and Trump are both aging. The big difference between them is that Trump is mentally deranged besides being "forgetful".

I trust that Biden has a good team around him, to whisper in his ear the name of the guest and the plus 1 along with the pertinent information. We have seen Trumps "best people".

 

[Yoused]

Biden and Trump are both aging. The big difference between them is …

the measure of grace with which they are going about it.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I'm in the camp of the government is too f-ing big and needs a scalping. Secrets are surely a part of that.

I’m in the camp that the President has way too much fucking real or perceived power which is not the way it is supposed to be. Congress needs to do it’s goddamn job which is compromise, not do nothing or obstruct everything that isn’t tax breaks for the rich and increasing the military budget. It’s not supposed to be all executive orders by the President. The only clear answer I’ve gotten on Biden failing at the border has nothing to do with laws on the books and everything to do with Trump’s executive orders…continuing them or cancelling them. Meanwhile Congress gets a fat paycheck to do jack shit.

 

[Herdfan]

I’m in the camp that the President has way too much fucking real or perceived power which is not the way it is supposed to be. Congress needs to do it’s goddamn job which is compromise,

Probably. But in reality, the heads of each Chamber of Congress have way too much power. These two individuals, who are elected by a single district or state, not the country, should not have the power they have.

At the very least, if one chamber passes something, it must at least get a floor vote in the other on whether to take it up or not and not just because McConnell, Schumer, Johnson or Jeffries et al decide they don't want to.